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Re: The Super thread of literature, art, music, life, and the universe in general
Posted by: Sawfish (IP Logged)
Date: 28 August, 2020 01:19PM
Sorry. Bad link.

This one:

[www.youtube.com]

Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Life is a tragedy to those who feel, a comedy to those who think."

Re: The Super thread of literature, art, music, life, and the universe in general
Posted by: Knygatin (IP Logged)
Date: 28 August, 2020 02:27PM
Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry. Bad link.
>


WHAT!? :(


Yeah, the music on this new link was a lot more interesting.

Re: The Super thread of literature, art, music, life, and the universe in general - JAPANESE CULTURE
Posted by: Sawfish (IP Logged)
Date: 28 August, 2020 03:06PM
From previous thread...


Quote:
Knygatin
Passive-aggressiveness is part of every civilized culture. Otherwise our society would have looked like a battlefield out of R. E. Howard's Conan. In European culture the intellectual debate has evolved to sidestep violence. The more repressed communication in Japanese culture can have some negative neurotic side effects, for sooner or later energy has to go somewhere. Akira Kurosawa's films examine this, and, I am sure, so do also many modern Japanese films that I have not seen.

I think it also goes into some negative areas, like porno, etc.

That there is a lot of apparent pressure is evident, and there are many safety valves.

I am not sure that the tradition Japanese view of the emperor being a literal descendant of the sun (god), and the Japanese people are hence related, but one step removed, to the sun as well--and all this implies--can survive in an increasingly cosmopolitan and interlinked world. This was workable in isolation (and to a degree Japan seems to be drifting toward isolation, relative to the 60s-90s) but the defeat in WWII changed all that.


Quote:
Knygatin
Europeans have much respect for the sophistication of Japanese culture, especially the samurai tradition, and of course technology, have made a great impression. Likewise Japanese are very curious about Western culture. There is a polite but dedicated fanbase in Japan for almost every little obscure underground cult band or artist we have (and most of us don't even know about). The Japanese are very enthusiastic. But this extreme open-mindedness also make them vulnerable and run the risk of threatening Japanese culture, from destructive liberal capitalist influences flooding the country.

Not sure I'd consider the Japanese "open-minded" so much as seeking a solid ideal to use as a template. With the unmasking of the emperor as a privileged common man, the central mystique of Shinto was broken into a million pieces. It was as if the Pope was forced by circumstance to state, publicly, that he had never had any sign, whatsoever, from the deity. A whole lot of Catholics would be devastated, but they had at least their underlying ethnic cultures to bolster them--the Irish cpuld go back to drinking, the Mexicans could go back to worshipping Xiuhpilli, or whoever--but the post war Japanese did not have even this. They had to confront the idea that there was nothing special about them, as their mythology implied, in the bigger picture, and as insular as they tended to be, this came a a shock.

I think that they then emulated the habits/customs of the victors--who, face it, were extremely kind and generous in the context of history and of Japanese experience as victors, themselves--sort of a large scale Stockholm Syndrome. They were already about halfway there, owing to the foreign policy of the Meiji era, which emphasized westernization and modernization.

So traditional Japanese culture can semi-survive in an isolated society that does not need to compare itself to the rest of the world, but outside of this space, those Japanese who are living and have lived in a more open environment, really aren't much like those still imbued with the culture. These "transplants", like my wife, retain the *core* values, like loyalty, industry, honor, collective effort, respect for elders, but balk at the levels of male domination and social stratification of many Japanese nationals.

As always, these are only my opinions and could be wrong.

Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Life is a tragedy to those who feel, a comedy to those who think."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28 Aug 20 | 03:08PM by Sawfish.

Re: The Super thread of literature, art, music, life, and the universe in general
Posted by: Sawfish (IP Logged)
Date: 28 August, 2020 03:07PM
Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sorry. Bad link.
> >
>
>
> WHAT!? :(
>
>
> Yeah, the music on this new link was a lot more
> interesting.


I should hope so...! ;^)

What did you think?

Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Life is a tragedy to those who feel, a comedy to those who think."

Re: The Super thread of literature, art, music, life, and the universe in general
Posted by: Knygatin (IP Logged)
Date: 29 August, 2020 12:08AM
Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Knygatin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sawfish Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Sorry. Bad link.
> > >
> >
> >
> > WHAT!? :(
> >
> >
> > Yeah, the music on this new link was a lot more
> > interesting.
>
>
> I should hope so...! ;^)
>
> What did you think?


I don't know. Sounds jazzy New Yorkish, or east coast big city music. Someone else should be better suited to comment that music. It was better varied than the first link you posted, which I made an effort to analyze.

Re: The Super thread of literature, art, music, life, and the universe in general - JAPANESE CULTURE
Posted by: Knygatin (IP Logged)
Date: 29 August, 2020 05:11AM
Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From previous thread...
>

Thank you for the further clarifications about Japanese society.

Re: The Super thread of literature, art, music, life, and the universe in general
Posted by: Sawfish (IP Logged)
Date: 29 August, 2020 10:54AM
Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Knygatin Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Sawfish Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Sorry. Bad link.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > WHAT!? :(
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah, the music on this new link was a lot
> more
> > > interesting.
> >
> >
> > I should hope so...! ;^)
> >
> > What did you think?
>
>
> I don't know. Sounds jazzy New Yorkish, or east
> coast big city music. Someone else should be
> better suited to comment that music. It was better
> varied than the first link you posted, which I
> made an effort to analyze.

First time I heard it, it grabbed--it was so different from anything else on popular radio (yep, was being played on the same stations that would play Janis Joplin, et al).

I've come to view it as an episodic glimpse into a living, self-induced hell, done to a sort of dirge.

Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Life is a tragedy to those who feel, a comedy to those who think."

Re: The Super thread of literature, art, music, life, and the universe in general
Posted by: Knygatin (IP Logged)
Date: 5 September, 2020 06:55AM
I know that this thread is really intimidating. It looks like a big black hole among the other threads.

But anyway. One thing I don't like with e-books, is that many of them don't respect the author's original grammatical structure. They put an empty space in between every new paragraph, which I find very annoying. Then you don't know where the author actually intended the text to be divided into a new section. Perhaps you guys don't mind so much? Perhaps the spaces are meant to make the reading easier on the eyes?

Re: The Super thread of literature, art, music, life, and the universe in general
Posted by: Cathbad (IP Logged)
Date: 5 September, 2020 10:25AM
Funnily enough that app I mentioned - Calibre - allows you to reconfigure your ebooks. One option is removing the space between paragraphs (something I've always found really annoying) which in turn means they automatically get indented. I always assumed indented paragraphs (sans a space in between) were a European thing, whereas block paragraphs were an American thing? But maybe not? (Block paragraphs are a common feature of work emails over here).

Re: The Super thread of literature, art, music, life, and the universe in general
Posted by: Sawfish (IP Logged)
Date: 5 September, 2020 11:40AM
Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know that this thread is really intimidating. It
> looks like a big black hole among the other
> threads.
>
> But anyway. One thing I don't like with e-books,
> is that many of them don't respect the author's
> original grammatical structure. They put an empty
> space in between every new paragraph, which I find
> very annoying. Then you don't know where the
> author actually intended the text to be divided
> into a new section. Perhaps you guys don't mind so
> much? Perhaps the spaces are meant to make the
> reading easier on the eyes?

Definitely there are shortcomings, but I view e-readers like a confirmed drinker would view a small hip flask: not the optimum, nor enough, but can get you by in places where a full bottle would be--AHEM!--inappropriate.

Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Life is a tragedy to those who feel, a comedy to those who think."

Re: The Super thread of literature, art, music, life, and the universe in general
Posted by: Knygatin (IP Logged)
Date: 5 September, 2020 11:45AM
When there is a space between paragraphs, it means that there is either a change of scene or jump in time. It is a bit like new chapter, but less marked. If I understand correctly.

Re: The Super thread of literature, art, music, life, and the universe in general
Posted by: Sawfish (IP Logged)
Date: 5 September, 2020 11:52AM
Cathbad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Funnily enough that app I mentioned - Calibre -
> allows you to reconfigure your ebooks. One option
> is removing the space between paragraphs
> (something I've always found really annoying)
> which in turn means they automatically get
> indented. I always assumed indented paragraphs
> (sans a space in between) were a European thing,
> whereas block paragraphs were an American thing?
> But maybe not? (Block paragraphs are a common
> feature of work emails over here).

Hi, Cathbad. Calibre sounds interesting. I would like to ask some specific questions about it and to construct a couple of use scenarios for both .mobi and .epub files. While I'm happy enough with e-readers in general, I'm not happy about file management of the content--easy portability, etc.

I don't really care all that much about original spacing, etc. I think it's possible to butcher the spacing, and I see a lot of this, and apparently incorrect lettering from OCR scans of originals in the Project Gutenberg files, but I'm so happy to be able to have the content, gratis, that I'll blow right past it.

Besides, sadly, it appears that final proofing for hardcopy publications is slipping significantly...I see crud in hardback all the time now...

Do you have time to respond to the questions?

Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Life is a tragedy to those who feel, a comedy to those who think."

Re: The Super thread of literature, art, music, life, and the universe in general
Posted by: Sawfish (IP Logged)
Date: 5 September, 2020 12:07PM
Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When there is a space between paragraphs, it means
> that there is either a change of scene or jump in
> time. It is a bit like new chapter, but less
> marked. If I understand correctly.

It suggests a discontinuity of some kind, to me, although I've never seen a written explanation for this sort of use of whatespace, or any "rules" for its use.

Do you recognize a difference in intent between a three dot (or asterisk) break and extra space? I hadn't thought about it before, but a three dot break always indicates a hiatus is *always* a passage of time, I would suspect, and in that sense is a more forceful or explicit version of extra whitespace used for the same purpose.

I'm not a big fan of using punctuation to place ambiguity in a reader's mind for artistic effect; to me, punctuation is best as a clarifier. I would prefer to see intended ambiguity introduced thru word choice--as in Seer of the Cycles.

Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Life is a tragedy to those who feel, a comedy to those who think."

Re: The Super thread of literature, art, music, life, and the universe in general
Posted by: Knygatin (IP Logged)
Date: 5 September, 2020 12:30PM
Cathbad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I always assumed indented paragraphs
> (sans a space in between) were a European thing,
> whereas block paragraphs were an American thing?
> But maybe not? (Block paragraphs are a common
> feature of work emails over here).

Every paperback and hardcover I have read, both English and American, every book, have indented paragraphs (except the very first paragraph in a novel or short story). If there wasn't indenture in conversation text, for example, it would be impossible to follow who is saying what.

And an e-book is after all supposed to represent a book, not the structure of email communication.

Re: The Super thread of literature, art, music, life, and the universe in general
Posted by: Knygatin (IP Logged)
Date: 5 September, 2020 01:08PM
Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Do you recognize a difference in intent between a
> three dot (or asterisk) break and extra space? I
> hadn't thought about it before, but a three dot
> break always indicates a hiatus is *always* a
> passage of time, I would suspect, and in that
> sense is a more forceful or explicit version of
> extra whitespace used for the same purpose.
>

This is my understanding:

The three dots in a sentence, marks a brief stall, to let what has been said before in the sentence take root before continuing, or to make an extra mental effort to add a last thought that relates to it, and so complete the sentence. It imitates hesitation halt in real thinking or conversation.

The — sign is similar to the three dots, but marks that you are saying the last thought with strong emphasis. You want to make a strong point with the last words.

The asterisk marks a reminder of a side-thought concerning something that is related to the present text, that you would like to mention in passing, but which may be too long or distractive, so you place it at the bottom of the page instead.

The extra space means end of scene, next paragraph beginning something new in the story. Or a jump in time, for example from bedtime till next morning.

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