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Averoigne based on Auvergne?
Posted by: Madog (IP Logged)
Date: 11 December, 2009 09:29PM
The Wikipedia entry for Averoigne states that it's located in the south of France and is based on the historical province of Auvergne. However, no citations are given for this information.

Can anyone substantiate this?

Re: Averoigne based on Auvergne?
Posted by: J. B. Post (IP Logged)
Date: 12 December, 2009 09:32AM
Averoigne is probably as much Auvergne as Arhkah is Salem; glamorized with elements of other places thrown in for good measure. It is interesting to note that just across the border of the old territory is the modern French department of Aveyron.

J. B. Post

Re: Averoigne based on Auvergne?
Posted by: J. B. Post (IP Logged)
Date: 12 December, 2009 09:36AM
Sorry, reread the question. This equivalence has become pretty much folk wisdom, possibly based on the similarity of names. Perhaps Smith confided the derivation somewhere, but I don't know where it is stated. Be interesting to see a map which had Averoigne, Joiry, and Poictesme on it.

JBP

Re: Averoigne based on Auvergne?
Posted by: casofile (IP Logged)
Date: 12 December, 2009 12:18PM
"Smith’s delightful yet horrific conception of medieval France was apparently derived from the historical province of Auvergne, located in the Massif Central of south-central France which rises abruptly just west of the Rhône-Saône valley, and inclining north to the Paris basin and west to the basin of Aquitaine. This sparsely populated region is indeed semi-mountainous, well forested, and the source of many French rivers as the poet-author describes it, but here the correlation ends and Smith’s fertile imagination takes over. Aside from acknowledging certain powerful influences such as the Druids and Paganism, the Romans and the Holy Roman Church, Averoigne owes little or nothing to actual French history─yet retains the full flavor of medieval France."

This excerpt from the Note on the Text for THE AVEROIGNE CHRONICLES was written more years ago than I care to mention, but still directly addresses this topic. I also created a map, which was published many years ago in "Fungi" magazine; and, if I recall correctly, this version indicated that "Poictesme" was located just over the border. (strictly tongue-in-cheek, of course)

Coincidentally, I received an email from Robert Wiener (of Grant Publishers)earlier this week which included the cover stamping and endpaper designs from Tom Canty, the lack of which has been holding up the project for the last several years. Does this mean that the THE AVEROIGNE CHRONICLES will at last be published? I wish I could say yes, but experience tells me to continue to have patience. I've also heard a rumor that Stephen King has an idea for yet another "Dark Tower" novel, which could mean another lengthy delay unless we're able to get the CAS book out first. On the other hand, progress is still progress!

-Ron

Re: Averoigne based on Auvergne?
Posted by: jimrockhill2001 (IP Logged)
Date: 12 December, 2009 01:37PM
casofile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Coincidentally, I received an email from Robert
> Wiener (of Grant Publishers)earlier this week
> which included the cover stamping and endpaper
> designs from Tom Canty, the lack of which has been
> holding up the project for the last several years.
> Does this mean that the THE AVEROIGNE CHRONICLES
> will at last be published? I wish I could say yes,
> but experience tells me to continue to have
> patience. I've also heard a rumor that Stephen
> King has an idea for yet another "Dark Tower"
> novel, which could mean another lengthy delay
> unless we're able to get the CAS book out first.
> On the other hand, progress is still progress!
>
> -Ron

This is encouraging news, Ron. I sincerely hope it means that your volume is close to publication! I have been looking forward to this for many years. Shameful of D. G. to delay the project this long.

Jim

Re: Averoigne based on Auvergne?
Posted by: Madog (IP Logged)
Date: 13 December, 2009 11:55PM
casofile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Smith’s delightful yet horrific conception of
> medieval France was apparently derived from the
> historical province of Auvergne, located in the
> Massif Central of south-central France

Doh! It never occured to me that the location of Averoigne is where Auvergne is. Considering all the other information I've managed to scrape together from tenuous associations, I'm surprised I missed this one. Thanks, Ron.


> I also created a map, which
> was published many years ago in "Fungi" magazine;
> and, if I recall correctly, this version indicated
> that "Poictesme" was located just over the border.
> (strictly tongue-in-cheek, of course)

A map, you say? The only map I've ever found have been versions of the map from the D&D module X2: Castle Amber bu Tom Moldvay. I think Moldvay made the map up. It does seem to be far too large considering the traveling times mentioned in CAS's stories. I address this in the gazetteer I'm producing.

I'd love to see another map of Averoigne, especially one with such a large scope!

Re: Averoigne based on Auvergne?
Posted by: casofile (IP Logged)
Date: 14 December, 2009 12:39PM
Madog Wrote:

> A map, you say? The only map I've ever found have
> been versions of the map from the D&D module X2:
> Castle Amber bu Tom Moldvay. I think Moldvay made
> the map up. It does seem to be far too large
> considering the traveling times mentioned in CAS's
> stories. I address this in the gazetteer I'm
> producing.

There have actually been a few maps of Averoigne created over the years, but I'd like to think mine was the first! The D&D map you mention is pretty rough, as I recall. But Tim Kirk did a pretty nice one, along with Zothique, Hyperborea and Poseidonis, the four of which I believe Scott reprinted for a REHupa mailing?

In general the maps are pretty similar, with Vyones in the North and Ximes in the South. The Highway runs North--South connecting these two main towns and the River Isoile also winds its way from North to South and empties into a marsh near the Southern border, and of course the Forest of Averoigne kind of surrounds everything.

> I'd love to see another map of Averoigne,
> especially one with such a large scope!

I only have hard copies of my original and the Tim Kirk map, but could email you another pretty interesting one I picked up somewhere online. I can't send out the map for the Grant book yet (just in case it actually gets published sometime this century) But if you'd like, contact me off-list and I'd be happy to send along what I can.

-Ron

Re: Averoigne based on Auvergne?
Posted by: Scott Connors (IP Logged)
Date: 21 December, 2009 02:24PM
Phillip Rahman had an essay about this subject in CRYPT OF CTHULHU 26, IIRC.

Scott

Re: Averoigne based on Auvergne?
Posted by: Gavin Callaghan (IP Logged)
Date: 31 December, 2009 06:30PM
Scott Connors Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Phillip Rahman had an essay about this subject in
> CRYPT OF CTHULHU 26, IIRC.
>
> Scott

I was wondering- anyone know if HPL's mention of Averoigne or Auvergne (I don't have the exact text at hand) in "Psychopompos" predates CAS's use of the area in his works? Or was it derived from CAS's works?

Or did HPL and CAS both make use the area in their works separately from each other?

Re: Averoigne based on Auvergne?
Posted by: Martinus (IP Logged)
Date: 1 January, 2010 08:41AM
"Psychopompos" (which mentions Auvergne) was written in late 1917--summer 1918, so it predates CAS's Averoigne stories.

Re: Averoigne based on Auvergne?
Posted by: Gavin Callaghan (IP Logged)
Date: 1 January, 2010 05:11PM
Martinus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Psychopompos" (which mentions Auvergne) was
> written in late 1917--summer 1918, so it predates
> CAS's Averoigne stories.

Thanks! I think Sabine Baring-Gould's works mention werewolf-lore associated with Auvergne, so HPL might have gotten it from there...



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