Sorry to hear about this situation, Dr. Farmer; for what it is worth coming from a stranger -- my best wishes to both of you through this.

No, I wouldn't want to see "gay" relegated to (or even predominantly associated with) this usage; it is much too wonderful a word for that.

jdworth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry to hear about this situation, Dr. Farmer;
> for what it is worth coming from a stranger -- my
> best wishes to both of you through this.
>
> No, I wouldn't want to see "gay" relegated to (or
> even predominantly associated with) this usage; it
> is much too wonderful a word for that.


I echo J. D. in wishing you my best wishes as you help your son to heal from this experience. I admire so much anyone who loves classic Literature as you do, and I shall miss your erudite postings. Please return as soon as possible.

"I'm a little girl."
--H. P. Lovecraft, Esq.

calonlan wrote:
> improper usage, and badly formulated words
> enter the lexicon through ignorant and corrupt
> usage

calonlan also wrote:
> attempting rectify the
> stupidity of the general public is like removing
> Everest with a Tea Spoon

Fascinating. I must say I fail to understand why average native English-speakers using the natural lexicogenic processes of their own language (and back-clipping is certainly highly productive nowadays) should be considered more stupid than the average Latin-speakers who lived two millenia ago and -- as a matter of fact -- did exactly the same thing with the linguistic elements then at their disposal... to the utter indignation of the calonlans of those times. ;-)

Chipougne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> calonlan wrote:
> > improper usage, and badly formulated words
> > enter the lexicon through ignorant and corrupt
> > usage
>
> calonlan also wrote:
> > attempting rectify the
> > stupidity of the general public is like
> removing
> > Everest with a Tea Spoon
>
> Fascinating. I must say I fail to understand why
> average native English-speakers using the natural
> lexicogenic processes of their own language (and
> back-clipping is certainly highly productive
> nowadays) should be considered more stupid than
> the average Latin-speakers who lived two millenia
> ago and -- as a matter of fact -- did exactly the
> same thing with the linguistic elements then at
> their disposal... to the utter indignation of the
> calonlans of those times. ;-)


There are forces working against good usage which, more than stupidity, work against good usage - good usage is necessary to create good writing and poetry - I have no objection to the evolution of meaning wherein the thrust of the original intent may be traced - example to follow - I object to words pretending to be what they are not, as in a serious definition of an actual diagnosed syndrome as opposed to illiterate word (based on etymology) that is pretending to be the latter, while in fact only serving as a pejorative -
an example - Prevent - in Shakespeare's day, this word took its meaning strictly from its Latin roots - ie, one thing occurring before another - to "come before" - "pre-venire" - so it is in Psalm 151 verse 119 in the King James Version, "I prevented the dawning of the morning" - meaning he got up before sunrise. This word now is used almost exclusively in the sense of some form of intervention, or stoppage before something else happens -
So you hear the fundamentalist preacher speaking of "stopping the sun from rising". Yet the retention of the sense of one action taking place before another is retained in the modern sense. Not, in other words an utter disconnect with its roots. I know that attempting to rectify the use of "impact" is hopeless, especially with the media telling us that "hurricane Katrina impacted the people of New Orleans" - but I cannot suppress a smile at such reporting since it conjures in my mind a very peculiar scene - In my experience, hurricanes create fear with the opposite of "impaction" taking place more commonly - (wry, academic chuckle - "sweet are the uses of obscurity".

wilum pugmire Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To use the term "anti-gay" would mean that we
> agree that "gay=homosexual," and I find this
> extremely debatable. Although I use "gay" at
> times when I describe my sexuality, I prefer such
> terms as "queer" or "perverse."

"Gay" has the value of brevity -but also the debit of not covering lesbian, bi-sexual, transgendered, hermaphroditic, castrati opera singers and palace guards, transsexual pre-ops, bi-curious, and all the rest from that unending clown car of sexual ambiguity...

"Queer" and "perverse", unfortunately, are also just vague enough to cover me, and people like me, as well (pulls out gas mask, and starts whimpering, "Mommy....Mommy...") [with apologies to David Lynch and the late Dennis Hopper-]

I wrote a long, long essay on HPL and his use of the word "unnamable", which deals in-depth with the related topic of Lovecraft's use of the word "queer", which you might find interesting.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 24 Oct 11 | 04:41PM by Gavin Callaghan.

wilum pugmire wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------
> Sprague's homophobia was common at the time, and
> his remarks were made in what I now see was a
> friendly way. I reacted violently because I had
> just gone through Mormon therapy, with the church
> trying to "cure" me, and it was such an unpleasant
> experience that I over-reacted when anyone try'd
> to censor my rad queer nature. It was at this
> time that I dropped out of the Lovecraft/weird
> fiction community and began to explore various
> lifestyles, which eventually led to the punk rock
> lifestyle that saved my soul.

Engaging maximal components of my own homophobia, one of the maximally maximal is the vile and perverted things progressively engaged members of the gay community do to the English language.

"I am the Way, the Truth and the Lifestyle, Jesus said. Suffer members of the juvenile community in the pre-medial-height sub-demographic to come unto me, and I will teach them to be gasbags for the Rainbow Alliance of Imagine-There's-No-Heaven..."

But if I'd been born gay and endured a Mormon 'cure' myself, I might be gassing and you, if you HADN'T, might be criticizing me for it. So don't take the above personally... Beside, I'm a member of a minority myself in the concurrent Lovecraft/weird fiction community: I don't believe in the majority's religion.....