Of course it's hard to point to a single overt signal--and in truth I'm doing this partly in fun, but, you know, there's really something there.

Some years back, I was actually shocked, as much as I'll ever let myself be, by the first Viagra commercials on Sunday afternoon NFL games.

This was not nudity or profanity on the movies screen, although these of course were signs of a profound loosening of social standards. One could always make the argument, the same basic one used against Playboy magazine, et al,, that "Well, you don't *have* to buy it...".

And true enough: the raison etre for Playboy was *NOT* the articles--which were the conveniently provided fig leaf for those caught ogling the young babes on the centerfold. But this is *not* the case with Sunday afternoon, which was a sort of father/son sacramental time in the 50s-80s, and to a degree it still holds true, although less so.

So all of a sudden, a father of my age, expecting nothing much more than hero-building and mutual bonding over macho customs during these pleasant afternoons, found themselves instantly put on the spot, having to explain concepts like "erectile dysfuntion".

I can almost imagine the embarrassing dialog with a 9-year old son...

"Dad, what's 'reptile dysfunction'? Does it mean the man is having trouble with his pet snake?"

"Er, well, yes, in a manner of speaking, son...".

The apparent nadir (for the moment) was reached when single dose Viagra was being marketed to *women*, to carry in their purses. This went away quickly, and I'd suppose it indicated where the bottom was at that time. But who knows about now...?

Seriously though. I realized that *for sure*, from this point onward, if it was allowed to stand, commercial interests would take precedence over restraint and common decency, and that would be the new default.

Now it had been trending in that direction in the US since at least the early 20th C, but there was an attempt to keep it in the background, for deniability's sake. Figuratively, one could posture as a family man, all the while trying go peddle smutty French postcards. But with these commercials, on Sunday afternoons in Middle America, it was a broadside announcement that henceforth anything goes, if there appears to be a market for it. There was no longer a need to apologize for pandering; in fact, it was everyone's right to be pandered to--nor should they feel any shame or inhibition in welcoming the panderer.

I'd be interested in hearing other signal instances that you may have noticed.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Drag Queen Story Hour, in various places, is surely a sign of the times -- that publicly-funded libraries host such events in children's areas.

[www.inquirer.com]

But that this sort of thing goes on is a sign that we long ago passed a tipping point. No, we've been tipped and slid down the chute right into the cultural dumpster.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 6 Aug 21 | 01:38PM by Dale Nelson.

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course it's hard to point to a single overt
> signal-
> So all of a sudden, a father of my age, expecting
> nothing much more than hero-building and mutual
> bonding over macho customs during these pleasant
> afternoons, found themselves instantly put on the
> spot, having to explain concepts like "erectile
> dysfuntion".
>
> I can almost imagine the embarrassing dialog with
> a 9-year old son...
>
> "Dad, what's 'reptile dysfunction'? Does it mean
> the man is having trouble with his pet snake?"
>
> "Er, well, yes, in a manner of speaking, son...".
>
> The apparent nadir (for the moment) was reached
> when single dose Viagra was being marketed to
> *women*, to carry in their purses. This went away
> quickly, and I'd suppose it indicated where the
> bottom was at that time. But who knows about
> now...?
>
> Seriously though. I realized that *for sure*, from
> this point onward, if it was allowed to stand,
> commercial interests would take precedence over
> restraint and common decency, and that would be
> the new default.
>
> Now it had been trending in that direction in the
> US since at least the early 20th C, but there was
> an attempt to keep it in the background, for
> deniability's sake. Figuratively, one could
> posture as a family man, all the while trying go
> peddle smutty French postcards. But with these
> commercials, on Sunday afternoons in Middle
> America, it was a broadside announcement that
> henceforth anything goes, if there appears to be a
> market for it. There was no longer a need to
> apologize for pandering; in fact, it was
> everyone's right to be pandered to--nor should
> they feel any shame or inhibition in welcoming the
> panderer.
>
> I'd be interested in hearing other signal
> instances that you may have noticed.

That's a perfect example, Sawfish. Going back further, Frank Zappa's appearance on Saturday Night Live included a self-indulgent, poorly planned & semi-acapella diatribe against the Bible and religion in general. I thought it was idiotic, and in a sense a commercialization of anti-Semitism. I've always admired Zappa's amazing musicianship and some (not most) of his musical compositions, but that to me was a signal that uncomfortable grandstanding was now to be promoted. His singing was, to use a word he probably would have liked, wretched.

jkh

Kipling Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Of course it's hard to point to a single overt
> > signal-
> > So all of a sudden, a father of my age,
> expecting
> > nothing much more than hero-building and mutual
> > bonding over macho customs during these
> pleasant
> > afternoons, found themselves instantly put on
> the
> > spot, having to explain concepts like "erectile
> > dysfuntion".
> >
> > I can almost imagine the embarrassing dialog
> with
> > a 9-year old son...
> >
> > "Dad, what's 'reptile dysfunction'? Does it
> mean
> > the man is having trouble with his pet snake?"
> >
> > "Er, well, yes, in a manner of speaking,
> son...".
> >
> > The apparent nadir (for the moment) was reached
> > when single dose Viagra was being marketed to
> > *women*, to carry in their purses. This went
> away
> > quickly, and I'd suppose it indicated where the
> > bottom was at that time. But who knows about
> > now...?
> >
> > Seriously though. I realized that *for sure*,
> from
> > this point onward, if it was allowed to stand,
> > commercial interests would take precedence over
> > restraint and common decency, and that would be
> > the new default.
> >
> > Now it had been trending in that direction in
> the
> > US since at least the early 20th C, but there
> was
> > an attempt to keep it in the background, for
> > deniability's sake. Figuratively, one could
> > posture as a family man, all the while trying
> go
> > peddle smutty French postcards. But with these
> > commercials, on Sunday afternoons in Middle
> > America, it was a broadside announcement that
> > henceforth anything goes, if there appears to be
> a
> > market for it. There was no longer a need to
> > apologize for pandering; in fact, it was
> > everyone's right to be pandered to--nor should
> > they feel any shame or inhibition in welcoming
> the
> > panderer.
> >
> > I'd be interested in hearing other signal
> > instances that you may have noticed.
>
> That's a perfect example, Sawfish. Going back
> further, Frank Zappa's appearance on Saturday
> Night Live included a self-indulgent, poorly
> planned & semi-acapella diatribe against the Bible
> and religion in general. I thought it was idiotic,
> and in a sense a commercialization of
> anti-Semitism. I've always admired Zappa's amazing
> musicianship and some (not most) of his musical
> compositions, but that to me was a signal that
> uncomfortable grandstanding was now to be
> promoted. His singing was, to use a word he
> probably would have liked, wretched.

That's a good observation, Kipling. I forget that at some point prior to the Viagra ads, the opinions of celebrities--musicians, film stars especially--had begun to be taken as enlightened.

As to the musicians and for my generation (Boomers), I'm now thinking that because they sang anti-war songs, many of them, their off-the-cuff comments were basically given a lot more credence than they deserved.

When it got right down to it, you had people who made their livings by channeling and projecting emotional content, and hence tended to be emotion-driven individuals, making pronouncements based on emotional response and little else.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sex and violence have always been selling points for people, but today's society indulges so much in them that I'm not sure if they can be called pleasures anymore, but rather obsessions. I understand the purpose of indulgence, and there's nothing wrong with that, but its extreme commercialization feels petty and manipulative. And because sexuality and related politics have become bigger issues to so many people, it's easy to find these things promoted in popular media, especially the internet. Yes, parents have a responsibility to make sure their child doesn't touch these things, but it's not like a self-indulgent society that promotes hedonism and materialism is guilt-free.

I recall Dale posting an article about a parent praising the freedom of homosexuals flaunting their BDSM fetishes in the faces of children, which to me felt less concerned about the child as an individual soul and more concerned about forcing an emotionally-detached ideology on a malleable mind without allowing them to mature so they can learn how to handle it responsibly. If you wish to teach your child about fetishes, then fine, maybe something can be gained from that, but I think most adults are too immature, no matter how well-meaning they are, to guide someone through these things in a healthy and mindful way. I was relieved to learn that most homosexuals felt this parent was too extreme, but the fact a person like that can be given so much attention and support in the first place is troubling.

On the subject of obsessive materialism, I think the development of video games has become somewhat troubling. I won't vilify something I know so little about, but I remember a time when games were novelties you played for a little while until you got bored and moved on to other imaginative things (besides those smelly slobs that spent all day at the arcade). But a lot of my young family members are obsessed with new video games, which are so stuffed with massive amounts of content that children are encouraged to spend hours upon hours, days upon days, playing that one thing, and then immediately moving on to another extremely lengthy game. Maybe I'm not understanding something, but I feel like these games were designed to make people addicted, and to encourage people to shun the world around them in favor of a simple world they have total control over. Fun is one thing, and I encourage fun even with these new things, but it's the obsession, the time-wasting, the fear of the outside, the simplification of life, and the illusion of control that bothers me, and no matter what they say, I'm pretty sure these corporations want people to be addicted to these things. That's just business.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 7 Aug 21 | 11:52AM by Hespire.

Very well said, Hespire.

It seems to me that in a wealthy society--and this one sure is--excess is readily available in almost all things, while in an economically marginal society it is difficult to find the time or resources to engage in self-indulgent excess.

So it then follows, to me, at least, that in a wealthy society such as ours, responsible adults need to find a way to teach moderation, either directly (I don't find that this works well if you have raised your child to be a moderate skeptic, as we have), or by modeling moderation as a sort of way of life. And it seems obvious that this is essential, since mass marketing that permeates every waking instant needs to be counterbalanced in some effective way.

The more I think about homeschooling, as Dale has described, the more I think that it's probably the single most effective buffer against the pervasive crassness that's out there today, and worse, is celebrated as "normal". The term "homeschooling" carries a lot of baggage, but properly done in some fashion it seems to be the best bet, by far.

I could perceive the difficulties of sending out daughter to the public system because it was very easy to see that it was much more concerned with advancing a sort of hopelessly optimistic social agenda as a favored public policy. So I thought that a carefully selected private school was the answer--and I flatter myself to think that I *know* things about education far beyond the average upper-middle class parent, since I, myself, taught in the public system in CA for 7 years.

In fact, that was *why* I was adamantly opposed to sending her to the public system: I knew it for what it was: a social indoctrination system that coincidentally claims to cure illiteracy.

And selecting a college prep private school, K-12, accomplished this much--which was significant in one area, but failed to address the social overhaul that's so widely spread now, with CRT as its poster child: it surrounded her with very bright and gifted peers, whose parents near uniformly value education in the same way we do here at ED. So as one would expect, their kids, too, valued education in ways I never saw in the public system. This tends to bring out the best in each kid, just as playing tennis with the highest ranked players you can will improve your tennis.

But they were all taught to revile themselves as "privileged elites". Yes, indeed: Caucasians, Indians, East Asians, Middle Easterners, alike.

Ah, well. Just my opinions...

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A three books that helped to move me towards homeschooling (over 40 years ago) were Raymond Callahan's Education and the Cult of Efficiency (assigned reading in one of the Education courses I had to take), Paul Vitz's Censorship: Evidence of Bias in Our Children's Textbooks, and A. C. Harwood's The Recovery of Man in Childhood. Harwood's book is an introduction to ideas underpinning Waldorf education. I never read it all, but it deeply impressed me by its taking seriously the spiritual nature of the child and human being. I found a lot of good sense in those chapters.

Also, I knew that the normal developmental stages of a child mean that he will have a natural aptitude, even craving, for learning. This really is astonishing. Yesterday I walked past a place from which I heard the voice, I believe, of a very little girl, saying, "You almost made me fall when you opened the door."

God help us! That is an amazing sentence when you think about it. It's all about agency and responsibility for actions and recognizing the independent existence of another, and interpreting the past, and understanding the concept of things that did not happen but could have happened -- contingency, I guess. I hope you will all pause and think about this and some of the implications.

I found myself feeling like I would have wanted to use the namaste gesture if I'd encountered this small one, in recognition of what, as a Christian, I would call the divine image in humanity and in her.

Now you tell me if you have ever even once thought you've encountered a reverence for children in a public school teacher.

I can tell you that I taught a lot of Education majors in me career as (mostly) a teacher of freshman comp. Sometimes these students might "love kids," but did they have any awe, any reverence for what a child is?

And of course many religious people don't seem to possess this. I certainly fell short of it thousands of times myself as a father.

I don't mean that parents and teachers should treat kids like little "gods" and, so, turn them into brats. But education ought to take into account the amazing thing that humanness really is. That would do a lot more good than indoctrinating kids in cod-Marxism, etc.

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A three books that helped to move me towards
> homeschooling (over 40 years ago) were Raymond
> Callahan's Education and the Cult of Efficiency
> (assigned reading in one of the Education courses
> I had to take), Paul Vitz's Censorship: Evidence
> of Bias in Our Children's Textbooks, and A. C.
> Harwood's The Recovery of Man in Childhood.
> Harwood's book is an introduction to ideas
> underpinning Waldorf education. I never read it
> all, but it deeply impressed me by its taking
> seriously the spiritual nature of the child and
> human being. I found a lot of good sense in those
> chapters.
>
> Also, I knew that the normal developmental stages
> of a child mean that he will have a natural
> aptitude, even craving, for learning. This really
> is astonishing. Yesterday I walked past a place
> from which I heard the voice, I believe, of a very
> little girl, saying, "You almost made me fall when
> you opened the door."
>
> God help us! That is an amazing sentence when you
> think about it. It's all about agency and
> responsibility for actions and recognizing the
> independent existence of another, and interpreting
> the past, and understanding the concept of things
> that did not happen but could have happened --
> contingency, I guess. I hope you will all pause
> and think about this and some of the
> implications.
>
> I found myself feeling like I would have wanted to
> use the namaste gesture if I'd encountered this
> small one, in recognition of what, as a Christian,
> I would call the divine image in humanity and in
> her.
>
> Now you tell me if you have ever even once thought
> you've encountered a reverence for children in a
> public school teacher.
>
> I can tell you that I taught a lot of Education
> majors in me career as (mostly) a teacher of
> freshman comp. Sometimes these students might
> "love kids," but did they have any awe, any
> reverence for what a child is?
>
> And of course many religious people don't seem to
> possess this. I certainly fell short of it
> thousands of times myself as a father.
>
> I don't mean that parents and teachers should
> treat kids like little "gods" and, so, turn them
> into brats. But education ought to take into
> account the amazing thing that humanness really
> is. That would do a lot more good than
> indoctrinating kids in cod-Marxism, etc.


I can recognize this moment of reverence, but would point out that I've not seen the behavior that causes the reverence in an adult observer uniformly in all children. I realize that it was likely not your intent to state it as an absolute, but I mention this to raise a less appealing observation: some children either are never inspired to such processes as you described in the little girl, or this phase is so transient in them that if you blink you'll miss it.

Like most human attributes I've observed, its existence is variable according to the individual, with some being so deficient as to be negligible for all practical purposes.

I suspect that such individuals are vastly over-represented in the ranks of the homeless--and should this surprise anyone?

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

But surely, Sawfish, any child of normal intelligence exhibits that astonishing endowment of consciousness and language in some way again and again. We don't notice it because we take it for granted. One may say that at first there's just a little blob of cells in the womb. But in a few years there's a person who understands time, agency, the otherness of other people, etc. The child perhaps doesn't understand these things as some adults would. But to possess that understanding at all is, really, a staggering thing. And the child can learn. We ought, then, to revere the child and his capacity to learn and try to make about the best we can of those awe-inspiring years when the child can learn readily.

Instead we (often) hand over the child to hirelings (day care, public school), and squander those years that will never come again.

It's not that I want the little kids to be crammed with lessons. Actually, a lot of their time should, I believe, be left to themselves to structure, preferably outdoors or in a household environment with books and tools. Neither my wife nor I is handy with tools, but when my son was a little boy, he was interested in making things and I permitted him pretty free use of adult tools, etc. When he was a little older I was supportive of his taking discarded electronic stuff from a refuse bin next to a telecommunications business or whatever it was. I remember once, when I made a trip to Oregon to see my folks, he asked if, while out there, I could find a used item for him -- a transformer of some kind -- & this eventually involved a trip to a junkyard, where I was able to buy the item for him. He needed it to construct a jacob's ladder -- you know, that device with a twisting, ascending beam of light such as you see in old Frankenstein movies, etc. So I'm pretty much opposed to the regimented world of public education under teachers in whom I have little confidence, as regards their ethics, their imaginations, their learning, or their respect for the child or youngster.

Then another of my kids wanted to read big books by the time she was 11 or 12, when she tackled things like The Woman in White and War and Peace. She wasn't a "prodigy," she was just ready for books that the schools would have reserved for high school -- if then.

There's much just wasted time in the schools, and much ill from the "implicit curriculum" as well, increasingly, from the explicit curriculum, e.g. the Zinn Educational Project with Black Lives Matter.

One might look up the writings of a once highly successful public school teacher, the late John Taylor Gatto, who "threw it all away" to become an advocate of homeschooling, unschooling, etc.

[www.johntaylorgatto.com]

Unfortunately, I don't think the feelings of awe, reverence, wonder, or beauty are appreciated much at this time. Based on interactions with people, including family members, such things are seen as pretentious or illusory compared to "real" things. So much attention is given to social status, material goods, popular entertainment, trending ideologies, or political progress that I dont see much room for those subtle feelings, at least not within popular culture. Even when awe, reverence, wonder, etc. are expressed in some art or story, I notice they're among the least important elements, often giving the stage to moral lessons or half-formed ideologies. A movie will depict the beauty of a jungle only for the sake of showing how environmental destruction, and therefore capitalism, is evil, for instance.

Hayao Miyazaki might be among the few popular filmmakers to create films that portray this awe for nature, beauty, learning, imaginative children, and even express morals that aren't simply bashed repeatedly against your bloody skull.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 7 Aug 21 | 03:15PM by Hespire.

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Drag Queen Story Hour, in various places, is
> surely a sign of the times -- that publicly-funded
> libraries host such events in children's areas.
>
> But that this sort of thing goes on is a sign that
> we long ago passed a tipping point. No, we've
> been tipped and slid down the chute right into the
> cultural dumpster.

I was slightly startled when you mentioned this, because exactly this same phenomenon is currently going on in public libraries in Europe. (A mere coincidence??) Homosexual and transvestite men dressed and painted as drag queens, reading stories to preschool children, and discussing parent- and family-constellations. The latest rage I saw a report on, was a man dressed in a rainbow-colored gorilla suit, wearing a giant dildo attached between his legs; but this had received upset complaints from other library goers, and evidently the library staff finally had been unable to hold a straight face, and felt forced to tell the man to remove the penis before he continued infiltrating the children.

Hespire Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unfortunately, I don't think the feelings of awe,
> reverence, wonder, or beauty are appreciated much
> at this time. Based on interactions with people,
> including family members, such things are seen as
> pretentious or illusory compared to "real" things.
> So much attention is given to social status,
> material goods, popular entertainment, trending
> ideologies, or political progress that I dont see
> much room for those subtle feelings, at least not
> within popular culture. Even when awe, reverence,
> wonder, etc. are expressed in some art or story, I
> notice they're among the least important elements,
> often giving the stage to moral lessons or
> half-formed ideologies. A movie will depict the
> beauty of a jungle only for the sake of showing
> how environmental destruction, and therefore
> capitalism, is evil, for instance.
>
> Hayao Miyazaki might be among the few popular
> filmmakers to create films that portray this awe
> for nature, beauty, learning, imaginative
> children, and even express morals that aren't
> simply bashed repeatedly against your bloody
> skull.


I agree with these statements, Hespire, and diverge to ask: are you aware of the animated film "Mirai", by Mamoru Hosoda?

[en.wikipedia.org])

My daughter was watching it two weeks ago and I was convinced at first that it was by Miyazaki, or his studio, but then it became obvious that while its style of execution is similar, the storyline dealt with different aspects of a young person's life, and with more complexity, if anything.

I'll want to check out more of his work, that's for sure.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 7 Aug 21 | 04:58PM by Sawfish.

Knygatin Wrote:

> I was slightly startled when you mentioned this,
> because exactly this same phenomenon is currently
> going on in public libraries in Europe. (A mere
> coincidence??) Homosexual and transvestite men
> dressed and painted as drag queens, reading
> stories to preschool children, and discussing
> parent- and family-constellations. The latest rage
> I saw a report on, was a man dressed in a
> rainbow-colored gorilla suit, wearing a giant
> dildo attached between his legs; but this had
> received upset complaints from other library
> goers, and evidently the library staff finally had
> been unable to hold a straight face, and felt
> forced to tell the man to remove the penis before
> he continued infiltrating the children.

The librarians will keep their jobs, rather than being imprisoned for countenancing such a thing. Conversely, look at what does get mob action:

[www.theatlantic.com]

But I thought about the first posting for this thread. I'd suggest the Phil Donahue programs.

[www.imdb.com]

This is the first I've heard of either, but then again I don't keep up with the times as much as I should, haha. I like what I see of "Mirai", it looks like it takes its time-warping premise seriously, and also doesn't skimp on all the roughness of family life and childhood. Has all the potential to be strange, complex, and definitely interesting. I'll keep an eye out for this!

For anyone interested, Miyazaki drew a sort of picture-story book depicting a desolate, ancient world full of eerie mysteries and vanishing civilizations. It has much in common with both Zothique and Hyperborea, from its melancholic atmosphere to its bizarre creatures, and might appeal to people interested in CAS.

[www.deviantart.com]

On a note slightly more connected with this thread, I find it a shame that Miyazaki's films can be so popular, even in the States, yet no popular studios, writers, directors, etc. attempt to be even half-way as nuanced as his work. I notice when the children in my family watch most films, they'll babble over it, poke fun at it, laugh, yet whenever they catch sight of a Miyazaki film, they sit there in silent investment, and come out of it as if they were changed, whether momentarily or in the long run. Perhaps if children had more opportunities to experience films that encourage silence, complexity, beauty, thoughtfulness, and truly strange things, it would help a little to encourage them to look beyond any thoughtless crassness that gets repeated to them again and again with no explanation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 7 Aug 21 | 07:03PM by Hespire.

Hespire Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unfortunately, I don't think the feelings of awe,
> reverence, wonder, or beauty are appreciated much
> at this time.

Yes, and so some people are quietly withdrawing from mainstream culture at least much of the time. "Internal emigration." Internal secession. If at first you don't secede, try, try again.