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Re: A closer look at the poems of Clark Ashton Smith
Posted by: Oldjoe (IP Logged)
Date: 5 October, 2020 09:19PM
Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Much of intellectual discussion, and
> progressive analysis, is wasted time. That is my
> experience. It has led me only very slowly forward
> in wisdom. It is essentially empty. I feel, that
> the best way we can use our intellects, is through
> creativity. That gives the greatest satisfaction,
> and then we stand closest in harmony with God and
> the Cosmos.

Well said - I couldn't agree more Knygatin!

Re: A closer look at the poems of Clark Ashton Smith
Posted by: Sawfish (IP Logged)
Date: 6 October, 2020 12:16PM
Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Knygatin Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > > It destroys the magic and mystery.
> >
> > Does that happen here?
>
> That is for each one to ask oneself. I don't allow
> it to happen to me. I participate in the
> information I like and need, and reject
> superfluous information I feel is pulling me in
> the wrong direction.
>
>
> >
> > It's hard then to see what there is to discuss.
> It
> > will be one person saying that he likes a
> certain
> > thing, and another saying he likes another
> certain
> > thing. Occasionally someone will agree with
> > someone else, ...
> >
>
> Sounds pretty much like the correspondence between
> CAS and Lovecraft, when they recommended stories
> to each other.


Sawfish, clearing his throat...

"I served with Clark Ashton Smith. I knew Clark Ashton Smith. Clark Ashton Smith was a friend of mine. Sir, you're no Clark Ashton Smith..."

;^)

Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Life is a tragedy to those who feel, a comedy to those who think."

Re: A closer look at the poems of Clark Ashton Smith
Posted by: Sawfish (IP Logged)
Date: 6 October, 2020 12:23PM
Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While we are on the subject of misanthropy, here
> is my favorite epigram by CAS:
>
> “The real objection to the Darwinian theory is
> that man has not yet evolved from the ape.”
>
> I think the human intellect is gravely
> overestimated. Our perception, understanding, and
> analysis of our surroundings, is very limited. We
> can perceive only a small part, and this is
> twisted in perspective by our peculiar nerve
> sensory setup. We like to think of ourselves as
> rational and objective. We fool ourselves. We are
> animals. Our whole outlook, our judgment, and
> taste in art and literature, all of our decisions,
> are really controlled by our emotions and
> instincts. Much of intellectual discussion, and
> progressive analysis, is wasted time. That is my
> experience. It has led me only very slowly forward
> in wisdom. It is essentially empty. I feel, that
> the best way we can use our intellects, is through
> creativity. That gives the greatest satisfaction,
> and then we stand closest in harmony with God and
> the Cosmos.

This is very close to what I mean when I say that all anyone ever needs to know about human behavior can be learned by watching Jane Goodall documentaries.

This is *not* hyperbole.

CAS feels that the best use of what we *do* have intellectually is thru creativity; I differ with this since I have little-to-no creativity within me. I use my puny intellect to stay out of trouble.

That's about it. I am really good at staying out of all sorts of "trouble": financial, interpersonal, professional, etc.

You got to use what God has seen fit to give you...

:^)

Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Life is a tragedy to those who feel, a comedy to those who think."

Re: A closer look at the poems of Clark Ashton Smith
Posted by: Hespire (IP Logged)
Date: 6 October, 2020 01:08PM
I share some feelings with CAS, like his appreciation for individualism and his distaste for psychologists, so I share some feelings with Knygatin about the transcendence of creativity. But at the same time, I don't see much use in making authoritative statements about what is or isn't meaningful, or what constitutes a good or bad waste of time. The way I see it, CAS' statement that all ideologies are just candles in the infinite blackness of the universe can easily be turned against itself, even though I follow it as well. If there really is just infinite blackness, and we are all just candles about to flicker from existence, I think anyone could live in any way they please.

I'd participate more in both types of conversation here, as I enjoy both analytic discussions and listening to personal experiences (these type of conversations can be illuminating, especially here on this forum, but I agree that fanbase websites are pretty useless if you want to engage with people deeply). The only issue is an unbearably busy family life!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 6 Oct 20 | 01:10PM by Hespire.

Re: A closer look at the poems of Clark Ashton Smith
Posted by: The Sojourner of Worlds (IP Logged)
Date: 8 October, 2020 05:16PM
Oldjoe,

— How does one end up being published in Spectral Realms?

— I linked Postlude as an example of Smith's worldview. 'Hearkening now the voices of the crowd... What have you found amid the many faces?'

However, there's a line in there that says 'Your naked body on the noonlit hill'. Is it 'noonlit' or 'moonlit'? I assume it's the latter but not sure.

— Any other Weird Tales poets you like? For instance, I haven't read all that much from Frank Belknap Long but what little I did read left a very positive impression, and just recently I discovered Mary Maude Dunne Wright AKA Lilith Lorraine.

[img.newspapers.com]

Robert E. Howard is another one I'm fond of. Good portion of his poems actually sound like stories he never found time to write.

Re: A closer look at the poems of Clark Ashton Smith
Posted by: Oldjoe (IP Logged)
Date: 9 October, 2020 10:42AM
The Sojourner of Worlds Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> — How does one end up being published in
> Spectral Realms?

S.T. Joshi is the editor of Spectral Realms, so the way to get published is to send a poem to him for consideration.

> However, there's a line in there that says 'Your
> naked body on the noonlit hill'. Is it 'noonlit'
> or 'moonlit'? I assume it's the latter but not
> sure.

I's rendered as "noonlit" in all the print sources I've looked at (The Hill of Dionysus, Selected Poems, and the Hippocampus edition of The Complete Poetry and Translations). It is quite an evocative term for the phenomenon of meridian sunlight.

> — Any other Weird Tales poets you like? For
> instance, I haven't read all that much from Frank
> Belknap Long but what little I did read left a
> very positive impression, and just recently I
> discovered Mary Maude Dunne Wright AKA Lilith
> Lorraine.
>
> [img.newspapers.com]
> &user=0&id=298592974&width=557&height=2062&crop=15
> 5_2108_1550_5845&rotation=0&brightness=0&contrast=
> 0&invert=0&ts=1602015425&h=062a0573a778e97b207f077
> 34f1bf6da
>
> Robert E. Howard is another one I'm fond of. Good
> portion of his poems actually sound like stories
> he never found time to write.

Both Donald Wandrei and Frank Belknap Long have some decent poems (the latter's "On Reading Arthur Machen" is especially good), but I haven't read many other poets from the Weird Tales era. REH's poetry is on my to-read list, and I'll get to it one of these days!

Lilith Lorraine is a name that I have heard, only because CAS apparently wrote an introduction to one of her books:

[www.eldritchdark.com]

Have you found any of Lorraine's verse online or in print Sojourner? Any particular poems from her that you can recommend?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 9 Oct 20 | 10:42AM by Oldjoe.

Re: A closer look at the poems of Clark Ashton Smith
Posted by: Knygatin (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2020 05:42PM
For those of us having difficulties with grasping verse in general, I would recommend the books An Apology for Poetry by Sir Philip Sidney, and A Defense of Poetry by Percy Bysshe Shelly. They are both enjoyable reading, and open up previously closed doors, to wider vistas, for an ingrained mundane mind.

Re: A closer look at the poems of Clark Ashton Smith
Posted by: Sawfish (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2020 10:37PM
Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For those of us having difficulties with grasping
> verse in general, I would recommend the books An
> Apology for Poetry by Sir Philip Sidney, and A
> Defense of Poetry by Percy Bysshe Shelly. They are
> both enjoyable reading, and open up previously
> closed doors, to wider vistas, for an ingrained
> mundane mind.


Your recommendations raise interesting implications, OldJoe.

To me, the key difference between reading most poetry and most prose is that find that I must essentially "study" the work, virtually word-by-word, if the language is typically florid.

This in not *bad*, and can be very rewarding I've found since you started this thread--I had not read any poetry, at all, for many years.

But it does require more time, and more privacy, for me, at least. Therefore, it is less accessible.

There are more modern works that are much more direct. Have you read Dickey's "Falling"?

[poets.org]

"Death of the Ball Turret Gunner"?

These come at poetry differently than from Yeats, for example, or our own CAS.

And I recall having an undergraduate class that covered the Calvalier poets...

Your opinions?

Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Life is a tragedy to those who feel, a comedy to those who think."

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