Hi everybody,

Just joined this group devoted to my longtime (40 years) favorite SF/fantasy/horror/uncategorizable writer! Very exciting.

Like others in the group, I'm looking forward to the Night Shade series with corrected texts. I have many editions of CAS work -- Arkhams, of course; Neville Spearman; Panther; Ballantine; Necronomicon Press etc. But I've been curious about the Bison releases of OUT OF SPACE AND TIME and LOST WORLDS, which I've recently seen listed on Amazon. I read that Bison uses the Nevill Spearman copyright page (1971 date), which I assume means these are simply photo-offset reprints of the Neville Spearmans, which were of course photo-offset reprints of the Arkhams. Two questions:

1. Can anyone verify this?

2. What exactly is the point of these books if they're nothing more than uncorrected reprints? Who does Bison think will buy them? The more CAS material is out there, the better, of course, but if these are just straightforward reprints, I don't know what incentive CAS fans have to purchase.

Thoughts, anyone?

Welcome to the site, it does indeed look like a direct reprint. Who will buy them? Well you did?

Cheap reprints have their place, not all publishers have the time skills ability to do something more than spit out a reprint.

Any extra attention drawn to CAS is welcome.

I did an interview for the Bison blog which was going to be published when the books were released, but my emails about it go unanswered, oh well :-)

B.

Actually, I didn't -- and wouldn't -- buy these Bison titles. I've already got the Panthers and Neville Spearmans on OUT OF SPACE AND TIME and LOST WORLDS, along with some of the stories in various other American collections and anthologies. I respect the fact that they're bringing out accessible editions of these, and other out of print SF/fantasy/horror titles, but am not sure how useful they are, or how likely it is that they'll succeed. Maybe I'm spoiled by all these corrected/annotated editions of the classics coming out (perhaps we can thank Joshi for some of this).

Anyway, thanks for clarifying, Boyd, and I have to say I'm loving this site. CAS is the best and deserves this level of tribute.

I think these Bison reprints are a fine thing. Who will buy them? People who have wanted to read CAS but haven't been able to either afford or find the other editions. These are very afforable editions and easily found. Not sure the harm in these editions, I welcome them.

Boyd, Roger,

Of course you guys are right. Guess I've just gotten greedy lately with all those annotated/corrected editions over the past few years. Anything that increases CAS's visibility in the culture is obviously good news.

BTW, has anyone here read the introductions to these books? I've gotten glimmerings that they may be a little less than enthusiastic about CAS.

The expression "Damning with faint praise" comes to mind....

Scott

garymorris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Boyd, Roger,
>
> Of course you guys are right. Guess I've just
> gotten greedy lately with all those
> annotated/corrected editions over the past few
> years. Anything that increases CAS's visibility in
> the culture is obviously good news.

Don't get me wrong... I'm eagerly awaiting the corrected texts... moreso than any book in years honestly. But these cheap Bisons will be an ideal way to attract new readers, who may very well find this forum, and in turn be led to the upcoming corrected and annotated texts!

Actually, Bison Books issued both of their CASmith books at the same time, which shows that getting info from Amazon is risky. We all do it, of course, but they goof up quite often. The last volume of Selected Letters of Philip K. Dick (1980-82) was listed as out of print initially, and it hasn't even been printed yet! There are updates from Underwood's company posted, but two dealers actually advertise used copies for sale for wild prices. Is this the kind of accuracy you want to depend upon? Hmm? We shall let the buyer (and browser) beware. I think the Bison Books CASmith reprints are quite attractive and fill a need for inexpensive books at the ready, an alternative for those who don't feel like investing in the Night Shade edition. There are many readers who are curious about CASmith but fall short of being rapt disciples intent upon the finest versions. I think that the publishers will sell their books adequately even if no CASmith fans buy a single copy.

">>I think the Bison Books CASmith reprints are quite attractive and fill a need for >>inexpensive books at the ready, an alternative for those who don't feel like >>investing in the Night Shade edition. There are many readers who are curious about >>CASmith but fall short of being rapt disciples intent upon the finest versions. I >>think that the publishers will sell their books adequately even if no CASmith fans >>buy a single copy."

The same is true about the Ballantine Lovecraft paperbacks from the seventies. I love 'em! Pure concentrated nostalgia. Their contents may make Joshi cringe, but having grown up reading them, there's a wonderful sort of atmosphere about them. I even like the Derleth "collaborations", even though now, re-reading them, I can see the huge and obvious flaws.... As a kid, I actually preferred the Derleth stories, in fact, mainly because they were easier to understand; Lovecraft used too many big words! Derleth's stories were a kind of "gateway drug", if you will --like the marajuana which leads you to become an opium fiend.....
GDC




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 5 Sep 06 | 07:10PM by Gavin Callaghan.

Too true, Gavin! I have a special fondness for the Ballantines too, but also, and perhaps preeminently (for the paperbacks at least), the two Lancer Lovecraft collections. How well I remember picking up The Dunwich Horror from the local drugstore, with that brown (I want to say sere) cover of a dried-up old man's face, at that point a total HPL virgin, and being knocked out by what I read. The follow-up volume, Colour Out of Space, with the ghost-bride cover, remains another treasure from that time. Belmont's Charles Dexter Ward was another early, fond purchase.

Eventually, though, I found CAS more to my liking and consider him not only the greatest of the Weird Tales bunch but a major literary figure. (Easier to contemplate in a world that doesn't ghettoize fantasistes.) I can read and re-read CAS;s stories forever, it seems, and do so for the sardonic tone, vivid imagery, and rich imagination. I find I don't return to Lovecraft nearly as much, except to his nonfiction (especially his amazing letters).

As for Derleth, it saddens me that he's been so maligned over the years. (Of course, Joshi, the ringleader, is a bit suspect himself -- viz. his unenthusiastic response to M. R. James) Derleth's such a seminal figure in fantasy, horror, and SF publishing that, to my mind, he deserves iconic status. HPL's sufficiently important and influential to survive all the controversies over the Cthulhu Mythos and the questionable (well, duplicitous) "collaborations," and whether or not he'd have been published by the mainstream if Derleth hadn't intervened. Derleth's fidelity to his writers -- think of all those CAS volumes he published! -- was surely inspiring. I even like (some of) his poetry!

garymorris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>[snippage]
> As for Derleth, it saddens me that he's been so
> maligned over the years. (Of course, Joshi, the
> ringleader, is a bit suspect himself -- viz. his
> unenthusiastic response to M. R. James) Derleth's
> such a seminal figure in fantasy, horror, and SF
> publishing that, to my mind, he deserves iconic
> status. HPL's sufficiently important and
> influential to survive all the controversies over
> the Cthulhu Mythos and the questionable (well,
> duplicitous) "collaborations," and whether or not
> he'd have been published by the mainstream if
> Derleth hadn't intervened. Derleth's fidelity to
> his writers -- think of all those CAS volumes he
> published! -- was surely inspiring. I even like
> (some of) his poetry!

I agree that Derleth has gotten a bad rap over the years, I have tried to be even-handed in my writings about the man, but I would hardly call Joshi the ringleader of the anti-Derleth reaction. Richard L. Tierney could be said to be the father of the anti-Derleth crowd, since his essay "The Derleth Mythos" was the first to cite the differences between the Lovecraft and Derleth world-views with the gloves off. Compared with the sometimes vitriolic comments of George Wetzel and another prominent researcher from that era, both of whom were friends of mine and who had reasons to dislike Derleth, Joshi's pointing out that Augie's respect for the Sacred Text left something to be desired is rather mild.
As for Joshi and M. R. James: I suggest that you pick up his Penguin edition of COUNT MAGNUS and prepare for a pleasant surprise. He Has Seen the Light, Hallelujah! Not only that, he and Rosemary Pardoe are editing a collection of critical essays on James (which I am supposed to be working on at the moment.... ahem.)

Best,
Scott
>
>

Mr. Connors neglects to mention his own well-balanced treatment of Derleth's handling of Lovecraft, "The Devil His Due", which I think provides a good summary of the positive aspects of Derleth on HPL's legacy -- however, I agree with Joshi that there are several negative aspects as well. It can be read here, if I'm allowed to provide the link: [members.fortunecity.com]

Tierney's essay can be found here: [www.epberglund.com]

Juha-Matti Rajala

Thanks very much for the light shed on this, Scott and Juha-Matti. I don't know how I could have forgotten Tierney, who's written some great stuff on another favorite of mine, Jack Vance (in some ways, though only some, Smith's heir).

I do think some of the vitriol historically directed at Derleth may have been related as much to his apparently abrasive personality as to his dealings with Lovecraft et al. I may be prejudiced in the other direction, as I corresponded with Derleth as a callow youth of 16, and he was more than indulgent of my teenage bitching about not having published Kuttner & Moore and some other issues.

Not to belabor Derleth on this Smith board, but I do wish someone would write a balanced biography. He's surely controversial & important enough to merit something better than the one self-published a few years ago by a fan whose heart -- if nothing else -- was in the right place.

I will have to pick up the Penguin Count Magnus to witness the Redemption of Joshi (sounds biblical). I just never got Joshi's whole "James is not cosmic!" argument. Not that I don't respect STJ utterly for his great work on Lovecraft and the gang.

>>I just never got Joshi's whole "James is not cosmic!" argument.

Well, if Joshi is judging by that criteria, Lovecraft isn't that cosmic either, for that matter! For someone who made cosmicism his speciality, Lovecraft spent an awful lot of time dwelling on human-animal hybrids, cannibalistic degeneration, evil witches, Bacchanalian rites, and semi-human ghouls. I haven't done a scientific count quite yet, but just guessing I would say that perhaps only 1/10th, at most, of Lovecraft's weird fiction ouput was cosmic, and this goes without broaching the even more tricky topic of Lovecraft's racism: as if a cosmic viewpoint is in any way compatable with bias based upon race.

The notably non-cosmic issue of women as villains in Lovecraft's fiction, too, has often been overlooked, beginning with the serpentine Sieur du Blois in "Psychopompos", and on down through the evil Cybele in "The Moon Bog", the naked vampiric nymph "Lilith" in "Horror at red Hook", the Magna Mater in "Rats in the Walls", the beautiful "ghoul-queen" Nitocris in "Imprisoned in the Pharoahs", etc.: echoes of which can be found in the "moon ladder" described at the climax of both "Call of Cthulu" and "Mountains of Madness".

>>I found CAS more to my liking and consider him not only the greatest of the Weird Tales bunch but a major literary figure.

I tend to like Smith better too, though I don't know as much about him or his total fictional/poetic output. He had greater range. Smith's works are a bit harder to find!, unless you have $$$.

>>Not only that, he and Rosemary Pardoe are editing a collection of critical essays on James (which I am supposed to be working on at the moment.... ahem.)

I recently came across a two-page article on M. R. James in a Fortean publication, a few months ago. I forget the name of the magazine, but it was on sale at the newstand at Barnes & Noble. There was article suggesting that James' story, "Canon Alberic's Scrapbook", was loosely based upon the mystery of Rennes le Chateau, a mystery which was later made the basis of the bestseller "Holy Blood, Holy Grail." The author of the article cited many similarities between James story and the Rennes-le-Chateau mystery, and suggested that James, who was a Biblical scholar, might have got wind of the mystery and used it as the basis for his story.




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 6 Sep 06 | 06:24PM by Gavin Callaghan.