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Re: A. E. Coppard?
Posted by: Scott Connors (IP Logged)
Date: 5 November, 2010 10:12PM
Kirk considered politics as rising from morality, and his moral views definitely infuse his ghostly tales. This is generally not a problem, but his novel LORD OF THE HOLLOW DARK suffers from caricatures and straw men, ie a Japanese abortionist who thought it was "great" for women to "have fun" and then let him deal with the unwanted consequences.

One aspect of Kirk's aesthetic that fascinates me is that it is directly opposite that of CAS. Kirk's mentor was Irving Babbitt, and he was an authority on T. S. Eliot, and embraced the very "vitalism" that drove CAS to distraction. His tales are by intention didactic, meant to impart moral precepts, yet they are still very frightening.

Re: Russell Kirk
Posted by: jimrockhill2001 (IP Logged)
Date: 6 November, 2010 05:52AM
Like Scott, I find that, although Kirk's moral stance is clear in all of his stories, the only one of those it comes close to ruining (or in my case, almost thoroughly ruining) is the late novel, THE LONG HOLLOW DARK. All the rest of his supernatural fiction (with the possible exception of "The Princess of All Lands", which also treads a bit close to the tract) works extremely well as supernatural fiction, despite Kirk's politics, because he plots well, creates convincing characters, and builds his climaxes effectively.

THE LONG HOLLOW DARK should have been a tour de force, since it gathers several characters from Kirk's earlier work, and expands upon "Balgrummo's Hell", but as Scott has already mentioned, it is a messy caricature of a novel. Anyone remember the bigoted screeds the Republican candidate Pat Buchanan - an otherwise articulate gentleman - would let loose while campaigning some years ago? Imagine his targets given a shadowy life and plumped into a Dantesque plot, and you have this novel.

Re: A. E. Coppard?
Posted by: Absquatch (IP Logged)
Date: 6 November, 2010 08:59AM
Thanks for the comments regarding Kirk; I'll give him another try. I may be especially sensitive to politicized characters and situations where I feel they do not belong. For instance, in the one Kirk tale that I've read, there is an intrusive federal agent who is a bit of a caricature, and who comes to a predictably bad end. The story had otherwise worthwhile elements, though.

Apropos of Aickman, one thing I find frustrating about his work is that his more successful efforts (I am thinking of "Pages from a Young Girl's Journal" and "Ringing the Changes", in particular) demonstrate that the obscurantism isn't necessary, that he can write a successful shadowy tale without overdoing the ambiguity.

Re: A. E. Coppard?
Posted by: Jojo Lapin X (IP Logged)
Date: 6 November, 2010 09:48AM
Absquatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Apropos of Aickman, one thing I find frustrating
> about his work is that his more successful efforts
> (I am thinking of "Pages from a Young Girl's
> Journal" and "Ringing the Changes", in particular)
> demonstrate that the obscurantism isn't necessary,
> that he can write a successful shadowy tale
> without overdoing the ambiguity.

This is like saying, since we know Picasso knew how to draw naturalistic human figures, why did he do that weird stuff?

Re: A. E. Coppard?
Posted by: Absquatch (IP Logged)
Date: 6 November, 2010 09:58AM
Quote:
This is like saying, since we know Picasso knew how to draw naturalistic human figures, why did he do that weird stuff?

Not really, because the difference between Aickman's various tales is one of degree, whereas the Picasso analogy describes a fundamental difference in kind.

If, however, you are trying to say that Aickman did what he did by choice, then I certainly agree. My point is merely that, for my taste, the tales that strike a closer balance between ambiguity and explicitness are more successful.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 6 Nov 10 | 10:01AM by Absquatch.

Re: A. E. Coppard?
Posted by: Jojo Lapin X (IP Logged)
Date: 6 November, 2010 12:03PM
I prefer my Aickman as perplexing as possible.

Re: A. E. Coppard?
Posted by: casofile (IP Logged)
Date: 10 November, 2010 01:32PM
Absquatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the comments regarding Kirk; I'll give
> him another try. I may be especially sensitive to
> politicized characters and situations where I feel
> they do not belong. For instance, in the one Kirk
> tale that I've read, there is an intrusive federal
> agent who is a bit of a caricature, and who comes
> to a predictably bad end. The story had otherwise
> worthwhile elements, though.
>
I'm guessing the story in question is "Behind the Stumps" (one of the stories set in Pottawattomie County) in which a Census taker is given the unpleasant task of counting the residents of an area so far out in the sticks that no one in their right mind would bother with it. This agent is a completely anal and odious individual who prides himself in his precision and thoroughoness, and as mentioned, the ending is somewhat predictable.

What impressed me though, was the inexorable path this guy takes to his doom. It was like watching a train wreck in slow motion . . . I found myself thinking, "I can't believe this guy is actually going to try and find these people . . . I can't believe he's actually going into this apparently deserted house . . . I can't believe he's actually going up those stairs and into that pitch-black room!"
I thought the denouement was tremendous, and felt any political characterization was simply a device to move the story forward to its inevitable conclusion.

I've started reading THE PRINCESS OF ALL LANDS and I wasn't too impressed with the title story, which leads me to wonder if his early work is also his best.
-Ron

Re: A. E. Coppard?
Posted by: Absquatch (IP Logged)
Date: 10 November, 2010 06:59PM
Yes, "Behind the Stumps" is the one. You obviously like that tale better than I do, but, as I mentioned, I did find that it had promising aspects. It sounds as if it may be best to start with Kirk's earlier work, as you say.

Re: A. E. Coppard?
Posted by: cw67q (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2010 02:25PM
Absquatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> I think Ding Dong Bell reads like too much of the
>> same thing
>
> I couldn't possibly disagree with you more, but I
> am glad that someone is at least reading Ding Dong
> Bell!

You don't think that having all four stories in the collection centered around a series of poetic tombstone inscriptions reduceds the power of the individual tales?


By the time I reached the last entry (interment?), Strangers & Pilgrims, I was pretty wearied of the format even though I had previously found that quite an effective tale. S&P is the only story from DDB that I can cleraly distinguish from the others after only a fortnight has elasped since reading the selection, though granted that says at least as much about my memory as it does about the stories: generaly it is the sesne of atmosphere that sticks with me if anything does, the plot details soon evaporate. And I'll admit to not being overly appreciative of poetry embedded within fiction unless it is short and to the point.

- Chris

Re: A. E. Coppard?
Posted by: Absquatch (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2010 05:12PM
Quote:
You don't think that having all four stories in the collection centered around a series of poetic tombstone inscriptions reduceds the power of the individual tales?

No, I think it increases their power, actually. De gustibus...

Re: A. E. Coppard?
Posted by: cw67q (IP Logged)
Date: 14 November, 2010 03:49AM
Well I'm glad it worked that way for yourself, Absquatch, unfotrunately it had the opposite effect for myself.

regards - Chris


Absquatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You don't think that having all four stories in
> the collection centered around a series of poetic
> tombstone inscriptions reduceds the power of the
> individual tales?
>
> No, I think it increases their power, actually. De
> gustibus...

Re: A. E. Coppard?
Posted by: Absquatch (IP Logged)
Date: 14 November, 2010 08:24AM
Chris,

What can I say? I am a taphophile, like de la Mare, himself. ;-)

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