Reply to Ludde from 'human aquarium' thread - specific query:

To answer you fully takes far more time and space than may fairly be yielded at this moment. However, I may be able to suggest some signposts for dealing with Clark's thought across his lifetime. If you examine the history of the US at the time of writing of any specific piece, and Clark's personal history as well as it is known, you will gain some insight into where he was intellectually, spiritually (call it what you will) -- events and circumstances often color the poems one writes. It is rare that a poem works itself out over years in CAS' case. More commonly it is an eruption following some substantive event - or emerging conversely from the drone of endless grubbing for merest subsistance. The first War, the second War, the death of his parents in turn, the 180 degree turn his own place as a young writer took from the promising pre-war period to the post war tastes - all that he cherished in language seemed to be abandoned, including the gracious (and I should add High Church Anglican) mores inherited from his parents.
One cannot emphsize enough the impact of marriage (particularly to so volatile a personality), that most mundane and earthly paradise, upon Clark. During the time I knew him (and this can be testified unto by the handful of others who actually knew him), he always delighted in a good joke, a glass of wine (or whatever - though rarely beer), the beauty of the day (there is a photo I took on the beach at Carmel in "Sword of Zagan"), stimulating conversation, the serious recitation of poetry (his, and a few other writers - Thomas, Reid, Auden, Hopkins,de la Mare...) if merely to wallow joyously in sound as meanings beyond the mere ink blots on the page suffused the very air. I never knew him to be morose in company = the only terrors he experienced were outside his home: automobiles, crowds, traffic of all kinds, noise, escalators, and all things that told of the death of centaurs, dryads, and demi-gods, of the loss of myth and tragic heroism, and the navel-gazing of all the modern arts at that time. Remember Clark was 10 when Queen Victoria died; those first years, for all the penury of his youth were nevertheless filled by his parents with the sense of superiority of manners, courtesy, and breeding common to all Englishmen of the time.
Clark had, along with the respiratory illness through which the world nearly lost him, a Byronic sense that he was born to play a major part in the world, though it was time and not death as a young man that tore him from his world of youthful promise. And it was the peaks and valleys of a life more attuned than others, chastened by hard experience that made him, in the end, perhaps the most egalitarian of men -- yet seeming somehow in himself (as Lawrence wrote in the Seven Pillars...),
apart and above lesser men. I think it was this quality that disturbed some entrepreneurs along the way who otherwise might have helped him financially -- Those who met him, and found themselves turned away and not welcomed back, could never recall a negative or discourteous word or gesture; those whom he lowed as equals knew no invitation was necessary to an ever open door. I was never so honored as when I received his last gift to me inscribed - "To our spiritual son" - and so I remain -
and this last - try to avoid imposing your own world view upon Clark's work, findng in him vicarious justification for opinions which most likely do not match his. His mind can open doors for you, yours is to go through on your own journey - he would tell you to fight manfully on wheree'er the path may lead.
Your posts, sir, are most welcome - my door is open to you

It's a rhetorical question, but I can't help wondering: Does anyone here think that CAS would have been able even to stand Calonlan as he is in his dotage, let alone express a sense of spiritual filiation? Would there have truly been a warm spot in CAS's magnanimous heart for a sententious gasbag?

(Note, by the way, the more direct--dare I say "manful"--language, above as opposed to vague, pusillanimous hints and allusions).

It pains me to stoop to this person's level, and I hate to make such a post my last, but it's clear to me that this person and I cannot co-exist in this forum. I tried to mend fences, and at least be civil, but, as his reply to Ludde last night makes clear, he was having none of it. So, I shall say my farewells, since his personal acquaintance with CAS makes his perspective and presence here more valuable than mine. I can't fathom why anyone would want to listen to him on any other subjects (How choice, for instance to be accused of "raving" by an advocate of vigilante justice, and a "Christian" one, at that!), but I leave that to you. ;-)

My best wishes to all the rest of you.

Thank you, Calonlan. Informative and interesting. This long answer satisfies my wonderings for now. I was first going to add to my questions if CAS maybe felt isolated from the rest of the world because of his genius artistic ability and because of his isolation and illness making permanent marks in childhood, but you fillad that in. Interesting part about his English manners. A good breeding of manners is always an asset!

I do have strong world- and cosmic opinions. This may seem arrogant and self-assured, but at the same time it is a way of moving forward. These views are formed from information I take in from different sources, and from my own piecing together of what I see around me. Different writers inspire. Among them Clark Ashton Smith, although I don't necessarily think that he shares my own views because of that.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 1 Dec 05 | 03:04AM by Ludde.

Your response is well noted and I think a good one. It is regrettable that our little antagonist is so insecure as to find it necessary to fulminate in this place. I feel sure you are on the right track for you - certainly no one should presume to dictate that path to another. My respect for you mounts. I am called at this moment to a Hospice patient who needs attention, but will write again in answer to your question as best I can.

Calonlan wrote:

> It is regrettable that our little antagonist
> is so insecure as to find it necessary to
> fulminate in this place.

I think there's been fault on both sides, tho I won't assign the proportions: you've been too waspish, Dr F, and Kyb' has been too thin-skinned. It's a pity you couldn't have got on better, because you both have interesting things to contribute and your posts complemented each other in an interesting way.

And if I haven't provoked you to sting me too, it would be interesting to know what CAS made of Wodehouse, and what you make of him too. Sean O'Casey (I think) called him English literature's performing flea, so Wodehouse used that (P.F.) as the title of one of his volumes of autobiography.

(I have been plagued with misspelling "that" as "taht" recently. Medieval monks used to think there was a special demon assigned to cause scribal errors, and I think I'm in need of exorcism.)

I am not interested in "sides", my patience with jejeune posturing is simply gone.

Now, as to important matters, -- I never discussed Wodehouse, nor heard Clark mention him - O'casey was admired - my memory may not serve me well at this point: who was it who wrote the great lines -- "Oh I have been to Ludlow Faire,
And left my necktie, god knows where..."

That Clark loved as Auden's Master 'n Bos'ns Song: ...some went upstairs with Marjorie, and some, alas, with Kate..."

and Cummings: "O Sweet Spontaneous Earth" with the lines "...how often have religions taken thee upon their scraggly knees, and pommelled thee that thou mightest conceive
Gods...yet true to thine incomparable couch of death, thy rhythmic lover, though answerest them only with Spring."

Such is the stuff of other writers that would bring the knowing chuckle or wise nod of agreement to his countenance.

I could not help, sad to say, observing on the front page Calonlan's last little cowardly servings of bile when I looked for this month's new contributions. This person's sheer pomposity and lack of self-insight (which includes a complete refusal, unlike myself, to accept any share of blame for the acrimony that has arisen) are so beneath contempt that they are not even worthy of comment. I will say, however, in parting, that, unlike him, I have tried to explain and defend my thought-processes and reasoning, instead of contenting myself with leaving puerile, half-veiled allusions and condescending comments that never deign to address specific points--no doubt, because their author is incapable of it. I leave to others to judge who is the "little" man here, and who is "posturing".

I apologize to the rest of the forum for propagating purposeless negativity, but I shall insist to the end that it did not begin with me, and that I tried in good faith to end it. As a reward, I received Calonlan's snide little remarks arising from his obvious misinterpretation of Ludde's comment about personal disputes. I am pleased that at least I was able to resume collegial relations with ghoti123, who has demonstrated admirable balance and maturity in this matter. You could learn something from him, Farmer.

Anyway, Farmer and I agree about one thing: It's time to move on to matters of actual importance. So, this is the truly last you shall hear of me on this forum; word of honor. Again, my best wishes to the rest of you.

Calonlan wrote:

> > I am not interested in "sides",

I meant "sides" in the sense of antagonists, not factions one has to choose between.

> my patience with
> jejeune posturing is simply gone.

"Jejune" has another interesting etymology.

> Now, as to important matters, -- I never discussed
> Wodehouse, nor heard Clark mention him -- O'Casey
> was admired - my memory may not serve me well at
> this point: who was it who wrote the great lines
> -- "Oh I have been to Ludlow Faire,
> And left my necktie,
> god knows where..."
>
> That Clark loved as Auden's Master 'n Bos'ns Song:
> ...some went upstairs with Marjorie, and some,
> alas, with Kate..."

Is this by Auden too?

There was a young queer of Khartoum
Took a lesbian up to his room;
But they argued all night
About which way was right,
And who should do what, and to whom.

Kyberean wrote:

> reward, I received Calonlan's snide little remarks
> arising from his obvious misinterpretation of
> Ludde's comment about personal disputes. I am
> pleased that at least I was able to resume
> collegial relations with ghoti123, who has
> demonstrated admirable balance and maturity in
> this matter. You could learn something from him,
> Farmer.

In case you're still reading: I think we can all learn, and have learnt, something from each other, which is why I'm sorry to see you go. But I also think you've been too thin-skinned, and Dr F has found it very easy to buzz out your weak spots.

I think this version is more in keeping with the supposed topic of this Forum.


A sorcerous vampire name dhoom,
took a succubus up to his room.
Where they argued all night,
over who had the right,
to draw away what from whom.

The girl I met in Eridu
Was kind beyond belief;
The hours that I spent with her
Were hours far to brief.

Where willows shade the river bank,
She urged that I recline.
She fed me figs and poured me full
Of pomegranate wine.

I told of force and time and space,
I told of hence and yonder;
I asked if she would come with me
To know my worlds of wonder.

She clasped her knees; her voice was soft:
"It dazes me to ponder
The blazing stars and tintamars,
The wirling ways you wander!

"You are you and I am I,
And best that you return.
And I will stay in Eridu
With all this yet to learn."

-Navarth

Boyd wrote:

> I think this version is more in keeping with the
> supposed topic of this Forum.
>
> A sorcerous vampire name dhoom,
> took a succubus up to his room.
> Where they argued all night,
> over who had the right,
> to draw away what from whom.

There'll be a young man of Zothique
Whose soul will be rather too meek;
When lamiae hiss
And offer a kiss,
He'll flee with an orthian squeak.

There'll be a young maid of Zothique
Whose tastes will be strangely oblique;
When asked by a swain,
"Shall I tup thee again?"
She'll teach him a sapphic technique.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 4 Dec 05 | 05:12PM by Ghoti23.

Boyd, excellent limerick - one Clark would have loved I can assure you.

You might post this with a link to Clark's play - it has much the same "aftertaste". yummy

What is the essence in Smith's prepossession with death and necrophilia that is to be celebrated?

I admit to relishing this part of his writing, in a morbid way.

But if I want to present his work to someone, I still show that which deals with weird creations and cosmic visions, which still celebrates Life.

Introduce them to works like "double shadow" and "Xeethra", "The demon of the Prophey",
"The Great God Awto", "Schizoid Creator" - and, above all, the poetry.
DRF