I'd have thought of Leiber as being a favorite author 40-odd years ago, but to tell the truth his work hasn't worn well with me and I believe I sold my Fafhrd and Mouser paperbacks many years ago. But I retain great esteem for his sf story "A Pail of Air."

Dale Nelson Wrote:
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> Leiber ... I retain great esteem for his sf story "A Pail
> of Air."

It is a good one, but really stretches the plausible. He was inventive with the use of tools and props in his stories, in entertaining ways.

Knygatin Wrote:
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> Leiber was inventive with the use of tools
> and props in his stories, in entertaining ways.

There is a fascinating climbing staff in "Stardock". I have never seen a tool like that in real life, but I am sure it could be constructed. The staff contains a big screw inside, and by turning either end it will increase or decrease in length. It can be propped firmly between two spots, such as at a rock overhang, to aid in climbing past it.

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Knygatin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Leiber was inventive with the use of tools
> > and props in his stories, in entertaining ways.
>
> There is a fascinating climbing staff in
> "Stardock". I have never seen a tool like that in
> real life, but I am sure it could be constructed.
> The staff contains a big screw inside, and by
> turning either end it will increase or decrease in
> length. It can be propped firmly between two
> spots, such as at a rock overhang, to aid in
> climbing past it.

Too late.

It was developed and marketed by shrewd speculators into a pull-up bar that fits into doorways.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Knygatin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Knygatin Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Leiber was inventive with the use of tools
> > > and props in his stories, in entertaining
> ways.
> >
> > There is a fascinating climbing staff in
> > "Stardock". I have never seen a tool like that
> in
> > real life, but I am sure it could be
> constructed.
> > The staff contains a big screw inside, and by
> > turning either end it will increase or decrease
> in
> > length. It can be propped firmly between two
> > spots, such as at a rock overhang, to aid in
> > climbing past it.
>
> Too late.
>
> It was developed and marketed by shrewd
> speculators into a pull-up bar that fits into
> doorways.


I used to have one of those! The staff in the story is however slimmer and much longer, and at either end two wings can be folded out to help screw it tight in place, and then unscrew it when you have reached the other end.

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Knygatin Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Knygatin Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Leiber was inventive with the use of tools
> > > > and props in his stories, in entertaining
> > ways.
> > >
> > > There is a fascinating climbing staff in
> > > "Stardock". I have never seen a tool like
> that
> > in
> > > real life, but I am sure it could be
> > constructed.
> > > The staff contains a big screw inside, and by
> > > turning either end it will increase or
> decrease
> > in
> > > length. It can be propped firmly between two
> > > spots, such as at a rock overhang, to aid in
> > > climbing past it.
> >
> > Too late.
> >
> > It was developed and marketed by shrewd
> > speculators into a pull-up bar that fits into
> > doorways.
>
>
> I used to have one of those! The staff in the
> story is however slimmer and much longer, and at
> either end two wings can be folded out to help
> screw it tight in place, and then unscrew it when
> you have reached the other end.

Oh, no, mine was exactly like that.

I bought it from the Grey Mouser.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Oh, no, mine was exactly like that.
>
> I bought it from the Grey Mouser.


I see. Well, good luck with that.

HAH! ;^)

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The other day I finished reading Swords Against Wizardry. Leiber is great on psychology, understands magic very well. And an expert with visuals ... his stories run like films ... excellent makeup, wardrobes, and settings. The last story, "The Lords of Quarmall", had some really bizarre deformed freaks in it, and shocking rot & disintegration of human bodies. (Not sure how much of this was Harry Otto Fischer's contribution, who cooperated with Leiber on this story. Lovecraft has mentioned in a letter that he thought Fischer probably had a greater imagination than Leiber.)

But, did I hear in it the tinkle of elfin bells? No.

I have begun reading Merritt's The Ship of Ishtar, and immediately hear the tinkle of invisible elfin bells. Therefore I think Merritt is ultimately a greater fantasist.

Do I hear the elfin bells in the work of Smith? Not sure about that. Perhaps there is something else, even greater, that lifts its fantastic components above Leiber and others.

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do I hear the elfin bells in the work of Smith?
> Not sure about that. Perhaps there is something
> else, even greater, that lifts its fantastic
> components above Leiber and others.


OK, this is a very nifty and interesting departure, K.

I *believe* I intuitively understood what you meant, and it was a very skillful metaphor, in my opinion.

I believe that I hear "elfin bells" in much (all that I've read, anyhow) of Dunsany, in the early Dunsany-esque HLP (Cats of Istar), in Eddison's Worm Ourborous, but not in CAS that I can recall, *at all*.

Am I on the right track here? If so, there is a lot of interesting stuff to explore.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I believe that I hear "elfin bells" in much (all
> that I've read, anyhow) of Dunsany, in the early
> Dunsany-esque HLP (Cats of Istar), in Eddison's
> Worm Ourborous, but not in CAS that I can recall,
> *at all*.
>
> Am I on the right track here? If so, there is a
> lot of interesting stuff to explore.


Yes, you definitely are (I have not read The Worm Ouroboros though). It is a quite evasive subject, I think. One can point toward it. But it is difficult to intellectually capture and cage in.

It's really interesting.

So to expand the list, Tolkien has it, right?, and I've not read that much in this sub-genre (Hah! "elfin bells sub-genre"! You need to copyright this, Knygatin!), so I can't easily name any more. Maybe you can expand this list a bit?

But the Cthulu Mythos, or any such works that are derivative, or expand it, have pretty much zero elfin bells, I'd guess.

I think you might enjoy The Worm Ourboros. It is the only one of Eddison's works I like, and it is formulaic, in a sense, but has excellent sense of place and an arcane and archaic vocabulary that I really liked.

"Ensorcelled," indeed!

Just the names of the main characters are worth reading.

It also has a strong sense of underlying dynastic ambitions, as in Game of Thrones, or Dune--or even The Godfather.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'd like to read The Worm Ouroboros. We'll see when I find time for it.

The tinkle of elfin bells is not my invention, it is an old expression. I borrowed it.

Not sure if it can be attached onto a sub-genre. I think it is too subtle, and really an individual matter of very special ability and sensitivity.

Tolkien? He should have it. But does he? I hope so, ... at least in some of his work, that is not outright "meat and potatoes".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 7 Mar 21 | 01:23PM by Knygatin.

Sawfish Wrote:
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> It's really interesting.
>
> So to expand the list, Tolkien has it, right?, and
> I've not read that much in this sub-genre (Hah!
> "elfin bells sub-genre"!!).
> Maybe you can expand this list a bit?
>

Depending on what we mean by it, ... but if we say, a genuine presence of faery, I would list David Lindsay's The Haunted Woman. The scene where they look out through a magic window into the past, and see a "troll" with back turned sitting on the grassy slope below, playing the violin. It totally creeped me out. (Would Pan relate to this, or is that a different kind of energy?)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 8 Mar 21 | 11:19AM by Knygatin.