Sup, dudes.

I recently bought my first Clark Smith book, an old copy of Lost Worlds in hardback and I must say, I REALLY enjoyed it, much more so than Lovecraft or Howard, whose works I did not particularly care for.

So this thread shall be dedicated to those of you who wish to post about any of the Smith stories that you particularly enjoyed - Thus far my favourites would have to be the Hyperborean and Zothiquean tales, particularly The Door to Saturn/The Tale of Satampra Zeiros, and Empire of the Necromancers/Isle of the Torturers. I think my single favourite is "Saturn". It is such a dark fantasy epic, and I loved Eibon, and Morghi too, and I wish there were more stories like that in Lost Worlds.

I would also like to request some opinions about my next Smith title - I figured I would see if I could find a copy of Out of Space and Time; would that be the wisest choice or is there another you feel I should seek out first?

Thanks for reading; replies most welcome.

Good luck with this question. My tastes generally overlap with your own. That is to say that I prefer his fantasies (most of his Zothique cycle, with 'Yondo' and 'Singing Flame' also coming to mind), then to a lesser extent his horrors and lastly his SF stuff. There are some exceptions tho, I do love his Mars-based tales, which have little in common with his Volmar tales, which I can take or leave... (mainly leave) But there are exceptions, I do deeply love 'Master of the Asteroid' and I think 'Double cosmos' is excellent. Both very cosmic too. I also am very fond of 'Nemesis of the Unfinished,' which seems to stand on its own with its (probably accidental) post-modernism... I find it hard to pin down a list of favourites with CAS as there are so many tales that are on a par with each other. Whereas, I think Lovecraft can be boiled down to ten or so outstanding tales, CAS's oeuvre, to me, has a great breadth, even if he doesn't probably reach the same heights as Mountains of Madness, 'Innsmouth,' 'Colour,' etc... Others may disagree...

Off topic, but I'm reading Machen's Hill of Dreams at the moment and can't help but wonder how great would a similar voyage of artistic awakening and mythic place be in his hands...

While I don't agree with you on the Lovecraft (I continue to find a richness to even his minor tales, even after four decades' revisiting them), I also think Smith has more to offer than is commonly known (so far). Just as an example: I recall, several years ago, getting into an argument with someone who was convinced CAS was simply a "horror writer", and I kept trying to show this person that his range was much, much wider than that, and that even his fantasies ran across a rather wide spectrum of mood and tone; not to mention his poetry.... Now, I am encountering a wide range of readers from around the world who are already becoming aware of his diversity as well as his unique voice, and relishing it; something I am very glad to see.

As for the opening post: Out of Space and Time certaily has many of his best works in it, among them several of my personal favorites: "A Night in Malnéant", "The Uncharted Isle", "The Double Shadow", "The Chain of Aforgomon", "The Dark Eidolon", "The Last Hieroglyph", "Sadastor", "The Vaults of Yoh-Vombis", and the prose-poems, "From the Crypts of Memory" and "The Shadows". I'm also quite partial to "The Door to Saturn", "The Death of Malygris", "The Last Incantation", "The Empire of the Necromancers", "The City of the Singing Flame", "The Flower-Women", "The Treader of the Dust", "Genius Loci", "The Abominations of Yondo", "Mother of Toads", and "Morthylla", as well as several of his prose-poems.

jdworth Wrote:
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> While I don't agree with you on the Lovecraft (I
> continue to find a richness to even his minor
> tales, even after four decades' revisiting them)

Oh, I totally agree. I didn't mean that his lesser work is lesser in the greater scheme of things, just that there are some very obvious stories (mostly later ones but not exclusively) that show off such a beautiful Cosmic perspective that they don't leave much room for his relatively minor work if, say, I had to list his ten greatest works. But don't get me wrong, I don't see anything wrong with, for instance, 'The Picture in the House,' which might not be up there with the sheer ambition of 'The Call of Cthulhu,' is still pretty impressive by any standards. Indeed, it is a testament to Lovecraft that this tale, hardly one of his most famous, has such depth and hidden eeriness underpinning its more overt horror qualities. While superficially it doesn't seem to be much different from much of the fare to be found in an average Pan Book of Horror Stories, yet in terms of sophistication it is a master class in subtle storytelling. Actually, i think it would probably make the cut in my top ten favourite Lovecraft tales if I could be arsed with constructing such a thing. But I don't think it would be widely considered so.

Whereas, with Smith I find it far harder to pin down my favourites. Possibly because his tales are less overtly conceptual and story driven than Lovecraft. To be honest when CAS is writing at the top of his game, I'm not particularly concerned about which of his stories I'm actually reading... Hmmmm... I think sometimes soon after consuming Miscellaneous Writings I'm going to have to re-read Smith.

Thank you for the clarification. Given the above statement, I think we're in very close agreement on the matter. As for Smith's work... there are still pieces I've not read, though I should be doing a fair amount of that soon, as I'll be reading (or, in many cases, re-reading) a lot of the writings of the various contributors to Weird Tales, as well as members of what is frequently called "the Lovecraft Circle". (And, despite my love for HPL and his work, I have some problems with that label, given the abilities of some of the members of that group, especially CAS.) While I have read an enormous amount of this material over the years, there is also a fair amount I have not read by some of them, and I am trying to put various things into context in my mind... not to mention having an excuse to revisit several things for which I have quite a fondness....

At any rate, CAS had more range, in his work for the professional magazines, than did HPL when it comes to types of tales, and that adds a layer when deciding on what may fit into a list of one's "favorites"; something which can vary depending on the frame of reference, I think.

For the sheer pleasure of putting up a list, here are my favourites:

* The Abominations of Yondo
* The Door to Saturn
* The Weird of Avoosl What’s-his-name
* The Empire of the Necromancers
* The Seed from the Sepulcher
* The Double Shadow
* The Isle of the Torturers
* The Death of Malygris
* The Coming of the White Worm
* The Seven Geases (does anybody know how to pronounce that last word?)
* The Treader of the Dust

To qualify the above a little: I have so far read about 75% of CAS's weird fiction. The excellent Fantasy Masterworks collection The Emperor of Dreams was my real introduction, although I had already read 'The Death of Ilalotha' when I was 11 (and was bored by it, not too surprisingly). What ultimately sparked my interest in CAS was a quotation from 'The Abominations of Yondo' used in the computer game NetHack.

I also discovered John Ruskin thanks to a computer game, but that's another story.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, dudes.

Perhaps I've judged Lovecraft too quickly, after all I read only a single collection of his... "Dream Cycle" or something like that (all the reviews kept telling me that was the Lovecraft book to buy), and did not finish a single story within it because I simply did not like the stories one bit; the style of writing, mainly. I just didn't feel it. Although the story about the cats was decent... So anyway, it might be I'll check out "At the Mountains of Madness" and some other ones you guys mentioned.

Also thanks to Mr. JDWorth, I shall be seeking out a copy of Out of Space and Time pronto.

Lastly, I, also, do not know the pronunciation of Geases, and have not heard of the man John Ruskin.

Avoosl Wuthoqquan Wrote:

> * The Seven Geases (does anybody know how to
> pronounce that last word?)

This may be of help:


[en.wikipedia.org]

[en.wiktionary.org]

I believe that gease is pronounced like geisha but without the final vowel sound.

Scott via Ron's computer

Avoosl Wuthoqquan Wrote:
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> For the sheer pleasure of putting up a list, here
> are my favourites:
>
> * The Abominations of Yondo
> * The Door to Saturn
> * The Weird of Avoosl What’s-his-name
> * The Empire of the Necromancers
> * The Seed from the Sepulcher
> * The Double Shadow
> * The Isle of the Torturers
> * The Death of Malygris
> * The Coming of the White Worm
> * The Seven Geases (does anybody know how to
> pronounce that last word?)
> * The Treader of the Dust

Hard to argue with the above selection...

A. R. E. Susin Wrote:
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> Thanks for taking the time to reply, dudes.
>
> Perhaps I've judged Lovecraft too quickly, after
> all I read only a single collection of his...
> "Dream Cycle" or something like that (all the
> reviews kept telling me that was the Lovecraft
> book to buy), and did not finish a single story
> within it because I simply did not like the
> stories one bit; the style of writing, mainly. I
> just didn't feel it. Although the story about the
> cats was decent... So anyway, it might be I'll
> check out "At the Mountains of Madness" and some
> other ones you guys mentioned.

I'm not sure exactly which collection of HP's you speak of, but probably the best place to start is Haunter of the Dark and Other Tales:

[www.amazon.com]

It's cheap and widely available and contains most of his best stories... There's also the Penguin editions, but they're more expensive, although they do contain the uncorrupted texts... However I have no idea of their respective story selections... If I was to recommend the best place to start with HP, I'd suggest 'Colour Out of Space' and 'Shadows Over Innsmouth' (both found in the book I suggested). If you don't like those, then I doubt that Lovecraft is for you...

The English Assassin Wrote:
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>
> I'm not sure exactly which collection of HP's you
> speak of, but probably the best place to start is
> Haunter of the Dark and Other Tales:
>
> [www.amazon.com]
> r-Other/dp/0586063234/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&q
> id=1322219165&sr=1-1
>
> It's cheap and widely available and contains most
> of his best stories...

And textually corrupt like all the Omnibus volumes. And it has an ugly cover.

There's also the Penguin
> editions, but they're more expensive, although
> they do contain the uncorrupted texts... However I
> have no idea of their respective story
> selections...

The Call of Cthulhu and Other Weird Stories -- the first volume -- has a very nice selection, as can be seen here [www.hplovecraft.com]

If I was to recommend the best place
> to start with HP, I'd suggest 'Colour Out of
> Space' and 'Shadows Over Innsmouth' (both found in
> the book I suggested). If you don't like those,
> then I doubt that Lovecraft is for you...

Both of those are in the Penguin book I recommended too.

Martinus Wrote:
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> -----
> Both of those are in the Penguin book I
> recommended too.

That's probably the way to go then, although I'm not sure, beyond the realm of Lovecraft fanatics (which I'm one), if corrupt texts really matters or not... Don't get me wrong, I'd sooner the texts were as right as they can be, but I for one was more than happy with the corrupt texts when I first got into Lovecraft... And as a cheap intro to his best work it's hard to ignore these no thrills editions.

Yes, you've got a point there, and to be honest, some of these errors -- such as "Inquanok" for "Inganok" -- don't really matter. But some do, such as the omitted subtitle for "The Call of Cthulhu" which actually adds pertinent information.

Martinus Wrote:
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> Yes, you've got a point there, and to be honest,
> some of these errors -- such as "Inquanok" for
> "Inganok" -- don't really matter. But some do,
> such as the omitted subtitle for "The Call of
> Cthulhu" which actually adds pertinent
> information.


Or the missing chunks of text from At the Mountains of Madness... that's quite a notable excision, in that case. There is also the subtle shift in the attitudes of the narrator by use of the word "unhuman" rather than "inhuman" later in that novel... which can completely alter the way the reader views the Old Ones, thus changing the feeling and emphasis of the latter portion of the story.

It appears that there really was an "Ubbo-Sathla."
[www.dailymail.co.uk]