Dexterward Wrote:
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> Yes, that would be "Wolf Tracks." I know because I
> have an old beat up copy sitting right in front of
> me! I'm glad to hear that it's actually scary.
>
> Oh, and that reminds me of another one that I
> picked up from Joshi's book: "The Were Wolf", by
> Clemence Housman (The sister of AE Housman) I
> purchased one of those classic reprint editions
> the other day, and I'm looking forward to reading
> it. At any rate, people familiar with it seem to
> hold it in high esteem.


Yes, it's quite a good piece. HPL hit it on the head when he said it is like a bit of folklore, for it certainly has that feel to it. Beautifully done.

I remember David Case as the author of a short werewolf story called "Dead End" . It was in one of the numbered anthologies of horror stories published by Pan - the thirteenth I think . It really scared me in my early teens . If my memory is correct ,it was set in South America . The only part I remember now , is when the main character runs for his life leaving his brave dog Rojo , to fight the werewolf on it's own !

Would Dead End by David Case be the same as the movie "Scream of the Wolf" from 1974, with Peter Graves, he also wrote a story featured in the Peter Cushing movie "As the Sceaming Starts". The movie is on YouTube and I placed Scream/Wolf in my favorites an 1970's Horror Realm on- my Youtube channel gesturgesturestears if you want to see it. I'M not sure if it's the same.

gesturestear Wrote:
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> Would Dead End by David Case be the same as the
> movie "Scream of the Wolf" from 1974, with Peter
> Graves, he also wrote a story featured in the
> Peter Cushing movie "As the Sceaming Starts". The
> movie is on YouTube and I placed Scream/Wolf in my
> favorites an 1970's Horror Realm on- my Youtube
> channel gesturgesturestears if you want to see it.
> I'M not sure if it's the same.


I don't think I've ever seen "Scream Of The Wolf" , so I don't know if there is a connection with David Case . At first , I thought you were refering to an American TV movie set in Louisiana with David Jansen and Bradford Dillman , but that turns out to have been called "Moon Of The Wolf" .

companioneam of the Wolf is an obscure 1974 movie, available on YouTube. According to IMBD the story is based on David Case's The Hunter, but could use motifs based on another, it just seems coincendental. I'm sure the movie is never as good as the wild imaginations of a wierd style writer. Very little CAS is possible on celluiod, except for Vincent Price Night Gallery episode Return of the Sorcerer.
Otherwise I am half way through David Lindsay's Voyage to Arcturus and am kind of stuck. Although wildily imaginative, I feel like I'm on one of CAS's lost weird worlds. Except Oi feel no sense of urgency, or impending doom beyond the horizon. I'm wandering around
being guided by unisex (?) companions and am curious to know if this is weird science fiction or am I building up to some conflict that would be weird pulp fiction.
I will still finish the story but may move on for awhile and explore some of the other writers that have been mentioned previously.
I want to study the similiarities between EAP's The Narrative of Artur Gordon Pumped and HPL's At the Mountains of Madness. I started Arturus thinking it was of similiar lineage.

Aside from the Antarctic setting, scattered uses of the word/phrase "Tekeli-li!" (which neither writer explains, but rather uses atmospherically or suggestively), and a few references to "Pym" in MM... there really is no concrete relationship. HPL does, I think, deliberately play on the suggestion that Pym encountered something related to what Dyer & Co. come across, but this is done in an extremely tenuous fashion; again, more for allusiveness and atmospheric suggestion rather than as a direct link.

As for Arcturus... I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "thinking it was of similar lineage". Do you mean a similar type of story, or are you suggesting a closer connection than this? If the latter, I'd be curious what led you to this idea....

You don't believe in the similiarities in the works EAP "Narration of Arthur Pym" and HPL's "At the Mountains of Madness"?
They both are narratives of journeys to the South Pole that epitomizes each of their rather unusual length. Although Poe does not use a earlier pre- existing "Cthulu Mythology" (although not in the Cthulu aresenal, a simplistic explanation that I hope we can agree)
Also interesting is that in New Zealand fossolized penguins remains show that they may have reached heights of 6 to 8 feet. I just wonder what inspiration HP took, his supposedly intolerance of the cold, the quest for scientific progress in unkown knowledge of forgotten or forbidded knowledge. I do not think it is a weird question, but I should have expected your attitude towards me for I believe you don't particularly enjoy my company.
I am also interested in Poe's transferance of souls, Life's and HPL's physical transfetance of body and soul, Thing on the Doorstep, and Case of Charles Dexter Ward.
I may not be a writer but I am more of a free thinking analytical thinker. I enjoy finding similiarities where others may refuse to think they exist, closed minded and quick to question the integrity of the bringer of conflict.
The only writer that I can not find any other direct similarities is CAS. Obviously a lonely childhood that he encased his imagination in a plethora of literature composed of numerous idealogies, so that he was able to create his own authentic prose that can not be directly related, the closest being HPL.
I may be wrong,for I am not a HPL, CAS ,EAP editorial bibliographer but just a enthusiastic reader of the weird and strange pulp fiction.
My reason for David Lindsay was only to find other similiar writers and question why you would ask me for my intent on reading. Isn't the fact that I am reading these stories and asking question enough for me to a freshman member* of the Eldritch Dark? And as a valued elder of this fine group, is it not in your best interest to guide me, not question me. I tried to explain as best I could.to find out what other readers of Arcturus always seem to have a little a hesitation in recomending and I am starting to understand, am I reading Science Fiction or pulp fiction?

Although I proofed my post, my moblie keyboard inputs words after I input them. I was referring to EAP's
Ligea not Life's posted. That should make the soul transferance analogu easier to understand. This has happened more times than I like to admit and Googles predictive text is not working well for me.
Thanks

gesturestear: If it seemed I was criticizing you by asking the questions, I apologize. I was not. I am simply curious as to what you had come across which may have led you to expect Arcturus to be in the same vein (if that is what you were saying; as I noted, I am not entirely sure about that, which is why I asked for clarification -- to understand). In other words, I am simply asking a friendly question out of curiosity as part of the discussion.

As for my not liking your company -- no, that is not the case. I realize my original response to you a while back came off as sharper than I intended, for which I apologize. In part this was due to what was going on with me at the time, and also to frequent encounters with people expressing such views rather belligerently. I should not have assumed this in your case, but multiple experiences do tend to predispose....

On the connections between Pym and MM... as I said, there are surface points, but they are minor as far as the actual texts go (hence my stressing of the word "concrete" in my earlier post). I do think HPL found Pym suggestive (see his remarks in "Supernatural Horror in Literature", for instance), and perhaps this sparked his own creative imagination; but direct links are lacking. However, in a case such as this, I also think an individual reader can certainly perceive relationships between the two, using an imaginative reading of Poe in a Lovecraftian light, nor is there anything wrong with that; any more than there is in seeing the connections between Chambers' King in Yellow and Lovecraft -- very slight connections which have been played on by many writers since, often to rather good effect. So I've no objection to your reading it in that light, I simply am going on the evidence to argue that any larger connections are things we tend to project into these, rather than necessarily being there originally.

As for HPL's inspirations... well, yes, his reaction to the cold is certainly one; and the imaginative stimulus of Poe's novel is likely another; there is also his lifelong fascination with Antarctic exploration, some of his early (and no longer extant) scientific writings being on this subject, for example. Also, as with Venus, the very mystery of the setting set his imagination afire, especially given the common idea that life existed there at such an early period in earth's history. I'm curious as to how you read -- that is, the significance you might see in -- the references to Kadath in his Antarctic novel. To me, this is actually a very significant element because of the way it reflects on and alters the possible reading of his Dreamlands novel. So I would be very interested in any thoughts you might have on that aspect.

As for CAS's uniqueness... I think you aren't far wrong there, though I do see certain influences on him, from Poe and Sterling to the Decadents, particularly Baudelaire, but also writers such as Gautier, for instance. I also see the influence of Beckford's Vathek on his work, both his early verse and tales, and his later fantasy works as well. But he decidedly took his own way with these influences. So, whether or not CAS was truly sui generis, he most assuredly had a voice of his own, and one which I am glad to see still resonates with a number of people.

On the possible connections between Poe's use of metempsychosis and HPL's similar use of this (more in "The Tomb", I would say, than Ward, where it is simply a matter of killing the original and taking his place -- something which dates back to a very early story idea he had when he was a child), this is certainly a strong possibility, given his fascination with Poe and the fact that he was in fact a rather good Poe scholar himself. (Prof. T. O. Mabbott credits him with both having been the first to correctly address the theme of Poe's "Usher" and the identification of "Mount Yaanek" in "Ulalume"). Kudos on that one, and again, I'd be interested in further comments from you on that theme.

As I've said before, disagreement does not necessarily connote disrespect, so please don't take offense when you encounter it on such points. Rather, develop your theme and lay out your arguments for your position, as these may well prove of interest not only to me, but to others here as well. At the very least, it gives a different perspective to discuss....

I appreciate your candor and am happy that I do not cause a thorn in your pocket. I can only hope that your literary rerence for further analogy is not an attempt to bury me with words.
I was hoping not to get too in depth with Lovecraft because I joined the Eldritch Dark to exore other stange fictional horror of the abyss.
I like your proposal better and have not thought of the lost pre- Cambrian era city discovered in the MM may actually be the entry portal into the Dream Quest of Kadath. It was often postulated I believe that there was a hole in the center ( or bottom of the earth) that possessed unknown power. I still do think we have reached and fully explored this area as it is covered with massively dense ice and it once was a tropical area so long ago that man can not really fathom that amount of time frame, 600 million years or 1.2 billion years, we can not be aware of the change, but Locecraft may be one of the earliest writers to think in such unimaginable depths.
I suppose I will go back to Arcturus and wander around, drinking greenish clear liquids that seem to carry all necessary elements, cllimbing mountains without effort. I was just curious if there was any impending doom like dark clouds from hell or life extenguishing bliss of suicide as featured in CAS "City of the Singing Flame".

Your post reminds me of another element which I had forgotten to mention; one which almost certainly had an influence on Dream-Quest, and quite possibly on MM as well: John Uri Lloyd's odd little book, Etidorpha. There are great stretches of this one which are dry and didactical, but at times it has some absolutely stunning concepts and imagery, and if you can wade through the pseudophilosophical babble, you might find it worth your time. By the way... are you aware of Lovecraft's early letter to the Providence Sunday Journal concerning the Hollow Earth theory? While he put no stock in it realistically, that isn't to say that he didn't find it suggestive -- once modified -- for fictional purposes....

I was reading the Lovecraft online e-magazine and there was an interesting article about a Russian drilling project about 200 miles from the epi-center of the continent and they had discovered a lake Boneless about the size of Lake Ontario, it remains liquid because of geo-thermal activity. The article was from Feb- 2012 and they would have to wait until summer to drill the last several hundred feet and there is considerable debate about contaminantion. Not just worried about obtaining a clean sample but long buried loopmicrobes that may release disease resistant microbes into the current environment that we can not control.
There is a link that updates the progress and 40 litres of water was syphoned off on Jan. 12 ,2013. I guess nothing was found in the water but it is believed to be about 200 million years old and was located in tropical "Pangea" I believe.
Further information on other drilling sites have shown different results, using a Google search.
Considering HP's obsession with Antarctica and Richard Byrd's trans-continental voyage and his prior map treaties that he wrote I think it is only proper to pay repects, realizing that only one hundred years have passed, a blip in Earth time, and we are experimenting with a foriegn environment as unknown as the oceans of Titan.
I also was reading and ST Joshi has or is already documenting the history of events in retospect of HP's idealogy. I just recently came across Joshi's notes on this and am curious to hear his ideas. I could be wrong and Joshi may call me out, I am just postulating. I love when weird fiction becomes reality

Google predictive word text still plagues my writing. Lake Vostek not Boneless. I wouldn't be suprised if one of the shoggoths name is actually Google.

gesturestear Wrote:
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> I also was reading and ST Joshi has or is already
> documenting the history of events in retospect of
> HP's idealogy. I just recently came across Joshi's
> notes on this and am curious to hear his ideas. I
> could be wrong and Joshi may call me out, I am
> just postulating. I love when weird fiction
> becomes reality


I'm wondering how recent your information is on this; not because I doubt it, but because he has already done a book on Lovecraft's philosophy in relation to his fiction, as well as many of the sources of that philosophy: H. P. Lovecraft: The Decline of the West. I believe it is currently in print, so you may want to look it up.

On the other hand, if there is something new coming out, I'd like to know more about that, as well....

The information I gathered is from January 11, 2013; so no I do not know of anyone else’s documentation besides my own investigation using an idea I got from Mike Davis’s E-magazine; Lovecraftzine.com. The particular article starts in an early 2012 issue:
[lovecraftzine.com]

This magazine is endorsed by Joshi, and when documenting further developments I came across Joshi’s name referenced in some way to the magazine and like I said, I was only postulating, and was only advancing a theory that Lovecraft was immersed in and am sure that he would love to know this information, even if posthumously. If this isn’t current information directly related to HP then I do not know what is.
The second article is the findings from just this month on the drilling;
[news.discovery.com]

I am sorry I used Joshi’s name without verifying verbatim his words, all I said was I read Joshi’s notes and am curious to hear his ideas, and that I could be wrong and just postulating.
I started this thread with an innocent comment and you seem to be stringing me along on a leash, making me elaborate on my intentions.

To change the subject back to New Literature; the last book that I read that really captivated me and really scared me was Jeff Long’s 1999 book The Descent. There was a movie with the same name, but is not based on the book, although the movie can be related to about two pages total of the book.
This story has a level of Dante’s hell, as a group of hikers climbing a mountain come across a hidden tunnel, and further developments take them through an underground labyrinth that is reminiscent of the hollow earth theory. Some parts of the book reminded me of CAS’s The Seven Geases, journey through abyssal depths, reaching various rendezvous catacombs deep underground in a world and with an underground society of humans descended from modern man eons ago. The final depths also reminded me of the HP’s The Beast in the Cave, as the prisoners are left to wander in the dark tunnels, knowing there is some evil entity that is following them, which turns out to be a similar species, kept down in the darkness away from the light.
I was captivated by the book after reading the first one hundred pages of set-up, I was unable to put the book down. Although in hindsight there are a few flaws, and a third story line about the military trying to access the tunnels for their own security. It also reminded me of William Dietrich’s excellent book that has underground tunnels that link underneath the Pacific to the Egyptian and Inca’s pyramids and I think somewhere off the Bermuda Triangle. He also theorizes the Jewish escape from Egypt with the scrolls and the ark of the covenant. Although not mysterious strange fiction an excellent exciting piece of fiction that makes you think what really happened. As for The Descent, everyone seems to believe that it is based on the movie or the reverse, don’t make the mistake of dismissing the book because you didn’t like the shallowness of the movie.
I hope this concludes our discussion on HP’s Mountain of Madness theory, for which I will keep to myself. I like to make connections where they might not exist, but I think sometime this extrapolation will be made and be of some interest.

Any comments on The Descent or William Dietrich would be interesting what other readers have thought.