Thanks Sawfish, I appreciate your wisdom. I will try, try not to be so idealistic and constantly upset.

Knygatin Wrote:
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> Thanks Sawfish, I appreciate your wisdom. I will
> try, try not to be so idealistic and constantly
> upset.


Shoot, K.

I don't know what's going on. I just know that this worked for me, so far.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There are plenty of beautiful things in this world, many of them in nature, but quite a few of them hidden among concrete and seemingly desolate places. As Sawfish put it, a measly crumb to most people can be the richest feast to us, and that's all I need to be content with my life, if not sincerely happy. The world will never bow to the individual, so why spend so much time worrying about the world? I think there is greater dignity in living with it, no matter what it brings us, just as plants and animals usually have no choice but to adapt to their environment or disappear. I think that in itself is beautiful.

I suppose one reason I can't resonate so deeply with HPL is because he seems to express a neurotic fear of things beyond his control, and while I can sympathize with it I don't think I can admire it.

Hespire Wrote:
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> There are plenty of beautiful things in this
> world, many of them in nature, but quite a few of
> them hidden among concrete and seemingly desolate
> places. As Sawfish put it, a measly crumb to most
> people can be the richest feast to us, and that's
> all I need to be content with my life, if not
> sincerely happy. The world will never bow to the
> individual, so why spend so much time worrying
> about the world? I think there is greater dignity
> in living with it, no matter what it brings us,
> just as plants and animals usually have no choice
> but to adapt to their environment or disappear. I
> think that in itself is beautiful.
>
> I suppose one reason I can't resonate so deeply
> with HPL is because he seems to express a neurotic
> fear of things beyond his control, and while I can
> sympathize with it I don't think I can admire it.

Very well put, Hespire.

It brings to mind the individual's idea of "happiness". I was talking to a work friend about 20 years ago who often said that he was "not happy", which was odd, because he appeared to have the potential to bedabout as happy as I am, which to me, is really quite happy.

Over time I came to realize that what he defined as "happy", I would define as "ecstatic". Happiness to me is a lot closer to a sense of quiet satisfaction and comfort with one's self.

Nor do I trust ecstasy... ;^)

As to living with what life presents, I tend to agree, up to a point; but at a certain point flexibility becomes passivity in the face of manipulation, and for me, I don't want that, so...

A way I've envisioned it is that I've ended up living a good portion of my life like a bullfighter doing capework. Mostly keeping alert and dodging as artfully as I can.

Seems to work, is all I can say...

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As C. S. Lewis said, there are:

Things one ought to do
Things one has to do
Things one likes to do

Too often, people do things for reasons such as keeping up with the buzz, or dealing with unreal threats, or whatever. One can forgo quite a bit of life-wasting by keeping CSL’s principles in mind.

Thanks Hespire, thoughtful and subtle wisdom there.

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As to living with what life presents, I tend to
> agree, up to a point; but at a certain point
> flexibility becomes passivity in the face of
> manipulation, and for me, I don't want that, so...
>
>
> A way I've envisioned it is that I've ended up
> living a good portion of my life like a
> bullfighter doing capework. Mostly keeping alert
> and dodging as artfully as I can.
>
> Seems to work, is all I can say...


Ha, I think my mother taught me too much passivity, but I agree with you. And in my own quiet way I think I have a rebellious spirit that resists whatever manipulation it senses. I can't stand the idea of a good mind going to waste, a good person being duped, a good land developed into an empty empire, etc. In that sense you can't just sit there and do nothing. It's good we have this small corner of the internet where intelligent minds and artfully sensitive spirits can meet and potentially challenge each other.


Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As C. S. Lewis said, there are:
>
> Things one ought to do
> Things one has to do
> Things one likes to do
>
> Too often, people do things for reasons such as
> keeping up with the buzz, or dealing with unreal
> threats, or whatever. One can forgo quite a bit
> of life-wasting by keeping CSL’s principles in
> mind.


As I think I will. Thanks Dale!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 5 Aug 21 | 01:27PM by Hespire.

How sad I find the passing of time. I keep forgetting sensations, occurrences, and charged memories I have had. They pale and wither away. Slip away from me. I am left standing empty, panicking over all that was lost down the abyss of time.

Favorites I used to have, and romanticize over, making childhood wonderful, like Disney's 20,000 League Under the Sea, with the terrifying octopus and the wonderful submarine, have slowly, slowly lessened in fascination for me, until only being an empty husk. Today, when I can finally watch it, anytime, at the press of a button, it is not so fascinating anymore.

I need something for my ennui. I want to get back to the past. Relive the sensations and occurrences, correct and perfect the mistakes I made, and make those moments eternal.

The passing of time. It is a devil.

Knygatin, have you read Wordsworth? He might be a good friend since so much of his best poetry has to do with memory.

"I Wandered Lonely as a Cloud"
[www.poetryfoundation.org]

The Intimations Ode
[www.poetryfoundation.org]

The early books, especially, of The Prelude -- where we read:

"Fair seed-time had my soul, and I grew up
Foster'd alike by beauty and by fear"

Wordsworth is a poet in whose best work many readers find something of themselves.

Many years ago, a mentor-professor of mine (U. Milo Kaufmann) told me that he kept a folder(s) for records of memories that seemed to have particular energy associated with them. For example, he remembered a piano at home on which there was (if I remember what he said correctly) a piece of printed music with a decoration showing two armies facing each other, with some sort of darkness or gap between them, and this fascinated him. I've been keeping various documents on my computer with similar sorts of memories, some of them not all that powerful in themselves but evocative of bygone times.

There's a fine essay by Bill Meyers that describes a painting of a forest scene that he remembered from his younger years; there's a sort of aisle down through the trees with light at the end of it -- !

I wrote an essay, "Pictures and an Inner Vision" (sort of punning on the musical title Pictures at an Exhibition), which refers to Meyers' essay and tells about images I remember from many years ago. You will find it here:

[efanzines.com]

Scroll down to page 24.

Email me if you'd like me to scan Meyers' short essay for you. (That offer stands for the next few days for anyone else here too.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24 Aug 21 | 11:18AM by Dale Nelson.

Thank you. Dale, yes I have Wordsworth's collected poems. He is very uplifting!

Luckily we have photo albums of the distant years. It is a wonderful time machine, but also reminds me of what is lost.

But really, there as much pain and frustration in the past too. One tends to romanticize over the best. But I miss some of the innocence and enthusiasm.

But on the other hand, I would say I have access to greater art today, than I had back then. Settle down my mind! There is peace and pleasure here too! Time and change, ... it is the ultimate illusion.

Knygatin, of course our memories include times of "pain and frustration" and (I know personally) shame. My understanding is that these memories should help one to humble himself. Repentance (I'd say even to the Lord) and remorse are radically different things. Repentance is a recognition of the wrong one's done and the wrong one is and (I'd say) should bring one to the foot of the Cross. Remorse is a vain self-vexing, and a gnawing, unfruitful thing. It is, I take it, the perpetual occupation of souls in hell.

I neglected to mention that the Meyers essay is about reading Tolkien, too. It was published in a fanzine and reprinted in an issue of Fantastic under Ted White's editorship. (The issue included the completion of a serialization of Jack Vance's Emphyrio -- is that a good one?)

Dale Nelson Wrote:
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> ... (The issue included the completion of a serialization of Jack Vance's
> Emphyrio -- is that a good one?)

It was such long time ago I read it, and my English vocabulary was not so developed then. I really don't remember it. But it is one his finest regarded books. I intend to re-read it when I find the time. I have a hunch that Jack Vance has a perspective on life that is very different from your own. More coldly observant and fatalistic perhaps. For me he is a visual, imaginative author, and I read him mainly for his aesthetic weird sensibilities and fine prose.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24 Aug 21 | 01:38PM by Knygatin.

I read quite a bit of Vance many years ago -- The Dying Earth, The Eyes of the Overworld, Languages of Pao, The Last Castle, Cugel's Saga, to name the full-length books; certainly also "The Potters of Frisk" and probably "The Moon Moth." I even imitated him (or thought I did) in a story or two I wrote long ago. But rereading The Dying Earth and The Eyes of the Overworld in more recent years I've found he's probably not as much to my liking as he was. This is not to say I'll never read him again. What's your view of the Planet of Adventure quartet?

Dale Nelson Wrote:
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> ... What's your view of the Planet of
> Adventure quartet?

Again, a long time ago since I read it. It is science fiction that is more of a fantasy setting than the Demon Princes series. I have distinct memories of The Dirdir, the third one, one of my favorite Vance books. It is a science fiction horror, sort of. Very visual, the way I like it.

The three Lyonesse books are his magnum opus, a very impressive fantasy work. Richly imaginative. And has much pathos. But again, like in most of his work, there is also coldly ironic humor and fatalism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24 Aug 21 | 02:34PM by Knygatin.

What about Vance's mystery novels? I see some, at least, have a northern California setting -- which might not be so far from southern Oregon, where I grew up, went to college, & got married.