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Frederick S. Oliver - Clark Ashton Smith Connection?
Posted by: Von Junzt (IP Logged)
Date: 29 June, 2005 07:28PM
Having just finished reading the influencial metaphysical tract/Atlantean tale "The Dweller on Two Planets" by Frederick S. Oliver, I am absolutely taken aback as to how similar in both theme and writing style this work is to that of Clark Ashton Smith, especially with regard to his Poseidonis tales. Does anyone out there know if the work, which was written in 1905 by a native Californian, no less, had any influence on the work of ol' Klarkash-Ton? If so, then this would make for a fascinating essay from one of the esteemed CAS scholars of these forums, don't you think?

Re: Frederick S. Oliver - Clark Ashton Smith Connection?
Posted by: Boyd (IP Logged)
Date: 29 June, 2005 07:44PM
I find no reference for it in anything I have on CAS but that does not mean he didn't read it.


For those interested you can read it online here:


A Dweller on Two Planets

Re: Frederick S. Oliver - Clark Ashton Smith Connection?
Posted by: Von Junzt (IP Logged)
Date: 29 June, 2005 09:48PM
Thanks for the research on your part, Boyd. I just thought of a possible way that CAS might of come in contact with Oliver's work. Well, as it happens, Oliver's "Dweller on Two Planets" apparently made quite the impression on the famed mystic Helena Blavatsky, founder of the Theosophical Soceity, who in turn is said to have influenced CAS' writing somewhat, especially with respect to his Poseidonis yarns.

Re: Frederick S. Oliver - Clark Ashton Smith Connection?
Posted by: Tortha (IP Logged)
Date: 13 July, 2005 08:38AM
I have a question about "The Dweller on Two Planets".
Is it also entitled "The Dweller on Two Planets or The Dividing of the Way"?
Are there two versions, one written by Oliver, another written by (Phylos?)? Or is Oliver writing as Phylos?
I'm confused.
Thanks

Re: Frederick S. Oliver - Clark Ashton Smith Connection?
Posted by: calonlan (IP Logged)
Date: 13 July, 2005 11:21AM

I do not recall ever discussing Oliver with Clark - however, if any of his works were in the Auburn Carnegie library, he had certainly read them.

May I take this moment dear friends to suggest that if you have any questions of this sort which might jog my memory, soon is a very good time to ask them. The medications I take relative to my heart transplant, plus just aging, are showing signs now and then of a diminution of my powers. Halfway through the Bach-Busoni Chaconne yesterday, my hands forget where to go; in a political discussion recently I couldn't remember a citation and name (at least at first). In writing a response to Phil today, my memory was jogged about Grimm's Fairy Tales, and Clark and I discussing them - I had just read a student's intriguing paper on Robert Frost as a poet of Fear to him, and that led us off - but it takes some little something to make the old memories kick in. Now is the time to ask. When I am gone, only DSF will be left, and his acquaintance with Clark was minimal, and when Don goes(though he is still in great shape at 72), the last personal intellectual contact with Clark will be gone. Our discussions were wide ranging, and the most memorable have been recorded either here, or in discussions with Scott and Ron, or in my memoir in the
"Sword of Zagan" -- but there are other matters that don't leap to the fore at first but can be evoked by your stimulating and interesting questions and observations.
I will be glad to help, if i can.
The fact that Clark and I did not discuss some writer or theme, does not, of course mean that he did not discuss it elsewhere or with someone else. You all surely know that the CAS of the 20's was not the same man I knew in the 50's, so analyses of Clark based on his early writings, will never give you a definitive answer as to where he landed philosophically.

Re: Frederick S. Oliver - Clark Ashton Smith Connection?
Posted by: Boyd (IP Logged)
Date: 13 July, 2005 03:32PM
oh come on, we are all dying, the island I live on may sink any moment, stop being such a Drama Queen granddad. But if you require prodding, tell us about CAS and woman or drugs, you know the important things.

Also did he ever read Kafka?
Say anything about Shakespeare?
Laugh at the Christians?
Speculate on life after death?
Watch the night skies for aliens?
Get freaked out by the 1938 War of the Worlds radio play?


Poke poke,
B.

Re: Frederick S. Oliver - Clark Ashton Smith Connection?
Posted by: voleboy (IP Logged)
Date: 13 July, 2005 03:44PM
Boyd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Laugh at the Christians?

Ah yes, one of the best things about being an atheist IMO. It can be such fun to watch them squirm!


*Author of Strange Gardens [www.lulu.com]


*Editor of Calenture: a Journal of Studies in Speculative Verse [calenture.fcpages.com]

*Visit my homepage: [voleboy.freewebpages.org]

Re: Frederick S. Oliver - Clark Ashton Smith Connection?
Posted by: Kyberean (IP Logged)
Date: 13 July, 2005 05:56PM
Quote:
You all surely know that the CAS of the 20's was not the same man I knew in the 50's, so analyses of Clark based on his early writings, will never give you a definitive answer as to where he landed philosophically.

Did his fundamental views on philosophical matters really change that much? I hope not. I freely confess my bias--pace Harriet Monroe and others of that ilk--that the young CAS, who existed very much "outside the human aquarium", attained a wisdom that few could achieve in several lifetimes. In any case, in these matters, as in so many others, change is not necessarily progress or improvement (much as we are conditioned to believe otherwise). A moi the "Ode to the Abyss"! *chuckles*



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13 Jul 05 | 06:04PM by Kyberean.

Re: Frederick S. Oliver - Clark Ashton Smith Connection?
Posted by: hplscentury (IP Logged)
Date: 16 July, 2005 06:59AM
Calonlan wrote:

> May I take this moment dear friends to suggest
> that if you have any questions of this sort which
> might jog my memory, soon is a very good time to
> ask them.

Well, one question I have is about CAS and his French ancestry: did he think it very important and base any of what he did on it? When you look at the picture they've chosen at this French CAS site, it's clear he could have passed for French:

[klarkashton.free.fr]

What did he think of Rabelais, Huysmans, Balzac, Gautier, Sade, Lautréamont, Apollinaire, Louÿs et al?

Re: Frederick S. Oliver - Clark Ashton Smith Connection?
Posted by: calonlan (IP Logged)
Date: 18 July, 2005 11:22AM

"Drama Queen?" - come now lad, I am no kind of Queen at all -- but I have lived already 8 years beyond expectations - yes everyone begins to die the day they are born, but rest assured, very few take it seriously - I have no fear of it at all -- been there, done that, got the T-shirt - but failing memory is worse than failing libido, or the ability to go leaping about the great stones in the American river canyon as in bygone days - I only hope to live to see the last film adaptation of the last Harry Potter book - that should give me another 20 -

As to your questions: Of couse he had read Kafka, liked it OK, but not worth a second read --
Laugh at Christians: Not per se, but folk who are trivial, pompous, self-righteous, and ignorant, officious etc. His respect for authentic Christianity (a phenomenom very few are aware of, especially those who find amusing the most potent movement in world history, from which nearly all the great art, architecture, literature and music are derived), was profound - I have mentioned elsewhere his reading of the works of Robert Graves, which I would recommend to those who have neither the time nor access to the vast library of ancient documents (most of which are not available in translation) to provide an introduction to the subject. If by "christian" one is referring to the puerile maunderings of the televangelist, had such creatures existed, Clark would simply have ignored them, save for holding in contempt those who are such blatant scam artists - I write of this matter somewhat in my memoir -

Speculate on life after death -- for amusement, Clark and I would joke about what we might like to come back as (ala Hinduism) -- in seriousness, utter oblivion in the sense of total absorption or union with the ultimate as in Nirvana, recommended itself conceptually -- the practices of that religion did not excite his interest, as the notion that one "earns" divine favor by his works made no sense to him. One must never forget that Clark's earliest exposure to life was at the late Glory of Victorian Era - If you would know what that meant to the son of and Englishman and a southern Belle, it is necessary to consult an old issue of the "Book of Common Prayer" of the Anglican church - that culture suffused society, not as something "put on" like a garment, but in the very air one breathed.
Fundamentally, Clark held self-importance, and pomposity in contempt (paricularly in journalism), but the strongly held beliefs of people of any religion? Never a subject for laughter (by which he would have meant "sarcasm", not "satire"). Clark's view was that sarcasm was born of hate, and has no desire to heal - satire is born of a love that desires to rectify or purify a good thing gone sour. Sarcasm is the most shallow form of criticism in that it requires an audience of those already in agreement to be found funny - roughly the same level of humor as that of grade school boys bathroom jokes - (which he spoke of most sadly after a day of being subjected to it by a Sully grandchild while cutting wood one day - we discussed this whole business over wine coolers that following weekend (the wine cooler was Loomis burgundy with water - half and half - over ice in a common tumbler -- in the yard at Marilyn Novaks in Newcastle under the Oaks - what good times they were.

Watching the skies for UFOS? no -

Freaked out by Orson Welles, War of the Worlds broadcast - Clark didn't have a radio, or electricity in 1938 - In that part of California, only in town was there any power.
He never lived with electric power until he married and moved to Pacific Grove. On the other hand, my parents had a brief period of alarm on that occasion - I was 2 weeks old, my recollection is dim for that event. A few years later, a radio program called "Inner Sanctum" used to scare the daylights out of me. After one particularly chilling tale, I wouldn't let my grandmother move the dial toward that end of the radio even for a month at any time of day. Radio, in many ways, worked more powerfully on the imagination that Television or film (except the films of Eisenstein,Welles, Bergman and a few others).

An additional post here asks about his "Frenchness" - Clark had seen photos of Rimbaud and Baudelaire and other writers, and his moustache and beret, vest and jacket were part of his "persona" as an artist, and adopted after his time with Sterling in the bay area - same goes for the cigaretter holder. He also "hung out" in the working class bars (the Happy Hour his favorite), and was beloved as a local character, and therefore insulated from the derision he found in the "respectable" parts of Auburn society.

Re: Frederick S. Oliver - Clark Ashton Smith Connection?
Posted by: Kyberean (IP Logged)
Date: 18 July, 2005 06:32PM
Quote:
authentic Christianity (a phenomenom very few are aware of, especially those who find amusing the most potent movement in world history, from which nearly all the great art, architecture, literature and music are derived), was profound

With which the greatest architects, writers, musicians, and artists had to make their peace, or face the auto-da-fe, or by which they were brainwashed within their culture, would be a rather more accurate statement.

Re: Frederick S. Oliver - Clark Ashton Smith Connection?
Posted by: calonlan (IP Logged)
Date: 19 July, 2005 10:34AM
Dear Kyberean - please don't waste our time.

Re: Frederick S. Oliver - Clark Ashton Smith Connection?
Posted by: Kyberean (IP Logged)
Date: 19 July, 2005 02:00PM
Calonlan:

One time-wasting, off-topic aside deserves another--or is that solely your privilege? And, please, spare me the royal first person.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19 Jul 05 | 02:01PM by Kyberean.

Re: Frederick S. Oliver - Clark Ashton Smith Connection?
Posted by: hplscentury (IP Logged)
Date: 23 July, 2005 12:52PM
calonlan wrote:

> only hope to live to see the last film adaptation
> of the last Harry Potter book - that should give
> me another 20 -

If you like Harry Potter (never read them myself), you might like some of these "HP in the style of...". There's Lovecraft, Poe, Chaucer, Sappho (easy to guess what that will be like), Terry Pratchett, etc:

The Alternative Potter

If only

Re: Frederick S. Oliver - Clark Ashton Smith Connection?
Posted by: calonlan (IP Logged)
Date: 26 July, 2005 07:46AM
Never heard of Pratchett - the others are old friends, --

My wife and I like "Harry" as a delightful spoof on English Public Schools, and the notions (prisoner of Azkaban) that the cure for depression is chocolate -
But then, we use Bombay Gin as tribute to Travis McGee

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