Dr. Farmer, what was CAS like when you knew him? What kinds of things did the two of you do together? What did he like to do? What did he write during this period? Did he ever say anything about writing his short stories?

I suggest that Dr. Farmer relate the story of CAS and his first (and perhaps his only) experience on an escalator. Great little story, I couldn't help but be reminded of the great CAS poem "Don Quixote on Market Street".
-Ron

It appears that I chose an exciting time to check back with The Eldritch Dark. I too eagerly await any information Dr. Farmer can share with CAS fans. (especially The Sword of Zagan)

Did CAS ever talk about the younger generation of "fantasy" writers, and his own influence on them? I am particularly thinking of Jack Vance; is it possible that CAS had read works like "The Dying Earth" and "The Miracle Workers"? If he still looked in the science fiction magazines in his old age it is not unlikely that he knew these stories, and I can only imagine that they would have caught his interest to a high degree.

(I am aware that there is a vast difference in attitude and subject of interest between these two authors, but I think they still share much in the quality of their imaginary creations and their depths of wisdom.)

I know that CAS admired the work of Ray Bradbury and of Fritz Leiber, also the more ironic fantasies of Sprague de Camp. THE DYING EARTH came out in paperback in 1950, so it is conceivable that CAS may have read it, but I can't recall any references to it in any of the letters that I've seen. Of Smith's surviving friends, only Rah Hoffman is greatly interested in fantastic fiction (although Dr. Farmer is a great Tolkien aficionado and has read both Robert E. Howard and Lovecraft as well as CAS), so I will ask him about this next time I speak with Rah. CAS continued to read the sf digests of his day, especially F&SF and FANTASTIC UNIVERSE, but his opinions are not recorded.
Best, Scott

This will be a double response - first - 68 years of age is
not "old" as you may come to know in the future.LOL
I never heard Clark refer to John Vance, or "The Dying
Earth" as a title (though the concept is pervasive is his
own works). We spent much more time discussing writers from
the past, and poets from the present. Clark was always far
more interested in poetry, and considered himself first a
poet, secondarily a story-teller. Poetry allowed him the
greater range for his imagination, and the more rapid,incisive
thrust for his wit and satire. I strongly urge those
looking for influences, to read George MacDonald (a major
influence on C.S. Lewis), and an author more eagerly read
by young people at the turn of the century (early 1900's) than
today: Phantastes and Lilith in particular. It is probable
that Clark did not write to Lovecraft et al about Macdonald
because his work was a "given" backdrop at the time.
Clark did casually check out SF stuff from time to time to
keep up or check out trends to see if there might be a place
to sell something, but he was not aggressively involved in
the market, nor was he particularly taken with the "state
of the art" at that time - his intellectual house was largely
furnished with joyful play with language - poetry, and the
conveying of meaning by sound and rhythym gave him the
greatest pleasure - and the capacity to sneak in a jibe
without getting caught - - his favorite "apothegm" is most
telling of Clark's later years -- "sweet are the uses of
obscurity!"
In re-reading the above, I note that I left out an important
point. Whatever came into Clark's hands of contemporary
SF or Fantasy/horror was pushed at him by Carol as part of
her efforts to get him to begin writing again, and not from
active pursuit on his part.
Dr. F

I had it in the back of my mind that I wasn't using the right words when writing "his old age", but I didn't want to use space for a side discussion about his age, and was too lazy to search for another expression (english is not my native language either, so the words don't come easily). I meant the last years of his life. My mom is 70, and her mind is youthful as ever; she will probably never become an old lady.

I have always wondered about his higher regard for poetry than for story-telling (well regard may not be right, because I am sure he had the highest respect and regard for certain story-tellers... but stronger personal interest at least), for I think the best of his stories are carefully distilled with meaning, and also show subtle nuances (like the details and gradual colour shiftings in a painting) that can't find room in his more sparse-worded poetry. I must be missing something in his poetry; when I started reading it I had my first experience ever of hearing something tremendous that was beyond the scope of my intelligence; a mind greater than my own speaking (usually otherwise, when someone speaks about things I don't understand I don't experience that, but instead only stare with blank ignorant eyes, uninpressed and unmoved from my present position). After a few readings, The Hashish-Eater still largely pass me by. But still, in some poems, when I linger over the words, I sometimes have to put the book down because too much is stirred up inside. Certainly familiarity with Greek mythology and some knowledge of astronomy (partly leading towards more cosmic wisdom) is helpful to ones understanding and appreciation. But there is also such deep spirituality in his poetry that one really need to be sensitive to reach it.

I like Phantastes very much. Lilith did not leave the same impression on me, except for a memorable scene with a careening horse.

Re: CAS and Influences

As I recall, there are letters from CAS to a Mr. Sackett that enumerate some of CAS's more obscure influences, such as Beddoes's poetry, and Oscar Wilde's poem "The Sphinx". I've always felt that poetry was CAS's first love, and it does not surprise me to learn that he took little interest in fantasy fiction once he had ceased his own "fiction-writing campaign". In fact, I wonder whether there is any evidence that CAS read the pulps at all prior to his acquaintance with Lovecraft? His tastes in fiction always seemed to me to veer more towards the classic (Poe, Flaubert, Herne, France). I certainly agree, however, that his best fiction resembles extended prose-poems, and his specifically denominated prose-poems are second to none, including the more celebrated French examples of the form.

As for the works of George MacDonald, I could be mistaken, of course, but, despite their imaginative sweep, I'd be surprised if CAS held them in very high regard: I should think that the odor of the underlying Xtianity that pervades them might have been a little too much for CAS's nostrils. On the other hand, perhaps I am merely projecting my own tastes (and distastes) upon him.

Keep in mind that there weren't as many pulps around when HPL and CAS first began corresponding, especially specialty pulps. However, CAS sold two stories to THE BLACK CAT, and a poem to THE THRILL BOOK, and one, maybe two stories and some poems to a couple of romance pulps. His father was a voracious reader of adventure pulps like ARGOSY and ALL-STORY, and I can't imagine CAS _not_ enjoying some of the "unusual" tales published in them. In fact, one of his friends, Frank Lillie Pollock, was a well-known contributor to the Munsey pulps. And don't forget that CAS' mother supplemented the family's income by selling magazine subscriptions--all types of magazines, ranging from SMART SET and COSMOPOLITAN to GOOD HOUSEKEEPING and REDBOOK to pulps. There was a large outbuilding on the ranch that was used for storing magazines. CAS may not have discussed them much because there weren't a whole lot of people interested in them--Sterling was definitely not interested, while HPL had turned his back on the Munseys by this time.
Incidently, CAS was reading Dunsany and Machen long before Lovecraft.
Best,
Scott

I recall that English is not your native language, but you are
apparantly doing well in it. Hashish Eater is not a particularly
good place to start with Ashton. Perhaps you might read chronologically. I think you will enjoy looking back at some
of his very, very early efforts in "The Sword of Zagan" which
will be out early next year and includes several unpublished
poems some of which were surely written as a pre-teen.
Also not C.S. Lewis prefaces to MacDonald in the newer editions -
a very accurate assessment which I know CAS agreed with.
Dr. F

Hey Kevin, nice to hear from you. First, MacDonald would most
likely have been read either in school, or as something any
english household that reads might have had on the shelf.
My recollection in the discussion Clark and I had involved his
appreciation for the unleashed imaginative quality of MacDonald.
The works themselves are highly flawed, and, save for moments of
real lyric excellence, are unsatisfactory. Yet, as Lewis
observes, he was the first to write a sustained fantasy as a
work of pure imagination. Of course it has the aura which
naturally emanates from its Clergyman author's ethos, and
that very fact made him recommended reading for enriching
young minds in the late 1800's. Clark also may have encountered
MacDonald in the library when he got to the "M" section. Note
some similarities in Clark of malevolent creatures emerging
from the ground and scenes of relentless pursuit where I think
you will see some similarity. Again, however, Clark's reading
of these works was, I believe, very young and probably a more
subconscious influence or something within that meshed with
his mind-set. As to holding the works of MacDonald in high-regard,
you are correct - but that does not diminish their continued
fascination -- even a muddy fountain's water will irrigate
the land perfectly well.
Dr. F

Scott:

Thanks for answering my question regarding CAS's reading of pulp fiction. He may well have enjoyed such works, but I assume that you aren't suggesting that, aside from Lovecraft's fiction, he held it in the same esteem as the works of Poe, et al?
Also, correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't think that CAS read Machen's most famous weird tales, those contained in The House of Souls, before Lovecraft did. I seem to recall a letter in which CAS replies to HPL thanking him for the loan of that book, and discussing his first impressions of "The Great God Pan" and the like.

Dr. Farmer:

I agree with you that Lewis adds his particular twist to Macdonald, but I formed my impression of Macdonald's views based on a biography of him that I read during my college years. At the time, I was very interested in the German Romantics (I still am), and I was fascinated to find an English author who was profoundly influenced by them (by Novalis, in particular). The self-abasement (and, by extension, self-loathing) of Macdonald's questing heroes are, to me, particularly redolent of Xtianity. All this is a minor point, however, as of course one can overlook most of these elements and enjoy the fertility of Macdonald's imagination, especially in Lilith.

Dr. Farmer:

Oops, we got our signals crossed; my fault! It's good to see you posting here, too.

I certainly agree with your points in your post regarding Macdonald, and find the notion fascinating that the youth of those days might have readily encountered Macdonald's adult fantasy works. The "Curdie" books, to be sure, but Lilith and the like? Amazing! It shows what a decadent age in which we live.

Scott, great input as always.
A little expansion on a comment I made in response to Kevin.
All commentary and study on Clark's works should keep in
mind at all times as a back-drop, that Clark had read not
only the entire 1895 Americana, but the Brittanica as well,
finishing that task with the issuance of their greatest
effort, the 1911 edition; all this in addition to reading all
the volumes in the Carnegie in Auburn from A to Z. I never
thought to ask him, but recalling his astounding memory, I
should not have been surprised had he been able to remember
the dewey decimal numbers on each book! Of Course he also
read the "hernia" edition of Webster's (which was still in
use when I began to use that library). It might be interesting
to find whether an extant inventory of the library and its
acquisitions from about 1900 through 1912 exists -- that would
reveal exactly what he had read during that period. There
may be a master list of all books that were there in the
initial donation by Carnegie. I suspect that there is a
master list for all the libraries he created out of the initial
donation. Certainly Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton, Spenser,
Jonson, Pepys, Fitzgerald's Rubaiyat (we took turns once
and recited all 101 of them), Kipling, and so on among
English and American writers; and also the translators and
retellers -- Chapman's "Homer" and some version of "The Song
of Roland" for example. And of course, all public schools
still focused considerably on a measure of religious education.
The public school movement was still comparitively new and
had begun that the ordinary man might "not be ignorant of
holy writ."
Dr. F

FAO: Dr W. C. Farmer,

You certainly seem to have a strong interest in the poetic language (and presumably poems) of the late Clark Ashton Smith. Your post appears to have attracted a large number of replies also. I have not read any poetry by Clark Ashton Smith. However, poetic works from H P Lovecraft such as "Ex Oblivione" certainly appeal to me. Also, some of his shortest written works could and should be treated as poems or essays, in view of the concise and highly descriptive way in which they were written? A controversial suggestion no doubt! Even so, it is the highly descriptive style used by Clark Ashton Smith and H P Lovecraft which helps to distance these writers from the blood and gore of stories by James Herbert and Guy N. Smith etc. I feel it is sad that critics and others, are perhaps guilty of regarding all writers in the horror/fantasy genre with equal contempt - despite the fact that writers in this field are as different in style to one another as in any other genre.......

Hopefully, this brief essay had given you readers further "fuel for thought", as the saying goes.

Many Thanks

From: Julian

e-mail: julianuk@37.com