I have been making attempts at fiction for a few years now and have not had much formal education or training. That said, I am hoping that one of you gents might help me define the meanings of the active and passive voice in writing. Tonight I read it has nothing to do with tense; but when ever I read examples of passive setences it usually has words ending with "ed", or complete words like was and were that seem to imply past tense.
I also read that passive means the subject dictates the action(the verb), and that in active writing the verb dictates subject. Generaly, it seems to me that the active says more with less words.
Thanks inadvance,

Dear Maeterlinck:

Active: Lions eat Zebras -- Passive: Zebras are eaten by lions.

Refer to www.englishclub.com or specifically google Grammar:Active and Passive voice; there are numerous sources available to clarify the subject.
Active voice tends to be the form of ordinary speech in which the object takes the action of the verb -- I threw the ball.
In the passive voice the subject recieves the content of the verb -- The ball was thrown by me.
Most simplistically, passive voice is commonly characterized by the use of some form of the verb "to be": is, are, am, was, were, will be, will have been, etc.

Tense is not relevant.

Note: Puella pulchra illa gluteum maximum bonum habet! -- That cute chick has really great buns. -- Passive

I want to jump her bones! - active

E-mail me at

yithian442@yahoo.com

I'd like to read your work.

I cringe at the thought of some one else seeing, my below ametuer scriblings at this point.

Thanks though,

I am still an ameture, I've only finished 3-4 of the 10 stories I have written in the past year. I would recomend googling the National Ameture Press Association, to start with your ameturdom. That's what I am doing, but alas! I am 15 and cant find time to publish anything!

For more questions e-mail Bill Volkart the vice president of NAPA at...

calmlake@ix.netcom.com

Not to be excessively harsh, but you guys might want to start with a spell-checker :)... It's "amateur", "amateurish", etc.

Fifteen, thats pretty young for this type of writing. I thought I was the youngest sappling amongst this gang of cyclopean gents at age thirty. Who got you into the world of Arkham?
Thanks RodOvarl, I am working on that.

maeterlinck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fifteen, thats pretty young for this type of
> writing. I thought I was the youngest sappling
> amongst this gang of cyclopean gents at age
> thirty. Who got you into the world of Arkham?
> Thanks RodOvarl, I am working on that.


LOL, sorry, I felt I had to interject with a bit of elementary orthography. But in all sincerity, although I don't claim to be a fiction writer of any stripe, I do feel strongly that one must master the basics (grammar, spelling, etc.) before attempting to set pen to paper in earnest. No editor is going to bother reading past the first page of a submission with misspellings like that. BTW, it's "sapling", and "cycoplean" doesn't really apply to age (yeah, I'm just being a jerk now), although I am rather large and irregularly built.

I am sorry as well, that you had to interject. Your right, your just being a jerk.

Fare enuf. God luck ta ya. Seriously, I wasn't trying to be insulting, just trying to shock you two into an awareness of the (paramount) importance of mastering the language. Like I said, I'm not a creative type, and could never write a story, much less poetry, so I admire you for even considering entering that thankless arena. But consider this... CAS's own formal education ended at around 14/15 (he only finished grammar school), and HPL barely finished high school (if at all, I don't recall). Somehow, though, both of these enviable autodidacts became paragons of good English usage and abusage. When I imagine their teenage years, I picture them with huge dictionaries as their constant companions. Hell, even with my 25-odd years of (probably inferior) modern education, I still have to reach for the dictionary every few minutes while reading Smith's stuff (not so much with HPL, he keeps using the same terms over and over). It's a humbling experience, to say the least, to have a smaller active vocabulary than someone who only finished 8th grade.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 9 Dec 06 | 07:57AM by Radovarl.

Note from the grammar police: your - possessive
you're - you are

All you who wish to write - consider reading Dr. Kantor's new book, The Politically Incorrect Guide to Literature =

There are certain basics that are essential - Clark dropped out of grade school about the 6th grade - wrote Black Diamonds at about 14, and The Sword of Zagan about 16 - manuscript showing few corrections.

The apostrophe always means something is left out. Your teacher who said it means possession lied. It became confused with the possessive case when "John his bood" became pronounced John's book.

Cool, I didn't know that (John's book = John his book) or else I had forgotten.

First of all, sorry for the grammar. I dont much care for grammar "correctness" on message boards lol.

I got into the world of Arkham in the 7th grade. I was into black clothes, heavy metal, and spells. I came across the "necronomicon" ya know, the one that isn't anything close to Lovecraft's necronomicon? anywho, I read it's introduction and it talked about Lovecraft.............And then in the 9th grade when I was normal, The videogame came out and so I went on the computer to do research and found the Mythos.

And from there I came across NAPA which I have been a member for only a few short months.

Lovecraft was both very erudite, and a genius, but even he made occassional mistakes, as in his (in my opinion) rather overrated essay, Supernatural Horror in Literature, when he quotes a grammatically awkward passage written by his fellow Classicist Samuel Loveman:

"In Poe one finds it a tour de force, in Maupasant a nervous engagement of the flagellated climax. To Bierce, simply and sincerely, diabolism held in its tormented depth a legitimate and reliant means to the end."

As biblical scholar (and ghost story writer) M. R. James observed about this passage, in a 1928 letter to Nicholas Llewelyn Davies, "This appears to me to have no meaning."

Yeah, Lovecraft can babble like a 19th century German metaphysician sometimes. He definitely wasn't an academic, but sometimes he tried to fake it :). This is not his best sentence ever, LOL. Despite being overwritten though, "Supernatural Horror in Literature" is a great guide to "pre-Lovecraftian" macabre fiction. I find that since I share Lovecraft's scientific materialist outlook, I tend to have similar taste in horror fiction (I don't like overly "superstitious" stuff, with ghosts rattling chains and such). Whenever I've read something recommended in his essay, I've almost never been disappointed (W. H. Hodgson, Machen, etc.), and when he has misgivings about particular stories I tend to have similar impressions of them. It's a shame some good scifi or fantasy writer (I don't read recent horror, never picked up King or Koontz) hasn't written something similar to help us wade through the mass-marketed crap offered today to reach the few choice tidbits hiding in the muck. If someone knows of a survey/lit review of this sort please let me know.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11 Dec 06 | 07:19AM by Radovarl.

Dear Rutledge, did I understand you to say you are now 15? If so I commend you as an exceptional young man; years ago I became well acquainted with a boy of that age, classmate of my children, and discovered in conversation that he was aware CAS, and had actually read some. This blew me away at the time. This lad was a voracious reader with dreams of writing. I hope you are doing both, and encourage you to share any writing you have done with us "old guys" - I can assure you any critique you receive will be done with great care and affection. The only way to learn to write is to write - lots -- and listen carefully to any suggestions without taking offense (I know how hard it is to put one's literary offspring on public view) -- Be sure to read the classics, and if you can, learn Anglo-Saxon so you can read Beowulf at least a little to get the primeval sound of English.
Then listen to Gerard Manley Hopkins and Dylan Thomas. Try to master the sound of English as Clark did, then you may ornament your writing with the enaborate latinized vocabulary without losing strength and power. You are a ray of hope

Radovarl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, Lovecraft can babble like a 19th century
> German metaphysician sometimes. He definitely
> wasn't an academic, but sometimes he tried to fake
> it :). This is not his best sentence ever, LOL.

In this case the sentence was actually written by Loveman, Lovecraft only quoted it -- though this tip of the hat is in any case a lapse in judgement.

I have beesn reading the letters of lovecraft, and find it strange that he was so anti religion, considering he used to write astrology articles. I wrote the beginging of a little story that is on this forum under "is it worth it" I asked a question then added the litlle story. I wrote it at work in like two minutes, so it's nothing special, but I had fun with it.
I too think it's great that a fifteen year old is reading things like Clark Ashton Smith. I thought I would be the youngest one on this forum at age thirty. Keep up the good work kid.

calonlan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Rutledge, did I understand you to say you
> are now 15? If so I commend you as an exceptional
> young man; years ago I became well acquainted
> with a boy of that age, classmate of my children,
> and discovered in conversation that he was aware
> CAS, and had actually read some. This blew me
> away at the time. This lad was a voracious reader
> with dreams of writing. I hope you are doing
> both, and encourage you to share any writing you
> have done with us "old guys" - I can assure you
> any critique you receive will be done with great
> care and affection. The only way to learn to
> write is to write - lots -- and listen carefully
> to any suggestions without taking offense (I know
> how hard it is to put one's literary offspring on
> public view) -- Be sure to read the classics, and
> if you can, learn Anglo-Saxon so you can read
> Beowulf at least a little to get the primeval
> sound of English.

A copy of Beowulf in A-S is something that I really need to acquire. Every once in a while I try to make progress with learning Old English but it's somewhat futile without a longer text. I have actually put off reading Beowulf in modern English translation (which seem to have been increasing in number lately; I think Tolkien's was re-discovered a while ago in the Bodleian Library and is going to be published in the near future) so that the original text would be new to me. Dr. Farmer, would you be able to recommend a good A-S dictionary that is available easily enough?

I myself first read CAS at age 13 (that is, 12 years back) -- although in Finnish translation. Maybe a paperback with good selection and an attractive cover is the most effective way to recruit new followers? There's the Orion Fantasy Masterworks pb., "Emperor of Dreams", at the moment, but just how widely is it circulated?

But I digress... what was the original topic -- active/passive voice?

Juha-Matti Rajala

maeterlinck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have beesn reading the letters of lovecraft, and
> find it strange that he was so anti religion,
> considering he used to write astrology articles.

Astronomy not astrology.

Have a read of Collected Essays, Volume 3:
Science which includes a number of articles on astrology such as: "The Falsity of Astrology"

P.S 10% off sale at Hippocampus Press till Xmas

maeterlinck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have beesn reading the letters of lovecraft, and
> find it strange that he was so anti religion,
> considering he used to write astrology articles.

Well, the explanation is that HPL wrote astronomy articles -- and some anti-astrology ones as well. And I don't think "anti-religious" is an accurate summation of Lovecraft's views. Consider this passage from a letter to Rheinhart Kleiner:

"I shall state my attitude towards orthodox theism and Christianity in my own cold-blooded words...
"Orthodox Christianity... should be preserved as long as it can be propped up... It's a crime to publicly attack the church, since upon that institution rests more than half of the responsibility for maintaining the existing order..."

calonlan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Rutledge, did I understand you to say you
> are now 15? If so I commend you as an exceptional
> young man; years ago I became well acquainted
> with a boy of that age, classmate of my children,
> and discovered in conversation that he was aware
> CAS, and had actually read some. This blew me
> away at the time. This lad was a voracious reader
> with dreams of writing. I hope you are doing
> both, and encourage you to share any writing you
> have done with us "old guys" - I can assure you
> any critique you receive will be done with great
> care and affection. The only way to learn to
> write is to write - lots -- and listen carefully
> to any suggestions without taking offense (I know
> how hard it is to put one's literary offspring on
> public view) -- Be sure to read the classics, and
> if you can, learn Anglo-Saxon so you can read
> Beowulf at least a little to get the primeval
> sound of English.
> Then listen to Gerard Manley Hopkins and Dylan
> Thomas. Try to master the sound of English as
> Clark did, then you may ornament your writing with
> the enaborate latinized vocabulary without losing
> strength and power. You are a ray of hope


re your request -- Sosworth and Toller (newest), and Clark Hall,Concise AS Dict.

may also go to [dontgohere.nu]

also you might find an old recording online to help with pronunciation. Good luck
meeting the "scrithan sceadugenga" (pronounced screethan shayaduganga)--the dark shadow-goer!


drf

I thank you all for the support! I do try to learn archaic words and I do pay attention to my dreams. I am working with Hal Cheney, the senior editor of NAPA to publish a journal with my short story "The Age of Hastur."

But sadly I am struggling with writer's block...which I am trying to overcome!

/rutledge, sorry for the typo, it is Bosworth and Toller

re - writer's block - a couple of techniques -

1. Take something simple like Reader's Digest - place your fingers at the top of the page and scan down the page -- go page by page following with your eye for one minute. Then close the article and by free association write down whatever words or ideas that float into your head from what you just saw. Then ask yourself what the article is about, and if you can pull it up, what the author's point of view is. Having done that, repeat the exercise with the same technique, and write by free association again - compare how much more comes up. In other words, relax your mind from the "blocked" project. Then return to it, preferably with, if you can swipe it, a small glass of Burgundy, or, if in fact underage, some AF Sangria or O'Doul's beer will help focus and drop that level at which you are easily distracted just enough to allow you to pull things together.

2. Check your initial outline if you made one (and it can be a very good idea in the beginning) and see if what you have thus far is on track.

3. Another really excellent way to clear the mind is to do some quick and simple math problems (flash cards of simple problems is good, nothing complex as algebra - simplicity is the key)
Math allows the synapses in the brain to realign and often become more agreeable to receiving or releasing information. (From studies in Brain-based learning, Syracuse Univ. 1962 and Univ. of Michigan, 1967).

Good luck - If it doesn't work, go outside, play some sport or
chase your girlfriend around the back seat of the car in some remote location.

Thanks for the advice!
I am developing an idea for a story..but putting it into words is now a problem. I shal heed thy advice!

Also, has anyone looked into the NAPA?

Thanks for this.

JMR

calonlan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> re your request -- Sosworth and Toller (newest),
> and Clark Hall,Concise AS Dict.
>
> may also go to
> [dontgohere.nu]
>
> also you might find an old recording online to
> help with pronunciation. Good luck
> meeting the "scrithan sceadugenga" (pronounced
> screethan shayaduganga)--the dark shadow-goer!
>
>
> drf

Out of curiosity, is this the same NAPA as in HPL's day?

JMR

rutledge_442 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thank you all for the support! I do try to learn
> archaic words and I do pay attention to my dreams.
> I am working with Hal Cheney, the senior editor of
> NAPA to publish a journal with my short story "The
> Age of Hastur."
>
> But sadly I am struggling with writer's
> block...which I am trying to overcome!

maeterlinck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have beesn reading the letters of lovecraft, and
> find it strange that he was so anti religion,
> considering he used to write astrology articles. I
> wrote the beginging of a little story that is on
> this forum under "is it worth it" I asked a
> question then added the litlle story. I wrote it
> at work in like two minutes, so it's nothing
> special, but I had fun with it.
> I too think it's great that a fifteen year old is
> reading things like Clark Ashton Smith. I thought
> I would be the youngest one on this forum at age
> thirty. Keep up the good work kid.

I find it strange that HPL was so generally dismissive of religion, when his favorite catch-phrase was the infamous "God Save the King!" ---when of course any pious Anglican clergyman would flee in horror from many of the materialistic and mechanistic/Nietzschean statements found in HPL's letters. "God Save the King!" indeed. Which God--- Yog Sothoth?

But that is HPL: a man of many, many contradictions. An anti-Semite ---whose most loyal friends, and wife, were Jewish; a staunch New Englander ---who had pictures of Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis on his wall; a man with a phobic and metabolic dislike of extreme cold --but whose favorite food was ice cream.... the list goes on and on....

Mystery writer Harry Stephen Keeler had an interesting way of writing mysteries: he would take a stack of newspaper clippings from his files (he had voluminous newspaper files), lay them out, and then compose a narrative stringing the various incidents in the newspaper clippings together. He called them "web-work" novels, and they are most entertaining, in a surreal sort of way.

Sci-fi writer Jack Williamson suffered from an extreme bout of writer's block at one point. He was helped through it by Fred Pohl, who collaborated with him on a series of novels until he was able to write again. A few years back, too, in the 1990's, I remember reading a recent interview with a modern female sci-fi or fantasy writer. I forget her name, but she, too, had writer's block ---but rather than regarding it as a bad thing, she used to further her delving into Eastern religion --renuncing her writing, much in the way that Hopkins did when he became a Jesuit.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 17 Dec 06 | 07:16PM by Gavin Callaghan.

Out of curiosity, is this the same NAPA as in HPL's day?

JMR

Actually yes it is!!!! In my first publication to NAPA I am even going to give a tribute to Lovecraft's membership with NAPA.

Contact anyone in NAPA and they'll tell you all about it.

Do you want me to post a link?

[www.amateurpress.org]

Here it is!