I am looking for mythos type writers.
If their is any one who has created their sort of Pantheon or gods, or if anyone out their is writing in the "Lovecraftian vein" then please tell me!

I have some stories but they havent been edited yet...cant get around to it.

i have a few of my stories posted on "Litt.com (or org)" but the server might have taken them down.

Dear Rutledge - please don't be offended, but I've been part of the Grammar police too long -- "their" is the possessive -
"there" is the locative. Many people who write really well have these little problems and need someone to proof their texts. I do this for several writers, including one or two subscribers to this site - it's easy to happen even to careful spellers if they write rapidly in the heat of inspiration -- I would love to see what you doing.

i dont really care about my grammar on internet forums lol

could i e-mail you some of my work? i dont have much so far..

Hey there, Rutledge_442:
I run a sword and sorcery writing Yahoogroup that includes published and unpublished writers: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/swordandsorcerywriting/.
While there is an emphasis on sword and sorcery, anything in the 'cosmic horror' vein is acceptable.

Of course you can write to me - I would be honored to see your work -
Drf

i will join sword and sorcery writing group and calonlan i will eventually e-mail you my work all of this should happen before thanksgiving

colnlan,
I have tried e-mailing some of my work but it did not work, much to my despair.
Do you have any other e-mail addresses that I can use to get ahold of you?

rutledge: write to remraf3@sbcglobal.net

thank ye kindly sir

Havent seen this page when the discusion was on.
I write such things,allbeit in Czech.My stories include "Abvom the devourer" ,"The Most wisest Hideousnes" and "The City of the Asteroid",the later heavily influenced by CAS of witch I am a great fan (unfortunately I live in the Czech republic,so heres the only place where I can get his stories).As a writer, I am also influenced by HPL,Jorge Luis Borges,Jan Weiss (Czech author) and Robert W. Chambers and his King in Yellow.Finished 3 books (one monumentous,over 420 pages long!) called "Tales of God" (has my first works as well as first drafts and my surrealistic stories (yes,im a "weird fiction" writer and surrealist at the same time) and the founding stories of my own mythos) ,"Tales of Blue Light" (of witch I am most found ,has my stories relating to the 9 King,especialy the Blue King,Red King and Green King and the Yellow King (other name for the King in Yellow!) and "Tales of Earth",other stories.Am curently working on "The Tournament of the Gods",a detailed look on a subject from one of my first stories.I also ocasionaly write in english.Heres is the story "The Valley of the King",from my last Book.(Please excuse misspleings,often produced by an absolutely unreliable keyboard and by my own desire to let the ideas pass through without checking the grammar)

(PS:One finqal request-does anyone know where to find CASs short story "The Dome in the Ice"-meaning online?)

The Valley of the King

By David Kartaš

In Yathoia,Amanenk and Suiday,within Amalga-Manaation,none would ever show a passer-by the road that lead to The Valley of the King.For every month on the same night,unearthly screaming coverred all the land of Amalga-Manaation,that lied on the nearly sunken continent of Yothoi,that was kept above the waters by the tireless chanting of the never-resting priests in the countles monasteries at the ever crumbling shores, and reports have been gathered that this ever-echoing catatonic onomatopoeia was heard in such distant places as the Living city of Aiwaidan the Magnificent,Hormuzd's City and the twin Cities of Caledonia and Nefrit.
Two hundred thousand years ago great King Yban of Ayko-I,(witchs ruins now lie below the waters of the Grey Sea,and serve as homes for those faceles water mamals that have been said to have inhabited Yothoi in times before it rose from the ocean (as evidenced by the findings of their great,hideous monoliths in the central places of the continent,bearing their horrific script with its blasphemous hyeroglyphs,and inhuman characters with sugestions of such unearthly terrors beyond all and every creatures living mind, that their reading itself was baned by every sane king in all Yothoi and all the lands close to Yothoi) and who are reported to be the reason for the sinking of the continent through the insane fraze of impending doom,silabelled as "Yaghnai", "Yadith," "Nagara'i", and "Qa-a Adomam", (witch one night,unrememborable years ago an old sailor has thought to have overheard from within the depths and was so fascinated therewith that he emidiately went to his priest and had it recorded), although this remains unproven,for conversation with theese creatures is absolete,for they poses no voice,and comunicating with them through their scripture was proven imposible,exept by one man,who sixty thousand years ago,has said to have, in secrecy ,deciphered their script,after years of staring at their horific stone-carven head statues,fished out by unknowing fishers at Yothois shores and who claimed such blasphemies as that theese creatures were in descent from the things of horrible Ib,that escaped the slaughter witch had ended that city and spread though secret,unknown channels bellow the earths surfice and had traveled to far away lands,bearing with them the images of acursed Bokrug and teaching blasphemous men around great water reservoirs the secret chants to the Great-Water Lizard and the ancient secrets of Ib's foundation.One night,this man went to his king,bearing a ruber-like papyrus,bearing their re-writen messages,and is said to have translated to the Monarch its content,upon witch the King is reported to have gone insane and ran franticly into the sea,screaming:
"King,Ayun,bear this blaspheming child of Tir back into sweet Ralliah".A thousand men had raced into the sea to save their beloved despot,but he has disapeared so quickly, that every help has been too late,as Omankar III. sunk beneath the ways,laughing horibly.One young boy, who was the closest to the King before he vanished,has later reported that the King was not alone in the watres and that something had draged him into the sea by the leg.
However in those days but a few ship-men knew of the things that sometimes come from acursed Ralliah,or from its sister cities below the world and so the young man was dismised.They said that the shock of losing their great, generous king has caused him to lose his mind.
Whatever had truly been,none knoweth now,but what was was that the man who read his parchment to the king was brought before the stone circle and horribly sacrificed to lord Rankar,the guardian god of Yothoi,stil holding his acursed tome.When on the next night the priests came to cover the body of the deceased with tainted earth o stop the spreading of the horrible smell that would soon rise from the Temple of revenge,the holliest of Yothois temple (as his body could not be removed until his soul would be forever imprisoned in the stones) they found the skinless,eyles and organless corpse,however they found not the parchment,even when they look in all places,and that night the corpses features had,through some ironic turn of fate,obtained,acording to the laws decomposition,a faint change of expresion witch somehow closely resembled a smile.) had raised a militairy power of such greatnes,as Yothoi has never witnessed before.The King of Yathoia,Amanenk and Suiday,as well as the Kings of Fahazreda,Yü,Mokkai and Soth,all within Yothoi,and now below the oceans,all joined thi campaign as well as the soldiers of the King of the stone giants,who inhabited the South of Yothoi and who lived in their cities then as twenty thousand years before,when almost all their land had sunk.Yet they were in no need of air and so could live undisturbed,fighting of feeble atacks of the sea mamals,who wished to take their lands as their own.
And so this army marched for the goal witch the king foresaw, the obliteration of the nameles menace thas has for so long tormented all the living things on Yothoi.And so they marched and every day at night they blew the angoth-horn,from the horns of the water-bizon, witch clang so greatly,that it was heard even by departing ships on nearby islands.For a month and a day they marched,and for forty one days clang the reverberations of the angoth-horn,yet on the forty second night,not a sound had come and the next day the screamings had come once more,this time however people in Yathoia,Amanenk and Suiday,as well as in Fahazreda,Yü,Mokkai and Soth and the dimensionless capital of the Stone Giants,people had fancied that amongst the multilocular throng of shrieking voices they could distinguish the voices of their ruling kings.
After forty one further days did the only survivors,the stone giants,return.Once mighty and proud wariors,they had now draged their soul-less bodies along the woods back into their lands,and once there,speaking of what they saw in secrecy to the council of elders,who had comed to reign in place of the absent king,and on that day it was decided that they stone giants shall live in the water no more,from the reason only the vetearans of that indescribable war knew, yet witch not even torture could bring to reveal (for the new King thought that they had left the old to die and wished to learn the "true" secret of his perdition) .They only thing they ever said was right before they died on the rack,a small note saying:
"The King took the Mystery from Hyades and hid it in the valley.And on the door behind witch it lies he wrote his message and invitation."
Yet before they went,they brought from Yothoi's seaports curious stones with strange markings,reportedly ordered from the horrible stone villiages of Leng,and took them down into the deep.
Thus ended the expedition of King Yban,into the land witch the surviving stone giants have come to name The Valley of the King.

Four milion years in the meantime past,in the land of waking and dreaming alike.Forgoten Hyperborea rose and fell,True Mu had been and sunk and the new Mu had taken its place and stil Yothoi rose above the waters,yet every year less and less remained of this proud continent,who in lenght far out-numbered the Empiere of Hangey and the Dynasty that followed,the land to whom the Everlasting Empiere fell as a tributary,and witch even the High Priests of Sarnath did come to bless,before that horrible night, a thousandth in succession.

Then on the eve of William the illegitimate,the last ship left the last port of Yothoi,witch already began to fill up with water.
As they sailed of,the last 800 souls who fought their way aboard the ship,they met many vesels to whom theirs was a giant.As they heard the frenzy of the sailors of the smaller ships,they sighed,remembering the tales of Yothoi in its prime,when a ship such as theirs would be but a rowboat compared to those of the merchant ports.Then they met Him.He sailed on the seas,silent and malevolent,on a small boat made of a tree.He looked to them and upon his face they saw who he was.And when he spoke,he read aloud a parchement that he held in his left hand.And when the first words were uttered,they realised that what he held was the text of that forgotten blasphemer,who had murdered King Omankar.And they runed around and tried not to hear and when they found they could not they sat around and wept for their own sanity.But then one rose and began to fight and more and more begant to do so as the document was read,until all had shared the coming blooshed.Mother killed son,brother killed brother,man killed woman.Soon,the waters around the ship turned violet with the liquid of war,to the lenght that some had jumped from board to drink its esence,when he could no longer find an open neckt o feast on.And as even the insane prefer the shorter way to their utmost desired goal,there jumped not one but a dozen and then two and three,until at lenght the ship became barren.When he who had read alloud saw this,he hid away the question of Hastur and turned his ship toward Albion,the place of his exile.

Yet on board there remained one alive who had come to know the message.And when he woke to full counsciousnes,he turned the wheel and made course into the home he had so vulgarly deserted.When at last the ship had reached where the port once once,there peared aloft the trees witch stood within the Valley.He laid the ankor (for the ship was made to be manned even by a single man) and set about to walk amongst theese places,as no man has ever done afore,and walking toward the great circular temple in the sky,had read the message on the gate and knowing now the answer,spoke aloud,walked within and became one with the Mystery of the Hyades.

The son of the Nameless Emperor,who himself was born son of Y'ackei,smiled,laughing how their war was ended with what it began,making the loss of their empiere a humorous joke.About this he rejoiced as he entered the Williams castel and sat behind the veil.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 1 May 07 | 06:51AM by David Kartas.

If some one can provide some kind editorial services to David, I will move this to the more appropriate tributes section.

Thanks,
B

I am now working as a full-time writer of Lovecraftian weird fiction and would like to encourage more writers to experiment with this sub-genre. There is so much yet to be express'd. My one suggestion is that you "stay with Lovecraft" rather than try to incorporate aspects of the Mythos added by Derleth and so many others. Lovecraft as Muse is amazing, and by carefully studying his texts you will find so many hints that will trigger your own imagination and start you off on writing fiction that, although inspir'd by HPL, is decidedly your own. My one plea is that new writers to the Mythos be serious in their approach to writing Lovecraftian horror. Cute stories about Cthulhu are trivial and tiresome. Try to be as original as you can be, and write the best prose of which you are capable. This is homage to a Master, and as such should be worthy as tribute.

There is a growing market, or so it seems, for Mythos fiction. Next month we will have NEW CTHULHU--THE RECENT WEIRD from Prime Books and THE BOOK OF CTHULHU from Night Shade Books. I regret that the name "Cthulhu" is now THE marketing tool for such tomes, but that seems to be the case; indeed, Titan, the company that is reprinting S. T.'s BLACK WINGS anthology, has retitled the book BLACK WINGS OF CTHULHU. Books such as Ellen Datlow's LOVECRAFT UNBOUND and S. T.'s BLACK WINGS (now an on-going series of anthologies) seem to hint of interest from professional editors, where once most such volumes were poorly edited by amateurs who had a very poor sense of that which constitutes good writing.

Being a Mythos writer means, mostly, being a small press writer with books that see a very slim print-run. You won't get rich, but if you are sincere in your efforts, you will be richly rewarded emotionally and aesthetically.

"I'm a little girl."
--H. P. Lovecraft, Esq.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12 Aug 11 | 06:36PM by wilum pugmire.

I also write what could be called "Lovecraftian" fiction--but never with direct mention of any of his gods, or texts, etc.

Actually, my fiction and story ideas had Lovecraftian leanings before I even knew who he was, or had read anything by him. When someone in a college writing class of mine told me my story reminded them of Lovecraft--whom I still thought of as 'some strange cult leader,' or the like--I knew I had to seek him out! And so I did--and I couldn't get enough. My life was never the same again.

I'm pretty sure I would be writing Lovecraftian stories whether or not Lovecraft had ever existed. But since he did it all first, every other writer with similar leanings must forever live in his shadow. But still, there's no denying that the man was the best at what he did. There will only ever be one Lovecraft--which is true of all great writers.

K_A_Opperman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I also write what could be called "Lovecraftian"
> fiction--but never with direct mention of any of
> his gods, or texts, etc.
>


Have you read Ellen Datlow's LOVECRAFT UNBOUND? Many people seem to have disliked the book because they found the fiction wasn't what they thought of as "Lovecraftian," and Ellen specifically banned any story that would use the cliches of Cthulhu Mythos fiction. The book is extraordinarily good because of the excellent writing, and it is fascinating to see the way that HPL has influenc'd modern weird artists. I thought that this might be the way of the future for we who write the stuff professionally, but all of a sudden the name "Cthulhu" is taking over. Next month will feature two new anthologies, NEW CTHULHU--THE RECENT WEIRD from Prime Books and THE BOOK OF CTHULHU from Night Shade Books. The name of Lovecraft's monster is nigh so potent that Titan Books, who will be reprinting S. T. Joshi's BLACK WINGS, has changed the title to BLACK WINGS OF CTHULHU!!! I thought perhaps, with new commercial editors taking an interest in bringing out Lovecraft-themed books, that we were getting completely away from the Cthulhu thing, but now I ain't so certain. However, it is an excellent time, if one writes exclusively for the small press, to be a Lovecraftian author, for the small press is humming with eldritch lore.

"I'm a little girl."
--H. P. Lovecraft, Esq.

I haven't read Datlow's anthology, but it has been on my Lovecraftian radar for some time. I've read reviews and and synopsi (is that a word?), and the volume appears quite interesting.

Lovecraft-wise, I've had my hands full with "Tales of the Cthulhu Mythos." It may sound like heresy, but I was a little bored by the volume. But then again, I'm only two thirds through. Aside from the core canon, I've also read the revisions--the primary one's, anyway; the secondary revisions I found to be frightfully boring, for the most part.

A more fascinating read was "The New Lovecraft Circle," edited by Price. So far, it is my favorite Lovecraftian volume not by the Old Gent himself. But perhaps Datlow's tome will challenge this...

K_A_Opperman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>synopsi (is that a word?)

No.

Ha ha, I was almost certain it wasn't (was too lazy to look it up)--but it was perfectly clear what I meant, so the language fulfilled its purpose, no? I've seen far worse abominations of language on the internet...

I see now that the correct word is 'synopses'--I'm sure I knew that, somewhere deep down in my brain.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16 Aug 11 | 02:19PM by K_A_Opperman.

It's synopses, rhymes with sneeze. Sounds like a good title though--"Genius Synopsi."

I've had a tale of Zothique I've longed to write, ever since the call for submissions went out for THE LAST CONTINENT: NEW TALES OF ZOTHIQUE back in 1998, but life circumstances then prevented me. I placed the outline on the shelf and there it has stayed, because (1) I wished to develop my craft in worlds of my own invention once I began to write again, (2) no new venues have presented themselves and, of course, (3) my lack of knowledge regarding potential copyright infringement. Are there markets, and is there interest, for such stories set in the worlds of CAS as there are for those in the mythos of HPL?

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

I don't know if there is any specific market. My idea for my own book of CAS-influenced tales was to create my own world in the Smith tradition. I wrote one CAS-influenced tale and just sold it yesterday to S. T. Joshi for his WEIRD FICTION REVIEW that is published once a year by Centipede Press. The professional market for such work is lean these days. I think it is best to write your own collection of tales and then try and sell a book of your stories to a publisher, but here again so many small press publishers don't look at "unsolicited" MSS from writers with whom they are unfamiliar. Trying to write more tales in the CAS tradition has proved so difficult for me that it has become obvious I don't have what it takes, & thus I have abandoned my plans to write such a book, even though I had two publishers who were interested in publishing the thing had I written it. Creating our own realms of phantasy is the best way to go, as it frees us to do our own thing within the genre tradition. I wish you much luck on your story, and your growth as a writer. The best way to grow, as you surely realise, is to write write write. Once you've established yourself, the publishers will come to you. I now have many publishers who dig my work and always ask for another book, but it takes a long time for that to happen.

"I'm a little girl."
--H. P. Lovecraft, Esq.

K_A_Opperman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ha ha, I was almost certain it wasn't (was too
> lazy to look it up)--but it was perfectly clear
> what I meant, so the language fulfilled its
> purpose, no? I've seen far worse abominations of
> language on the internet...
>
> I see now that the correct word is 'synopses'--I'm
> sure I knew that, somewhere deep down in my brain.

The idea of adding "i" to make a plural from a word ending in a sibilant comes from the those with poor memories of Latin classes they probably flunked - "i" can be the masculine plural form, but "ae" is the feminine - for those who don't remember, the endings masculine are - nominative - us; genitive - i; dative - o; accusative - um'; and ablative - o - there is also the locative and vocative cases as well, but that's second or third year Latin -
Again, small lesson - genitive denotes possession; dative denotes direction toward; accusative serves as we use the direct object; ablative has to do with movement "from" or "away from" -
Plural is "i", "-orum", "-is", "-os", "-is" - should have put the dashes in above for clarity -
so we have Alumnus, Alumni - feminine, Alumna, Alumnae -

Once had a lively debate at the Univ. level in my Prof's home - name was William P. Hotchkiss whose grandfather invented the famous Hotchkiss sub-machine gun so highly touted in Lawrences' "Seven Pillars..." - One very bright Poet/Graduate Fellow (Harold Holden) suggested the plural "Hotchki" ( the professor was a noted antiquarian - those of whose who knew his wife preferred the more accurate, "Hotchkissi" - and do remember that in Latin the letter "i" is pronounced like double "e".
Sorry for this lengthy peroration, I couldn't help myself today -

I have no 'poor memories of Latin classes'...I never took one--and I would not have flunked it, I assure you; never flunked a class in my 23 years. I typically place on the other extremity of the scale. No school I have ever attended offered Latin (while I was there), else I would have certainly taken it. I once attempted to teach myself out of a book, but failed in my resolve only a few weeks in. Any suggestions? I suppose, in the very least, I should memorize a list of roots. I am not an elite scholar with formidable knowledge of ancient languages...but I do possess a more than adequate command of the English language (it was my major, and is my passion and constant object of study), and I do pride myself on an unusually large vocabulary--and I'm quite aware that knowledge of Latin would be greatly beneficial in that area...

I laud your peroration, Dr. Farmer (to use a Latinate verb!), but it's a little over my head...it can be mildly intimidating being in the virtual presence of such formidably erudite folk as yourself... I just remind myself that we all know things that others do not. I, for example, could melt your brain with a peroration of my own on musical theory (unless you are a musician...in which case, damn you!), or a recondite discussion on the anatomy and biology of macrofungi, or a tenebrous delving into certain dim areas of folklore--but I will spare you.

At any rate, we less academically elite people out there need folk like yourself to challenge us, to raise the bar. CAS himself definitely set the bar high, and I have become the wiser for it. 'When something is over your head, stand up,' I believe he once said.

K_A_Opperman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have no 'poor memories of Latin classes'...I
> never took one--and I would not have flunked it, I
> assure you; never flunked a class in my 23 years.
> I typically place on the other extremity of the
> scale. No school I have ever attended offered
> Latin (while I was there), else I would have
> certainly taken it. I once attempted to teach
> myself out of a book, but failed in my resolve
> only a few weeks in. Any suggestions? I suppose,
> in the very least, I should memorize a list of
> roots. I am not an elite scholar with formidable
> knowledge of ancient languages...but I do possess
> a more than adequate command of the English
> language (it was my major, and is my passion and
> constant object of study), and I do pride myself
> on an unusually large vocabulary--and I'm quite
> aware that knowledge of Latin would be greatly
> beneficial in that area...
>
> I laud your peroration, Dr. Farmer (to use a
> Latinate verb!), but it's a little over my
> head...it can be mildly intimidating being in the
> virtual presence of such formidably erudite folk
> as yourself... I just remind myself that we all
> know things that others do not. I, for example,
> could melt your brain with a peroration of my own
> on musical theory (unless you are a musician...in
> which case, damn you!), or a recondite discussion
> on the anatomy and biology of macrofungi, or a
> tenebrous delving into certain dim areas of
> folklore--but I will spare you.
>
> At any rate, we less academically elite people out
> there need folk like yourself to challenge us, to
> raise the bar. CAS himself definitely set the bar
> high, and I have become the wiser for it. 'When
> something is over your head, stand up,' I believe
> he once said.


Dear K.A. - I did not infer you as the one who had flunked Latin! -- The web site I gave you earlier at Lexfiles.com will, if you master the "thrust" of the meaning of the 14 prefixes and roots, be more useful than 2 years of Latin, and a hell of a lot quicker -
Regarding music - I began Violin at 5, studied Voice with Frank Purcell and eventually sang at the NY City Opera, San Francisco Opera, and Portland Opera - have conducted numerous choirs, and recorded as conductor with a couple of Symphony Orchestras - Taught voice and piano and organ for 50 years, have directed or performed in most major musicals, and since retiring in '93 have done the musical direction for Menotti's "The Medium" and "The Telephone",plus "Jesus Christ, Superstar", "Damn Yankees", and "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum",
One of my former students, had he not died tragically, would have been the first Black conductor to do opening Night at the Met, and another is currently music director for the Seattle Opera, and associate director of the Seattle Symphony - I studied composition and conducting with Ernst Bacon, Pulitzer prize winning composer and conductor, founder of the Carmel Bach Society, and contemporary of Copeland and Harris (whose wife was a fine pianist and good friend many years ago). However - I would love to have my brain melted - now, I can be easily outdone in many fields - including the above - I had a foster son who graduated with a 4.0 in nuclear physics, and when visiting him at Whitman College in the late '70's, I would listen for hours as he excitedly told me all the wonderful things he was learning, of which I understood only the prepositions, particles, and interjections, and occasional "expletives deleted" - I watch with great joy the exuberance of others in fields outside my own, and within - truly my young friend, a thing discovered anew is no different in its importance, than when discovered the first time - I well remember one of my daughter's at 3 years of age one day holding up both hands and expressing in awe and wonder -- "They're both the same!"

Whoa...I will definitely never attempt to melt your brain via musical theory! Truly, you are the master! I bow down to you, sir. Although a lot of you classical fellows can usually use to learn a thing or two about jazz improvization--what I consider my forte (though I don't claim to be a grand master or anything, and am largely self-taught). I myself have a strange tendency to combine elements of medieval and renaissance music into my often lightning quick guitar lines, most often played on an acoustic. I am especially fond of 70's fusion jazz--and of course, early music. Anything fast, complicated, or moody and mysterious. One day, through sheer concentrative power, I am going to transform my guitar into a lute! At which point I will become a travelling bard, a singer of songs, a spreader of merriment and mystery.

I will certainly investigate that website and memorize whatever needs memorizing. Still, there is no substitute for learning Latin...perhaps I am more up to the task now than a few years ago, when I first tried. If only my book weren't buried somewhere in storage--alas! If I learned Latin, I could finally read the ancient manuscripts whose antique secrets I find so lethally alluring. Then again, perhaps it is best that I can't...I think one of them was a leaf from the Necronomicon...

Regarding your daughter's whilom awe and wonder of her hands--I still cannot get over my own! The fact that the human mind can with virtual instantaneousness affect complex motor actions simply astounds me--there is little that doesn't astound and fascinate me, actually. Just yesterday, while examining my fingers, I discovered that one of them is a few millimeters longer than its counterpart. So you see, I really have been scrutinizing my hands. A strange one, I am.

Hmm, so, I assume that the two of you know, without resorting to search engines, what a Tierce de Picardie is. ;-)

I didn't, actually, but now having cheated and looked it up (mwah ha ha!), I see that it is a concept that I am perfectly familiar with--just didn't know that fancy name!

K_A_Opperman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whoa...I will definitely never attempt to melt
> your brain via musical theory! Truly, you are the
> master! I bow down to you, sir. Although a lot of
> you classical fellows can usually use to learn a
> thing or two about jazz improvization--what I
> consider my forte (though I don't claim to be a
> grand master or anything, and am largely
> self-taught). I myself have a strange tendency to
> combine elements of medieval and renaissance music
> into my often lightning quick guitar lines, most
> often played on an acoustic. I am especially fond
> of 70's fusion jazz--and of course, early music.
> Anything fast, complicated, or moody and
> mysterious. One day, through sheer concentrative
> power, I am going to transform my guitar into a
> lute! At which point I will become a travelling
> bard, a singer of songs, a spreader of merriment
> and mystery.
>
> I will certainly investigate that website and
> memorize whatever needs memorizing. Still, there
> is no substitute for learning Latin...perhaps I am
> more up to the task now than a few years ago, when
> I first tried. If only my book weren't buried
> somewhere in storage--alas! If I learned Latin, I
> could finally read the ancient manuscripts whose
> antique secrets I find so lethally alluring. Then
> again, perhaps it is best that I can't...I think
> one of them was a leaf from the Necronomicon...
>
> Regarding your daughter's whilom awe and wonder of
> her hands--I still cannot get over my own! The
> fact that the human mind can with virtual
> instantaneousness affect complex motor actions
> simply astounds me--there is little that doesn't
> astound and fascinate me, actually. Just
> yesterday, while examining my fingers, I
> discovered that one of them is a few millimeters
> longer than its counterpart. So you see, I really
> have been scrutinizing my hands. A strange one, I
> am.


Dear K.A. - you might not know that Donald Sydney Fryer accompanies his recitations of CAS on the Bass Lute - I commend you on your apparant playing skill - I am a regular listener to "Jazz as the Improv" - and, until about 6 months ago, shared a Saturday 3 hour radio show with a local Host, which we called "music that won the war", featuring stuff from the late 30's into the early 50's - and, of course, many of the great Jazz pioneers were regularly featured - If you ever have the opportunity, see if you can find an old Tal Farlow album - for sheer speed and inventiveness, I never heard his equal - if you are really fast, then I am eager to hear you - go for it kid - great performance is great performance - the genre is secondary. My son-in-law, a classical bassist (plays with the symphony) is a true jazz performer, and anything else modern (he looks like Bob Marley - he also sang "Judas" for me when I did "Superstar" - he had done the role in NY) - he did not believe that his stuffy old Father-in-law could conduct rock-and-roll (we hadn't known each other very long then) - he was stunned to discover that the finished performance was of touring company quality - Hope to meet and get to know your and skills in person.

Yes, I did know that DSF sometimes accompanies himself with his bass lute, and I hope to someday witness him performing with it. I recently sent him my letter, and eagerly await his reply (assuming he will be nice enough to do so). I hope to learn a thing or two from him--I'm curious what it takes to be an "enchaunter," how this is done, and how to aspire to loftier poetical peaks. I am also keenly interested in the California Romantic tradition (and sometimes pretend to be part of it...)--and being that he is the current holder of the torch, it is paramount that I contact him!

And yes, I can play very fast :)--although you musn't mistake me for one of those egotisical shredders that are all speed and nothing else. I like to think that I have plenty of style, inventiveness, a very good ear, and an impeccable sense of timing--which is crucial, as I'm sure you know. But I am no master. I cannot read sheet music (I can decipher it), and I'm no great composer in any sense; I just have a high facility for intelligent improvisation, often at very fast speed--with the occasional (or more than occasional...) jaunty renaissance flavor thrown into the maelstrom of weird jazz lines. Still, improvisation is a skill that even some highly trained individuals are hard-pressed to master--there's no black and white scientific formula, and you've got to have the guts for it! For some weird reason, I've always lacked the discipline to learn songs--I've scarcely done anything besides improvise interminably for going on 10 years! I've always preferred to play how I feel--literally translating my mood into music--rather than something else pre-written--music is very much a cathartic excercise for me. As you can see, I am very, very unconventional in my approach. In some ways, I'm the antithesis of a song writer--although my improvisations often take on the semblance of pre-composed music. I've always felt that a master improviser should be able to fool an audience into thinking that they are playing a composition--even if it is made up right on the spot!

I have some limited formal training (I played trombone in my high school advanced jazz group--did I mention I was first chair? And I took some basic theory in community college), but other than that, I'm entirely self taught. I always learn best that way.

Regarding mood improvisation - if you have not seen the remarkable film, "1900" - I strongly recommend it - a small and mystic masterpiece.

calonlan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Regarding mood improvisation - if you have not
> seen the remarkable film, "1900" - I strongly
> recommend it - a small and mystic masterpiece.

The 1976 Bertolucci film?

Quote:

Calonlan
The web site I gave you earlier at Lexfiles.com will, if you master the "thrust" of the meaning of the 14 prefixes and roots, be more useful than 2 years of Latin, and a hell of a lot quicker

I have visited said website and find it very interesting and very helpful. Happily, I seem already to have a decent grasp of the majority of what's there, but not all of it; and I am a firm believer in the notion that 'masters practice the basics.'

Just as one can better learn English through studying Latin, so too can one with a good knowledge of Latinate English words gain considerable insight into the language. Whichever one studies, they will learn something about the other. How very economical--I love it!

I will also mention a favorite word-site of mine--The Phrontistery: [phrontistery.info]

It's full of words you will never need to know--the best kind, in my opinion! Of course, if one is a rhyming poet, one can never know enough words...I have occasionally had to call upon some obscure words to find the perfect rhyme...

The 'Compendium of Lost Words' at The Phrontistery is particularly interesting: [phrontistery.info]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 22 Aug 11 | 01:27PM by K_A_Opperman.

Relative to my recommending the film "1900" - I also recommend Menotti's little opera, "The Medium" - this first appeared in my junior HS year, when I had become very good friends with Clark Aston - my HS choral teacher (a first class musician, pianist, and former accompanist to prominent opera singers on concert tour) brought in an LP recording and played it for us - it was bone-chilling, and wonderful - long story short: I had told Clark how I loved the poem that starts, "The sunset gonfalons are furled..." , and I suppose surprised him by knowing what a "gonfalon" was (in the old days, we studied the spanish invasion of the americas in great detail and learned about ships and such) - an image I still cherish for its majestic vision - anyway, I shared with him the words to the wonderful Soprano, Alto duet in that opera - "The sun is dying and it lies in blood, the moon is weaving bandages of gold - Oh,Black Swan, where, oh where has my lover gone -- torn and tattered is my bridal gown, and my lamp is lost, and my lamp is lost..." This is done as a gypsy lament, and in the show is interrupted suddenly by a spectral disembodied voice -"mother,mother - are you there?" - I recommend listening to it on a CD before watching the video - the best role in the show is Toby, a mute gypsy boy - wonderful stuff - Clark loved it -

calonlan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Relative to my recommending the film "1900" - I
> also recommend Menotti's little opera, "The
> Medium" - this first appeared in my junior HS
> year, when I had become very good friends with
> Clark Aston - my HS choral teacher (a first class
> musician, pianist, and former accompanist to
> prominent opera singers on concert tour) brought
> in an LP recording and played it for us - it was
> bone-chilling, and wonderful - long story short: I
> had told Clark how I loved the poem that starts,
> "The sunset gonfalons are furled..." , and I
> suppose surprised him by knowing what a "gonfalon"
> was (in the old days, we studied the spanish
> invasion of the americas in great detail and
> learned about ships and such) - an image I still
> cherish for its majestic vision - anyway, I shared
> with him the words to the wonderful Soprano, Alto
> duet in that opera - "The sun is dying and it lies
> in blood, the moon is weaving bandages of gold -
> Oh,Black Swan, where, oh where has my lover gone
> -- torn and tattered is my bridal gown, and my
> lamp is lost, and my lamp is lost..." This is done
> as a gypsy lament, and in the show is interrupted
> suddenly by a spectral disembodied voice
> -"mother,mother - are you there?" - I recommend
> listening to it on a CD before watching the video
> - the best role in the show is Toby, a mute gypsy
> boy - wonderful stuff - Clark loved it -


post script to the above - thanks for stirring a long lost memory -

I don't know if you mean to say that I have stirred from the tenebrous vaults of your mind the above memory; but at any rate, it appears that you are the sole conjurer--but perhaps I have acted as some sort of Nathaire's mirror to show you what is in thine own head?

"The Medium" sounds interesting, and the lyrics strike me favorably. I must confess total ignorance to the realm of opera, but not because of being averse to it--I can appreciate a little drama. I'm really not as 'cultured' as I should be--I suspect I may be the least cultured here! I'll blame that on the short amount of time I've occupied this planet...but that excuse grows less viable every day...my birthday looms nigh...I will have attained the age corresponding with the agency which increases it...I do love riddles!

I will second the recommendation of THE MEDIUM. A friend of mine in high school used to sing "The Black Swan" at recitals, and the work is worth hearing just for that beautiful song. This happens to be the Menotti centennial year, which means that a lot of vintage recordings of his work have been appearing. If you can do without a libretto, the European branch of Naxos has been reissuing recordings of the earlier Menotti operas made shortly after their premieres in decent monaural sound. THE MEDIUM was originally staged with a slightly shorter comic pendant, THE TELEPHONE, which is just as frothy as THE MEDIUM is grim. There is not much to it, but it gives the soprano soloist a chance to burble along like a giddy nightingale for long stretches at a time. The Naxos release pairs these on one remarkably inexpensive disc (check them out at MDT or Grooves.com). Two other pairings have each taken up two (inexpensive) discs in the same series: THE CONSUL with AMELIA AT THE BALL, and THE SAINT OF BLEECKER STREET with the madrigal-cantata THE UNICORN, THE GORGON, AND THE MANTICHORE.

Jim

My suspicions are confirmed--I am the least cultured here...by far. I have no idea what you good fellows are talking about--but I am very open to discovering new things. Speaking of Naxos, I think I have a couple of cd's from that label--medieval stuff. Yes, I have an "Ensemble Unicorn" cd titled "Chominciamento di gioia--Virtuoso dance-music from the time of Boccaccio's Decamerone." It's not bad, but I find the recorder player a little 'busy' and repetitive. But since I am highly fond of the recorder, I am able to overlook this.

Well, I guess I am slightly cultured...I own something with Italian writing on it. Eh? Eh? That counts for somethin', don't it fellas?

Of course it does. The most fascinating disc I have heard by The Unicorn Ensemble is their Naxos disc of songs and instrumental music by Alexander Agricola, a(n apparent) pupil of Ockeghem that took the wilder aspects of his teacher, resulting in some fascinating, intricate, and barely predictable polyphonic fantasies that offer some striking contrasts to the more refined, if equally intricate approach of Josquin Des Prez. Great fun!

Jim, do you refer to "Agricola: Fortuna desperata"? Trying to find it on Amazon.

In a similar vein, I would highly recommend this recording of authentic tarantellas by the Atrium Musicae de Madrid.

Looks very intriguing, Absquatch (who could resist that cover art?!) I have a cd called "Lute Music for Witches and Alchemists" which includes a tarantella by Athanasius Kircher (it's one of my favorites on the disc, and I often find myself playing the melody on my guitar...no tarantula will ever phase me...). According to the fascinating liner notes, it was a "musical remedy against the venom of the tarantula." The occult side of music has always interested me.

Hmmm, I get the feeling a new topic should have been started...

Just found one of the songs on youtube! [www.youtube.com]

Yes, yes, yes! This stuff is definitely down my alley. Must Acquire cd. Cd is somewhat rare. Have no money. Damn! Damn! Damn!

Actually, this is one of the best songs I've heard in a long time...thanks much, Absquatch! Now I want to learn it on guitar!

Almost sounds like there's an ocarina in there(I play it, sort of), or is it just me...?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 22 Aug 11 | 08:43PM by K_A_Opperman.

I am glad that you enjoyed it. I imagine that the CD is obtainable at a reasonable price, somewhere. On the piece you mentioned, I love the use of the Crumhorns to state the main theme.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22 Aug 11 | 08:57PM by Absquatch.

Yes, I love, love, love, love, love crumhorns!!! To me, they are the essence of medieval pomp.

Here is the tarantella to which I earlier referred: [www.youtube.com]

Just curious, are you familiar with the 70's prog rock act Gryphon? Their album, "Red Queen to Gryphon Three," 'loosely based on a chess game,' and thoroughly medieval in flavor and instrumentation (they use crumhorns), is perhaps my favorite 'rock' album of all time. It can be listened to in its entirety on youtube if you're not familiar with it. "Lament" is perhaps my favorite of the 4 10 min. long songs, but I'm a total sucker for "Opening Move" as well.

I'll also mention my other 'favorite rock album of all time'--"Romantic Warrior," by Return to Forever. Medieval in theme, but not really in execution. Still, the music is highly imaginitive, and executed with supreme skill. Saw them live for a reunion tour in LA couple years back.

Third favorite is "Lark's Tongues in Aspic" by King Crimson. It ain't medieval, but it is evil--in the very best of ways.

It's official, this topic has been hijacked by the crumhorn! Rejoice, ye merry lords and--well, just lords, I suppose.

[www.youtube.com]

Quick notes: I have every Gryphon album ever recorded.

And 1973-74 King Crimson is among my very favorites. There's an excellent book (scroll down) that analyzes Lark's Tongues... in depth, but it's heavily musicological.

I had a mystical feeling you would know these bands. I am jealous of you, sir--I only have "Red Queen." I really would like to acquire their first and second albums as well. How about Return to Forever? The Mahavishnu Orchestra? And I'll bet you're well versed in Genesis, ELP, Gentle Giant?

Never heard of that book, but it looks highly interesting--actually, I always used to say one could write an entire book on it! Looks like someone did. I can handle musicological lingo--but there is that point where it loses me. But talk of augmented 5ths, Dorian modes, hypophrygian modes, tritones, 6/8 time--none of this phases me in the slightest. Nor am I completely blind to musical notation. You must realize, after all, that you are dealing with someone who knows what a Tierce de Picardie is...

Yes, "Agricola: Fortuna desperata--Secular Music of the 15th Century" is the one. There is a similar program on Deutsche Harmonia Mundi, simply titled Agricola Chansons, which is also well-performed, but I have always found it dry.

Jim

After years of searching, I turned up a video of the first (black and white) performance of Menotti's "Amahl and the Night Visitors" - The bass who sang the part of Wise Man Balthazar in this 50's masterpiece, in 1986 sang the part of the Pharaoh at the 25th anniversary performance of Portland Oregon's revival of Verdi's "Aida" - the chorus master (now at Seattle Opera) was a former member and accompanist of the San Francisco Boy's Choir, and a student of mine when I worked with that group as vocal and drama coach, and, since this was a huge productin (new sets, new costumes, live elephant), to save money he asked me to come out of retirement and be on hand to understudy for Giacomini (performances available on youtube), and to sing with the chorus - what a thrill - and, mercifully this glorious singer did not need to be replaced - that show is a real workout. Indeed "The Telephone" is a hoot - really fun to do - and the piano gets to be the persons on the other end of the phone - requires a colorature and a baritone - I consider "The Medium" which I directed in "95" locally one of the best things I ever did in terms of staging creatively - and "Black Swan" is still musically one of Menotti's best pieces ever. As I said, Clark loved it - I played the record for him at my house - he did not have any electronic devices in his cabin - no electricity.

K_A_:

Last round for me here on music, as it is too tangential to the forum... but...

Gryphon's first two albums are the best, for my taste. The first will leave you in crumhorn heaven. I like Red Queen, but the wheels were starting to come off the wagon, by then.

By the way, Gryphon reunited for a one-off live show in 2009, I believe. It was strictly acoustic, as apparently Richard Harvey refuses to have anything to do with electricity, these days--in music, at least!

Yes, I am a progressive rock aficionado (and musician) of long standing. I am not very fond of jazz-fusion, though. That said, if you like Mahavishnu, then you might want to try to find a 1973 album by an obscure German band, Dzyan. It's called Time Machine. Though clearly influenced by The Inner Mounting Flame, Dzyan outdoes McLaughlin and co. on every level, in my view. Even if you disagree, I think that you'll still like the music.

The King Crimson book is print on demand, I believe; check the author's Web site again. I don't doubt you can handle the heavy musicology, but I just wanted to warn you. You'll find the author's emphasis on "occult" elements in Larks' Tongues (Golden Mean, etc.) interesting as well, I suspect. Robert Fripp had a lively interest in magic, in those days. Pity, I feel, he didn't stick with that, instead of migrating to the Gurdjieff folks.

Yes, Absquatch, while very interesting, this conversation really has nothing to do with CAS--oh wait, I wasn't supposed to admit that! One could argue that the tastes of CAS fans are tenuously related to CAS in some way. If there was enough interest in music here, someone could start a 'weird music' topic...I believe the culture of weird extends beyond chosen reading material...the stuff mentioned here has been pretty 'weird' by some people's standards...

I get what you mean about "Red Queen"--but I still think it's an indispensable masterpiece, a high point for progressive art rock. They must have disappointed some of their original folk fanbase with that release, though. I have heard all of the first 2 albums on youtube, and find them excellent--it is only a matter of time before I acquire them.

Too bad you don't like fusion--but I suppose it is some of the least accessible music out there...it alienates rock and jazz fans...but if you have not heard the "Romantic Warrior" album by Return to Forever (all on youtube), it is of particular interest to prog/art rock fans. Actually, it was my gateway from prog into the entire jazz world. The song "Magician" on that album is particularly colorful...very worth a listen--the whole album is, take it from a prog rock fan!

Thanks for the heads up about Dzyan--will look into it. Didn't know Fripp had occult influences, though the cover of "Lark's Tongues" certainly does hint that--the music does have a thoroughly mystical feel.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24 Aug 11 | 11:45AM by K_A_Opperman.

jimrockhill2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, "Agricola: Fortuna desperata--Secular Music
> of the 15th Century" is the one. There is a
> similar program on Deutsche Harmonia Mundi, simply
> titled Agricola Chansons, which is also
> well-performed, but I have always found it dry.
>
> Jim


Dear folks, can't resist a small entry on the word "Agricola", since my last name is the common translation of this word (even as George - geh-orgos - is Greek for the same thing) - it actually means "tiller of the soil" - interestingly, "Farmer" (fermier - fr.) is from a term meaning rent-measurer or collector, a job in the middle-ages something like the modern "county extension agent", in that the Lord of the manor had this guy on staff to evaluate the plots of land assigned to various tenants or serfs, determine the potential output, and decide how much revenue it would produce after reducing costs and the pittance for survival of said serf and family. Due to the usual vagaries of farming, and the notorious sloth of the peasant class, the "Farmer" often ended up having to do the work himself or lose his job (sic - head) if it looked like production would be too little - ergo - in the long run the poor guy ended up behind the plow as often as not, so the name was ultimately transferred. My heraldic crest has a Rooster head at the top - I always liked that, and when Clark and I were kicking this around he acknowledged and appreciation for the evviable task assigned by nature to the rooster - that of keeping a flock of hens "happy" - he reckoned that if re-incarnation turned out to be true, that such employment would be acceptable, and that he, prior to getting married, had already served an internship similarly employed around Placer County - and found it most beneficial to one's health and general sense of well-being.

Small further note re "agri-cola" - The "peregrine" falcon is so named because it flies "through" the "fields" -
Those who were required to provide hospitality (unwilling as a rule) to Crusaders on their way to the Holy Lands did not call them "Crusaders" but used the Latin "Peregrinus", because they commonly did not stay on the road but marched through the "agri" helping themselves to whatever crops were growing there - Eisenstein's great epic "Alexander Nevsky" utilizes this theme powerfully, only having the "Crusader" use this name for themselves in the "religious" music chanted while live children are tossed into the flames - the word "Pilgrim" is a corruption through mispronunciation by the Frisians and Dutch swallowing the "r" of "Pergrini" - the plural form -
Just a note on language from "ye old friendly neighborhood logophile".

Much appreciated, Dr. Farmer. Actually, 'agricola' is one of the very few Latin words I do know (from my failed attempt at learning the language)...

Perhaps I should mention the word 'peregrination'--a journey or pilgrimage, esp. made on foot. Funny the 'peregrinations' city dwellers sometimes make, never setting foot in a field at all! But of course, I have a strange feeling most of them would call it simply--'a walk.' How dull.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24 Aug 11 | 07:33PM by K_A_Opperman.

Indeed, how much more it would be to get a little "rape, pillage, and plunder" along the way - today folks see "R&R" - in the old days might it have been "RP&P"? hmmm