Calonlan wrote:

Quote:

Clark had a tidy little 22 rifle at the cabin, well worn stock. It had been his father's, and while we never shot or hunted together, Clark kept his place free of "varmints" (the area had a heavy skunk infestation in those days) - Locals at the "Happy Hour" considered him a crack shot. Whether he ever owned or fired anything large enough to bring down a deer, I do not know, yet it would have been highly likely in the earlier days since it would have been silly to neglect such an obvious and plentiful food supply. The population around him had risen to a point where bagging a deer out the kitchen window was not wise. Yet I knew him to always have around the place a number of excellent knives, and that he prided himself on keeping a good edge on them. I have no doubt he would have been more than adequately skilled in dressing meat, caring for the hide, and making venison jerky - these were fundamental skills for survival for anyone in the wild west of his era. Certainly his father would have had these skills, and Clark would have learned by observation alone, even when he was so ill in his childhood he could barely lift his head.

Thanks for that. You do bring CAS to life in a remarkably vivid way (which reminds me: "sycophancy" has a very interesting etymology). If you don't mind some follow-ups:

Do you know if CAS's interest in Buddhism influenced his thinking on guns? E.g., was he actually still hunting at the time you knew him or did he maybe stop hunting larger game?

I'm wondering whether CAS was so good at writing about the past and worlds like Zothique effectively set in the past partly because he had practical (literally "handy") skills, in a way that linked him directly to, say, the Middle Ages.

On another topic: Was CAS a serious star-gazer and familiar with the night sky? I'd guess he was, but it's something that fewer and fewer of us are able to be because of lighting pollution.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 23 Nov 05 | 06:07PM by Ghoti23.

Whatever interest Ashton had Buddhism was minimal and of little more than intellectual curiosity, and, for someone who had lived entirely from his childhood on whatever could be grown in the garden, and trapped, shot, or caught in the river, survival always trumps philosophy.
Clark was no longer hunting on his place when I knew him, as the increase in population had made it necessary to descend the canyon walls to safely hunt. I myself and a neighbor as HS Dan'l Boones had trapped and hunted the American River Canyon extensively -- small game and birds mostly - the deer by then were very wary, and I was not sure that I wanted to haul a mule deer carcass out the the canyon on my back(though in those days, I could have). The deer were abundant, however, and some people actually caught them accidentally in in jaw traps set for other game, in which case, a 22 shell behind the ear would drop them quickly.
If it was out of season, one stripped in order not to get blood on your clothing while dressing the game in order to avoid complications with the game warden. Clark was an old hand at all these skills. Fresh meat on the table always trumps the law, and in his youth there were no game laws (nor building codes etc).
Clark was very familiar with the visible heavens and quite familiar with the constellations and their movements. As kids we all learned the acronym POLAN - Pegasus, Orion, Leo, Arcturus, Navigator's Triangle (the last containing Deneb, Dubhe, and Altair, two of which my surface memory recalls are in his works here and there). There were no lights from Auburn in his early youth to mar the deep black of the night sky -- one of several invasions upon life that Clark resented to the end.
Clark possessed the practical skills of the pioneer - fixing a toaster would have been beyond his interest or need. Growing crops, making do with what nature provided, was the environment of his youth - The Montgomery Ward catalog in the Outhouse was a major technological advance over dried corn-cobs.

My apologies for causing the thread "CAS one fantastic writer" to close. I got carried away. Promise I will not discuss politics again on this forum. Except maybe from an objective perspective directly related to CAS and his times.

Years ago I often used to go a few kilometers from home with my small 2 inch refractor in a bag, to spots where there were no harsh lights. Mostly in the wintertime, I would sit or kneel in the snow covering the cliffs out by the sea.

Looking at the nightsky, in combination with some basic astronomy studies to get a sense of deep distances, time scales, nebulae dust clouds and strange material masses revolving out there, will enhance the reading of any fantastic literature. I would say it is essential to fully enjoy and appreciate Clark Ashton and Lovecraft.

Although I wouldn't recommend too much of it, unless you are mature and well grounded in everyday life. Because it will draw a perspective on all mundane things, making these seem small and insignificant, and risk leading to aloofness which might hurt social relating and professional job commitment.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 24 Nov 05 | 03:28PM by Ludde.

My understanding is that, relatively late in life, CAS developed an interest in Zen based upon a reading of the books of Alan Watts. (It is obvious, however, that he knew something of Eastern religion and philosophy long before that, as the magnificent poems "Nirvana" and "Transcendence" attest). This is, to me, a very interesting subject, one that has been inadequately addressed, and likely forever shall be. In any case, Zen can be disentangled very easily from Buddhism (fortunately, from my perspective), so I, too, cannot imagine CAS allowing Buddhist dogma to interfere with survival.

Quote:

risk leading to aloofness which might hurt social relating and professional job commitment.

And the problem with that is...? ;-) Perhaps you're being ironic. Anything that leads one to question the human aquarium, in general, and the social asylum, in particular, is all to the good, in my eyes, and, ultimately, is CAS's greatest legacy, as well. I think, too, of Sterling's magnificent lines:


Above, below, beyond, the eternal gulfs
Conserve the death that shall await all life.
The candle glimmers but an hour. The night
Looms in its ancient hunger. Would you know
The tragedy of human love and need?
Gaze on the stars, then on a brother's face!

During the years I knew Clark, whatever interest he may have had in Zen had long since abated. The "beat" poets' (pre-commune/hippie types) followers among the young at that time salted their conversation heavily with the catch words of the "movement" (zen, karma et al, ad infin., ad nauseam) and bored Clark beyond endurance. We had a couple young and earnest visitors while I was in Pacific Grove once, who whose conversation was adorned with "like, man", and "wow" - after their departure Clark commented "their pool is too shallow to swim in" - what Clark had found in marriage was a sufficiency of simplicity - "A jug of wine, a loaf of bread ... paradise enow."

The aptly named "Beats/Beatniks" sullied everything they touched, to be sure (including literature, in my view), but Zen remains above it, I think. I imagine, though, that CAS extracted what he found of value in Zen, and then moved forward.

Calonlan wrote:

Quote:

There were no lights from Auburn in his early youth to mar the deep black of the night sky -- one of several invasions upon life that Clark resented to the end.

Thanks again. I resent that too, but it's part of a wider pattern: ever-increasing noise and activity that blot out more and more of nature. And I'd guess the meat you and he hunted for yourselves was far tastier than shop-bought?

Ludde wrote:

> My apologies for causing the thread "CAS one
> fantastic writer" to close. I got carried away.
> Promise I will not discuss politics again on this
> forum. Except maybe from an objective perspective
> directly related to CAS and his times.

I don't think you need apologize for expressing your honest opinion, and tho I didn't really like the thread being closed down, Boyd doesn't have to apologize either. It's his site.

> Looking at the nightsky, in combination with some
> basic astronomy studies to get a sense of deep
> distances, time scales, nebulae dust clouds and
> strange material masses revolving out there, will
> enhance the reading of any fantastic literature. I
> would say it is essential to fully enjoy and
> appreciate Clark Ashton and Lovecraft.

Yes. But I've had the feelings simply leafing thru an illustrated book on astronomy. Le silence éternel de ces espaces infinis m'effraie.

Parenthetically, Smith's mentor George Sterling was a great hunter and marksman, who used to hunt on a daily basis to fill the pot at Carmel with fowl and small game. I remember seeing somewhere that CAS had a shotgun back in his youth--I don't know the gauge--with which he could have bagged Bambi and put some venison on the table. See SLCAS #169 to Derleth, dated July 12, 1933, wherein he mentions gunning for a rattlesnake with a shotgun loaded with buckshot. By the time WW2 rolled around, he may have gotten rid of the shotgun, since it was practically impossible for civilians to obtain ammunition during that time.
Best,
Scott

Regarding the skies that CAS knew in his youth: Ron Hilger lives up in the foothills of the Sierra Nevadas between Auburn and Grass Valley, and the skies over his freehold at night are of such a stygian blackness that the stars are positively breathtaking. Light pollution was without a doubt one of Smith's chief complaints at what he termed "shitilization" later in his life.
Regarding Zen: I am sure that CAS found certain aspects of Zen Buddhism that appealled to his rather jaundiced view of man's importance in the Great Chain of Being, but he was too much the skeptic to accept uncritically the dogma of any belief-system, be it religious or scientific! (Viz. his contempt for psychoanalysis [and what did he think of Scientology?!]) There is much more documentation pointing towards CAS' interest in various esoteric traditions ranging from gnosticism to theosophism, yet those same documents also make it clear that he found their dognatism amusing rather than inspiring. Much of the evidence for Smith's interest in Buddhism comes from one source, the late George Haas, who was himself a Buddhist. Smith would have been too polite to express to his friend any reservations that he himself might have regarding this particular belief system, and as with HPL and August Derleth's "improvements" to the Mythos, polite silence can be taken as endorsement by those so inclined.

Scott

Scott:

Aside from Haas's own beliefs, and a possible tendency to project them onto CAS, do you have any particular reason to doubt Haas's account? I, myself, never accepted Haas's bald assumption that CAS "became a Buddhist", but that CAS would find Zen itself to be of interest and inspiration, comes as no surprise, at all.

I would add parenthetically that there is really no dogma attached to Zen whatsoever, aside, perhaps, from that of those who yoke it to rigid Buddhist observations and suchlike. What makes Zen unique is that in its essence it rejects all dogma, dualism, opposites, and concepts, and thus it seems to me perfectly congruent with CAS's own thought and temperament.

Quote:
"Yes. But I've had the feelings simply leafing thru an illustrated book on astronomy. Le silence éternel de ces espaces infinis m'effraie."


Yes, books help to give an added sense. However, my own experience is that the real thing will give a much deeper dimension. It's like the difference between looking at plant pictures in a book, and actually strolling around in a parkland landscape.

At first the stars will look like small dots on a flat black surface. But as you continue, and identify what you see through the books, the objects will begin to crawl with life. And there will be a three-dimensional depth. The eyes will get keener, and capture details that were not noticed before. And there is a very subtle sense of energies travelling back and forth between object and viewer; a similar kind of connection that you can feel to a tree, or to any other object without apparent communication.

Just be sure to bundle up with clothes, and bring a thermos with something hot to drink.




Quote:
"risk leading to aloofness which might hurt social relating and professional job commitment.


And the problem with that is...? ;-) Perhaps you're being ironic. Anything that leads one to question the human aquarium, in general, and the social asylum, in particular, is all to the good, in my eyes, and, ultimately, is CAS's greatest legacy, as well. I think, too, of Sterling's magnificent lines:


Above, below, beyond, the eternal gulfs
Conserve the death that shall await all life.
The candle glimmers but an hour. The night
Looms in its ancient hunger. Would you know
The tragedy of human love and need?
Gaze on the stars, then on a brother's face!"



No, I am not being ironic. Staying in the human aquarium, with its limited perspective comforts and make-believe illusionary viewpoints and small opinions, is after all a protection from insanity and pain for us in the short and insignificant period that a human lifespan is.

Compare it to the symbolic picture of sitting snuggly inside your little cabin. Outside vicious winds, and vast cold space, press in on walls and roof. But you are not really aware of this. Instead you carefully guard your closed perspective; you sit by the warm fireplace, have your comfortable favorite chair, your other loved furniture instilled with memories and an extention of your own identity; the soft and pleasantly patterned carpet underneath your feet, pictures on the walls; you may have others of your own species (or other) at your side for social comfort; in the larder you find sweet edibles, that have grown out of your human home earth, to please your carnal taste organs; from your book shelf you can pick a favorite (and though it may deal with the pioneer curiosity for the Outside, it will still only be an interpretation, a product composed of the elements, harmonies, and carnal sense balances of our own kin. It will be nowhere near the real thing outside your cabin). You are home.

I agree that a certain measure of this imaginative questioning is healthy to get a perspective on ones sufferings. But if you want to stretch your interest for the Outside beyond the dillentantes casual curiosity, you had better be very strong and stable of mind. Otherwise you risk falling into the madness of the Abyss. You will have NO control there. And it will NOT be a pleasant experience.

If you go far enough, there is no human mind sufficiently evolved to handle it and feel at home in this larger perspective. Not even Smith's.




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 26 Nov 05 | 11:15AM by Ludde.

Quote:

And it will NOT be a pleasant experience.

Leaving aside the subjective nature of what is "pleasant", you cannot possibly make this generalization for everyone.

Quote:

If you go far enough, there is no human mind sufficiently evolved to handle it and feel at home in this larger perspective. Not even Smith's.

Even if what you say is true, and that is debatable, that fact would still not fail to make such an aspiration worth the effort.

The thread has reminded me of this by Aleister Crowley:

LIBER
BATRACOFRENOBOOKOSMOMACIA
sub figurâ DXXXVI

(Seal of A.'.A.'.)
A∴A∴
Publication in Class B

Within His skull exist daily thirteen thousand myriads of Worlds, which draw their existence from Him, and by Him are upheld.--I.R.Q. iii. 43.1

0. Let the Practicus study the textbooks of astronomy, travel, if need be, to a land where the sun and stars are visible, and observe the heavens with the best telescopes to which he may have access. Let him commit to memory the principal fact, and (at least roughly) the figures of the science.

1. Now, since these figures will leave no direct impression with any precision upon his mind, let him adopt this practice A.

A. Let the Practicus be seated before a bare square table, and let an unknown number of small similar objects be thrown by his chela2 from time to time upon the table, and by that chela be hastily gathered up.

Let the Practicus declare at the glance, and the chela confirm by his count, the number of such objects.

The practice should be for a quarter of an hour thrice daily. The maximum number of objects should at first be seven. This maximum should increase by one at each practice, provided that not a single mistake is made by the Practicus in appreciating the number thrown.

This practice should continue assiduously for at least one year.

The quickness of the chela in gathering up the objects is expected to increase with time. The practice need not be limited to a quarter of an hour thrice daily after a time, but increased with discretion. Care must be taken to detect the first symptom of fatigue, and to stop, if possible, even before it threatens. The practised psychologist learned to recognise even minute hesitations that mark the forcing of the attention.

2. Alternating with the above, let the Practicus begin this practice B. It is assumed that he has thoroughly conquered the elementary difficulties of Dharana, and is able to prevent mental pictures from altering shape, size and colour against his will.

B. Seated in the open air, let him endeavour to form a complete mental picture of himself and his immediate surroundings. It is important that he should be the centre of such picture, and able to look freely in all directions. The finished picture should be a complete consciousness of the whole, fixed, clear, and definite.

Let him gradually add to this picture by including objects more and more distant, until he have an image of the whole field of vision.

He will probably discover that it is very difficult to increase the apparent size of the picture as he proceeds, and it should be his most earnest endeavour to do so. He should seek in particular to appreciate distances, almost to the point of combating the laws of perspective.

3. These practices A and B accomplished, and his studies in astronomy completed, let him attempt this practice C.

C. Let the Practicus form a mental picture of the Earth, in particular striving to realize the size of the earth in comparison with himself, and let him not be content until by assiduity he has well succeeded.

Let him add the Moon, keeping well in mind the relative sizes of, and the distance between, the planet and its satellite.

He will probably find the final trick of mind to be a constant disappearance of the image, and the appearance of the same upon a smaller scale. This trick he must outwit by constancy of endeavour.

He will then add in turn Venus, Mars, Mercury and the Sun.

It is permissible at this stage to change the point of view to the centre of the Sun, and to do so may add stability to the conception.

The Practicus may then add the Asteroids, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune. The utmost attention to detail is now necessary, as the picture is highly complex, apart from the difficulty of appreciating relative size and distance.

Let this picture be practised month after month until it is absolutely perfect. The tendency which may manifest itself to pass into Dhyana and Samadhi must be resolutely combated with the whole strength of the mind.

Let the Practicus then re-commence the picture, starting from the Sun, and adding the planets one by one, each with its proper motion, until he have an image perfect in all respects of the Solar System as it actually exists. Let him particularly note that unless the apparent size approximate to the real, his practice is wasted. Let him then add a comet to the picture; he may find, perhaps, that the path of this comet may assist him to expand the sphere of his mental vision until it include a star.

And thus, gathering one star after another, let his contemplation become vast as the heaven, in space and time ever aspiring to the perception of the Body of Nuit; yea, of the Body of Nuit.

[www.sacred-texts.com]

Space is infinite, it is dark
Space is neutral, it is cold
Stars occupy minute areas of space
They are clustered a few billion here
And a few billion there
As if seeking consolation in numbers
Space does not care, space does not threaten
Space does not comfort
It does not speak, it does not wake
It does not dream
It does not know, it does not fear
It does not love, it does not hate
It does not encourage any of these qualities

Space cannot be measured, it cannot be angered,
It cannot be placated
It cannot be summed up, space is there
Space is not large and it is not small
It does not live and it does not die
It does not offer truth and neither does it lie
Space is a remorseless, senseless, impersonal fact
Space is the absence of time and of matter

[www.hawkwind.com]

There's a pulse in the new-born sun
A beat in the heat of the noon
There's a song as the day grows long
And a tempo in the tides of the moon
It's all around us and it's everywhere
And it's deeper than royal blue
And it feels so real you can feel the feeling...

And that's the majesty of rock
The fantasy of roll
The ticking of the clock
The wailing of the soul
The prisoner in the dock
The digger in the hole
We're in this together...and ever...

In the shade of a jungle glade
Or the rush of the crushing street
On the plain, on the foamy main
You can never escape from the beat
It's in the mud and it's in your blood
And its conquest is complete
And all that you can do is just surrender...

To the majesty of rock
The pageantry of roll
The crowing of the cock
The running of the foal
The shepherd with his flock
The miner with his coal
We're in this together...and ever...

When we die, do we hunt the sky?
Do we lurk in the murk of the seas?
What then? Are we born again?
Just to sit asking questions like these?
I know, for I told me so
And I'm sure each of you quite agrees
The more it stays the same, the less it changes...

And that's the majesty of rock
The mystery of roll
The darning of the sock
The scoring of the goal
The farmer takes a wife
The barber takes a pole
We're in this together...and ever...

[www.spinaltapfan.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28 Nov 05 | 06:14AM by Ghoti23.