Kyberean wrote:

> Calonlan:
>
> Once again, you seem to be living in a glass
> house, and should mind your walls. Your semi-vague
> allusions are also most offensive.

Come on, let's none of us take it too seriously. You and Calonlan both have interesting things to say about CAS, so don't waste time with each other.

"The Damnation of the eagle is the salvation of the barnyard fowl"
CAS in Poems and Apothegms.

Ghoti123:

Fair enough. Apologies if I misconstrued your tone and purpose in posting, but I don't feel that it was entirely unreasonable to have read it in the light of past discussions.

Here's a link to information about a book that you might find of interest, by the way:

[www.amazon.com]

There are different stages of the human aquarium. The first, and most annoying, is that of the hysterically materialistic society, ruled by narrowminded commercial forces, filled with insipid conventionality and glaring bad taste. I think that probably everyone on this forum would like to jump out of that aquarium at once.

I think it was the same for CAS.

But he also expressed a desire to leave everything behind, take his soul and leave body and Earth altogether. This shows in the prose poem "To the Daemon", where he is weary of everything manifested. He also states it in letters to Lovecraft. Was this his firm standpoint, or perhaps a passing frustration in younger years, or just a playful experimenting with dreamy images? This weariness returns throughout his writings.


Calonlan,

How did you experience CAS in this regard, and what did he say about the matter. Was he so weary and frustrated with Earthly life, finding it's experiences so conventional and worn that he badly wanted to be somewhere else? Did he look that way? Or did he light up, and outwardly clearly show signs of enjoying things like the sight of a tree, flower, or the taste of a glass of wine, or company?

Kyberean wrote:

> Ghoti123:
>
> Fair enough. Apologies if I misconstrued your tone
> and purpose in posting, but I don't feel that it
> was entirely unreasonable to have read it in the
> light of past discussions.
>
> Here's a link to information about a book that you
> might find of interest, by the way:

Quote:

Nietzsche and Buddhism: A Study in Nihilism and Ironic Affinities, by Robert G. Morrison
Morrison offers an illuminating study of two linked traditions that have figured prominently in twentieth-century thought: Buddhism and the philosophy of Nietzsche. Nietzsche admired Buddhism, but saw it as a dangerously nihilistic religion; he forged his own affirmative philosophy in reaction against the nihilism that he feared would overwhelm Europe. Morrison shows that Nietzsche's influential view of Buddhism was mistaken, and that far from being nihilistic, it has notable and perhaps surprising affinities with Nietzsche's own project of the transvaluation of all values.

It does look interesting, but it also confirms what I think about certain kinds of philosophy being crypto-religious: they attract ever more convoluted and contradictory commentary and exegesis. One quote on the topic:

Quote:

In a world where education is predominantly verbal, highly educated people find it all but impossible to pay serious attention to anything but words and notions. There is always money for, there are always doctorates in, the learned foolery of research into what, for scholars, is the all-important problem: Who influenced whom to say what when?
The Doors of Perception, Aldous Huxley

And another on Nietzsche specifically:

Quote:

"As I am no longer in your employment, sir, I can speak freely without appearing to take a liberty. In my opinion you and Lady Florence were quite unsuitably matched. Her ladyship is of a highly determined and arbitrary temperament, quite opposed to your own. I was in Lord Worplesdon's service for nearly a year, during which time I had ample opportunities of studying her ladyship. The opinion of the servants' hall was far from favourable to her. Her ladyship's temper caused a good deal of adverse comment among us. It was at times quite impossible. You would not have been happy, sir!"
"Get out!"

"I think you would also have found her educational methods a little trying, sir. I have glanced at the book her ladyship gave you--it has been lying on your table since our arrival--and it is, in my opinion, quite unsuitable. You would not have enjoyed it. And I have it from her ladyship's own maid, who happened to overhear a conversation between her ladyship and one of the gentlemen staying here--Mr. Maxwell, who is employed in an editorial capacity by one of the reviews--that it was her intention to start you almost immediately upon Nietzsche. You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound."

"Get out!"

("Jeeves Takes Charge", P.G. Wodehouse)

But Bertie Wooster soon realizes Jeeves is right.

Quote:

("Jeeves Takes Charge", P.G. Wodehouse)

A pricelessly amusing, but, in its substance, very typical Anglo-Saxon reaction to Nietzsche; the roast beefs never did know what to make of old Fritz! I believe that they also hold him somewhat responsible for the bombs that serenaded their neighborhoods during the 1940's....


The Morrison book isn't convoluted, at all. It's quite lucid, straightforward, and illuminating. That's a rare trifecta for an academic work.


You really should give Nietzsche a try, some time. He's as critical of metaphysics, mere language games, and philosophy's pretences to truth-seeking as you are.


Anyway, enough off-topic posting, in this thread, at least.... I'll simply add that the references to Nietzsche in my earlier lengthy post were merely to clarify my view of the idea of the "human race", its alleged exalted status, and the like, and its relation to the cosmic perspective as I understand it.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30 Nov 05 | 07:45PM by Kyberean.

There is much about Nietzche in the discussion. I can't contribute since I don't know much about him. There was an English TV-series a couple of years back, about psychology and philosophy, led by a bright young man with high hairline. One episode was about Nietzche, and I thought he had very sound ideas. I know that he is a giant. Lovecraft was fond of him, but didn't swallow him whole.

There was a rather agressive music band called Death. In their last album they had the following interesting citation from Nietzche:

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into the Abyss, the Abyss looks into you."

For some reason I have never been very interested in pure philosophy. It's too dry. I bought some books by Plato, and Aristotle (On Poetry and Style). Interesting. But dry. I never got around to finishing them. I am more interested in natural sciences and art. That's where I find my own "philosophy". Art is more complex and varied than philosophy, and gives a multifaceted worldview without dogmas.

When it comes to Christianity Lovecraft has sound ideas. Its positive aspect is that it has "raised certain acts of gentleness among individuals to the level of accepted good manners". And it has kept the undeveloped masses at bay. But the meekness and humility is also weak and decadent, and has hurt us. This shows most clearly now, in Europe and elsewhere in the West, as I have pointed out before but will refrain from doing again. Christianity is an assumed sentiment, imported from the Orient. "Underneath we are still proud & warlike freemen of the North". Pagans!

Kyberean wrote:

> Quote:("Jeeves Takes Charge", P.G. Wodehouse)
>
> A pricelessly amusing, but, in its substance, very
> typical Anglo-Saxon reaction to Nietzsche; the
> roast beefs

Shirley les rosbifs?

> never did know what to make of old
> Fritz!

When you compare British with European history I think the Brits have the better of the bargain: their insularity explains both their relatively peaceful history and their unwillingness to embrace Nietzsche.

> I believe that they also hold him somewhat
> responsible for the bombs that serenaded their
> neighborhoods during the 1940's....

And perhaps with some justification.

> The Morrison book isn't convoluted, at all. It's
> quite lucid, straightforward, and illuminating.
> That's a rare trifecta for an academic work.
>
> You really should give Nietzsche a try, some time.
> He's as critical of metaphysics, mere language
> games, and philosophy's pretences to truth-seeking
> as you are.

I've re-read what Russell has to say about him in the History of Western Philosophy, and I think that's where some of my hostility comes from. But I don't think I'm temperamentally a Nitzschean anyway.

> Anyway, enough off-topic posting, in this thread,
> at least....

It's not necessarily off-topic: what interests a CAS fan is relevant to CAS in the wider sense, tho in this case I'm puzzled that a CAS fan would like Nietzsche.

There is a wonderful coffe table book called The Home Planet by Kevin W. Kelley. It has pictures of Earth from space, and quotes by astronauts and cosmonauts of their cosmic experiences. Truly recommended. Maybe you can look in it at your library.

Amazing how CAS, back in his time, was able to make similar descripition views of a revolving planet seen from space. I am thinking of the planetarium in The Flower Women.

calonlan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I have just
> down-loaded a rather pricey gift to myself of the
> Oxford English Dictionary

This guy must've been something in his day! I sure wish I had a complete hardcover OED (and the shelves for them).

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> calonlan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> I have just
> > down-loaded a rather pricey gift to myself of
> the
> > Oxford English Dictionary
>
> This guy must've been something in his day! I
> sure wish I had a complete hardcover OED (and the
> shelves for them).

Certainly we've had our share of petty savants and pretenders to erudite sophistication, haven't we? Pissing contests against the ivied walls of academe, to see who's the alpha effete cognoscente.

To my mind we have it much better now: we have Dale and Platypus, both of whom are very, very skilled literary students and analysts, and these are accessible and yet far beyond my league.

There are aesthetes, too, and these are much valued: you, Hespire, AV, OldJoe, others.

It's a good group.

BTW, Nietzsche is all right. He is an idiosyncratic stylist, who on top of this must be translated for many of us to read him, and then, worse still, he suggests, strongly, that conventional ideas of morality are simply convenient transient social constructs.

And the ultimate irony is that when he first published, he was criticized on his anti-Christian ideas, and now he's criticized as politically incorrect. I mean, he knows what he's talking about when analyzing a discrete phenomenon, like Freud and Marx, but becomes hopelessly confused when he attempts to prescribe policy based on this--also like Freud and Marx.

He came from a fairly conventional background, and I now suspect that realizing the implications of his stated philosophy contributed to his mental breakdown.

All in all, just another guy with a revolutionary idea, like Darwin.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> calonlan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> I have just
> > down-loaded a rather pricey gift to myself of
> the
> > Oxford English Dictionary
>
> This guy must've been something in his day! I
> sure wish I had a complete hardcover OED (and the
> shelves for them).


Oxford English Dictionary presentation

I once, early on, got Webster's Unabridged Dictionary (a veritable monster about a foot thick) from a second hand book shop. But it completely, and ridiculously, dominated my much too small, personal library; so I simply had to return it the next day. Instead I got myself a more modest, later edition, the Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary; I have been pleased with that ever since, but still miss the color illustrations from the early edition.

It's just that the OED is loaded with information about word origins and illustrations of how the word's use has changed, etc., as I understand it. It was originally the "New English Dictionary on Historical Principles" or something like that, and Tolkien worked on it early in his career. It would be a fun thing to pick up and browse in.

I'll bet CAS would've loved to have a set.

The two reference books in the library here that I've most thought would be nice to have at home are the OED and the Dictionary of National Biography, which is a British reference set about notable people down through the centuries and very appealing as browse-bait.

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are aesthetes, too, and these are much
> valued: OldJoe, ... .
>

Yes, and he much appreciates Richard Corben, and even The Residents. Clearly a man of evolved and excellent taste.

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > There are aesthetes, too, and these are much
> > valued: OldJoe, ... .
> >
>
> Yes, and he much appreciates Richard Corben, and
> even The Residents. Clearly a man of evolved and
> excellent taste.

The Residents?! Sometimes I get the impression this forum is a narcissistic fantasy that sprang from my imagination like Athena from Zeus' forehead...

Don't tell me all you people like creamed spinach as well?