Re: Averoigne vrs. Zothique
Posted by:
Sawfish (IP Logged)
Date: 1 February, 2021 03:39PM
This is an interesting topic for discussion, Kipling.
Interleaved, below...
Kipling Wrote:
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> In "Lovecraft At Last," that since-reprinted
> classic from the 70s, HPL explains his criteria
> for "real literature" as follows: "A work is
> primarily literature when it presents events in a
> really convincing perspective,
OK, I would like to label the stylistic elements and more-or-less agree on what they are.
Here he was talking about voice and POV, I'd guess.
> with adequate
> emotional preparation for each development,
An honestly revealed plot, without resorting to gimmicks like deus ex machina, etc.
> honest
> delineation of character,
Organic character development, in that a character who seems like a hopeless neurotic does not become the savior of humanity, as in some of of the Young Adult genre...
> plausible developments and motives,
Plot?
> absence of artificially handled
> melodrama and synthetic 'adventure' cliches,
More about gimmickry.
> and
> the sort of artistic craftsmanship which uses
> language gracefully and fastidiously
Word choice, cadence, dialog, etc. General ability to construct an artful and graceful written narrative. And this does not mean that poetic devices need to be used, if it's not appropriate for the voice.
> and weaves an
> atmosphere of logical unfolding and momentary
> reality about the recorded scenes and happenings"
Plausible plot development. Logical consequences follow from action/events.
> (LAL 89-90).
OK, so HPL does little in the way of character development, although for short fiction this is not always possible. The narrative needs to focus on an event, and not necessarily a character, and short weird fiction is very often about events.
Voice is pretty consistently a sort of professorial level of conventional knowledge, a properly detached observer who has, or is becoming, unmoored due to the event(s) he relates.
HPL often focuses on description rather than plot--and sometimes plot is minimal, simply enough to explain why the POV is where he is to witness the central event, and to expound on its implications.
Plausibility in the plot is secondary, because after all, we're reading about unnatural events for entertainment. But even given that, HPL for the most part steers clear of gimmickry, I think.
It's good to add here, I think, that "melodrama" has a certain appeal because it draws a somewhat larger than life picture, with exaggerated characters and motivations, and for escapist fiction--which this is--this is why people are reading it.
So they bought Weird Tales magazine precisely because the content was melodramatic, probably.
> Lovecraft awards the encomium of
> literature to "the few choicest pieces" of CAS,
> C.L. Moore, and REH
I wonder what pieces those were. It would have helped to have had some concrete examples.
> while noting that publishers
> had frequently turned down his own stories,
> following with the self-abasing statement, "By the
> standards of real literature, I simply don't
> exist..." (87-88). Question: If such a critical
> standard exists in the minds of many (which I
> doubt) are most of the modern writers of horror,
> now as then, sub-literary? I imagine some ED
> readers have read some of the contemporary authors
> in the field, but I have not (admitting that
> "ignorance is not innocence but sin" as Browning
> said).
You're speaking to another sinner, then.
Moderns tend fall short on atmospherics, which is one of the main reasons I read this kind of fiction. They replace atmospherics with nihilism, as in the case of Ligotti, for example, or Clive Barker.
> And a second question which I hope will
> engender interesting discussions: by
> laterLovecraft's standard as given, could the
> Averoigne series as a whole be considered more
> consistently fine literature than the Zothique
> series as a whole? It's a tough call, but I'll say
> yes, going against the grain.
It *is* a tough call. For CAS, he does setting very, very well, like Ballard in Vermilion Sands. So I bought the main series settings: Zothique, Hyperborea, Averoigne. Less so Poseidonis and Xiccarph.
CAS also does a whole lot more with character development than almost anyone else is short weird fiction *of the writers I'm aware of*. He also seems to portray the cultural characteristics of each setting in a distinct manner. Simply put, the characters in Hyperorea are more vital and vigorous and a bit more optimistic than those in Zothique, and it's plausibly because of moral vigor (or decline) based on the perceived state of their environment.
So I guess I'm saying that I don't see a heck of a lot of difference, so far as HPL's criteria for worthy literature, between Zothique and Averoigne.
--Sawfish
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"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 1 Feb 21 | 04:24PM by Sawfish.