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Re: The Real-fantastique
Posted by: Radovarl (IP Logged)
Date: 2 December, 2016 12:12PM
Knygatin Wrote:
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> I always hold a very sceptical stance towards such
> fantastically ludicrous explanations which lack
> all beauty and imagination.

Yet somehow you're simultaneously not being the least bit skeptical ;-). Yes, it would be neato keen if there were giant submarine worms burrowing in the muck, but there just doesn't seem to be any actual, you know, evidence for it. Boring as it may be, Ursula K. Le Guin was wrong when she wrote that, "truth is a matter of the imagination." Nothing wrong with fantasizing, but best to know when you're doing it--in the other direction lies madness.

Re: The Real-fantastique
Posted by: Knygatin (IP Logged)
Date: 3 December, 2016 04:55AM
I don't believe any of these things for certain. But I keep an open mind. And I choose to turn in the direction of the fantastic, and encourage investigation there, simply because that stance makes waking life more colorful and fun, and gives me more pleasure, than turning the other way by principle and choosing to look in the direction of the non-believers.

Also, people may not be aware of it themselves, but prefering to spend your time with fantasy and supernatural fiction, may be an indication that a person is not completely in tune with the real world. They perhaps believe they are in control of their fantasizing, even though they may be drifting. Off course, it they are at the same time able to be effective citizens in worldly matters, and competent in social function, it is alright. And those few who are able to make a successful career out of their fantasizing, at least they make something useful from it, and are (even if their mind is drifting) able to support a family by doing it.

Personally I am willing to sacrifice a bit of my sanity, if that is the price of enriching my imagination further. I see it as an alternate reality, with its own set of functioning truths.

Now, about those "submarine worms"! That is not what I see. Those tracks look to me more like they were left by some kind of large vehicles (or, if those giant mounds may possibly be of organic composition). It could be signs of hidden alien activity. Also, remember, that the ocean is very deep in those locations. No divers can reach there. They may send down deep-going submarines, but it's pitch-black, and these move very slowly. Scientists actually know very little of the deep oceans. Much is undiscovered, even for the most cynical of non-believers.

Re: The Real-fantastique
Posted by: Radovarl (IP Logged)
Date: 3 December, 2016 08:58AM
I suppose I subscribe to the same school of thought, and I don't rule out much in principle, especially when it comes to the "natural" world. As cynical as I am about the human world, however, I draw the line at conspiracy theories in which some nefarious and nebulous group of government officials is trying to keep the true nature of reality hidden from us poor ignorant plebes. Imagination in the service of science is demonstrably more likely to open up the wonders of the universe to our awareness than superstitious navel gazing. You seem to be engaging in a sort of "God of the gaps" reasoning about these matters (i.e., if there are no plausible or satisfying answers forthcoming from science, then the wildest flight of fancy must be the case). I don't think any of us are completely in tune with the real world; our minds are reality-simulators at best, delusion-generators at worst. But I do think it preferable to at least attempt to find out what's really out there, cautiously and without throwing undue obstacles in our own paths.

Re: The Real-fantastique
Posted by: Jojo Lapin X (IP Logged)
Date: 3 December, 2016 10:20AM
Knygatin Wrote:
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> that stance
> makes waking life more colorful and fun

My dreams are more boring than my waking life. I have often wondered why, given my life-long interest in fantastic literature and film, my dreams never have anything fantastical in them. Unless you count elevators that behave in surprising ways (this is a recurrent theme).

Re: The Real-fantastique
Posted by: Knygatin (IP Logged)
Date: 11 December, 2016 01:17PM
Jojo Lapin X Wrote:
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> My dreams are more boring than my waking life. I
> have often wondered why, given my life-long
> interest in fantastic literature and film, my
> dreams never have anything fantastical in them.
> Unless you count elevators that behave in
> surprising ways (this is a recurrent theme).


Same here. Never anything supernatural, except for a few rare ones in which I have levitated. As a kid I lived in a house with a rattling old elevator, that stuck now and then. At that time I occasionally dreamt about the elevator. Now I never dream about elevators.

I don't believe literature effects our body and nervous-system strongly enough, to harbour a place in our dreams.

If I remember correctly, CAS said in one of his letters that he never dreamt fantastic dreams. So we are in good company.

Re: The Real-fantastique
Posted by: Knygatin (IP Logged)
Date: 11 December, 2016 02:37PM
Was H. P. Lovecraft clairvoyant?

Pluto, or Yuggoth as Lovecraft named it, is on the surface the visually most interesting and Earth-like planet in our system. Far away, 73 times the distance to Mars, and 9 times the distance to the gas giants, it is so enormously distant, that our minds can not grasp it. The collective mind thought Pluto was just a frozen black ball. But the Sun's rays actually reach there, and give it a beautiful mellow light. It has a blue atmosphere! An atmosphere! The surface is striking in contrasts, surprizingly varied, with a large frozen sea of water (that's more than can be said of Mars), and mountain ranges eerily reminiscent of Earth. Scientists believe the core of Pluto is warm, and that there is liquid water beneath the ice, possibly containing life. They also say that Pluto's largest moon, Charon, has an area at its north pole, containing organic macromolecules, the essential ingredients of life. Pluto is a dwarf planet, slightly smaller than our Moon, so gravity is very light.

I wouldn't at all be surprized if the Old Ones lived here and flapped about with their rudimentary wings. And trickled down from here to Earth.


Atmosphere. [blogs.nasa.gov]

Mountain-ranges. [upload.wikimedia.org]

Rocks and frozen liquid. [upload.wikimedia.org]

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