Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Avoosl Wuthoqquan Wrote:
>
> > Humanities departments are like Jonestown
> > nowadays.
>
>
> Zinnngggg! My compliments to you on a zinger that
> those departments often deserve.


What, Dale?

You don't find Koolaide to be tasty and refreshing?

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dale Nelson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Avoosl Wuthoqquan Wrote:
> >
> > > Humanities departments are like Jonestown
> > > nowadays.
> >
> >
> > Zinnngggg! My compliments to you on a zinger
> that
> > those departments often deserve.
>
>
> What, Dale?
>
> You don't find Koolaide to be tasty and
> refreshing?

No indeed. I prefer the well-aged wine brought up from the cellars of the great literary traditions.

My thumb is firmly up for MR James, and to the extent Sawfish feels otherwise, I guess I disagree.

But I do agree that his stories don't tend to pack a strong punch of horror, and do come close to being "comfort food" by horror-tale standards.

I don't find that his stories take too much effort for too little payoff, except for a few of his more unfocussed and unresolved stories. James is to some extent inspired by Le Fanu, whose journalistic style of ghost story often deliberately left many loose ends and mysteries unresolved. But sometimes I feel he carries this too far, and this applies, for instance to most of the stories in "A Thin Ghost and Others". For instance, in "The Residence at Westminster", I would have been much happier if someone had opened that mysterious crate and come to a horrible end. But the prebend decides that discretion is the better part of valor, and so does MR James. I guess that sinister crate is still sitting unopened in a Westminster attic, and I'm still not sure what's in it. I still like these more-unfinished stories well enough, but when I read them, I tend to say "come on, you could have given me a little more."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 15 Jul 21 | 01:31PM by Platypus.

Some good points there, Platypus. I have to wonder whether James didn’t have some repressed feelings (conveniently dramatised as a buried crate[1]). His horror of hair, seemingly asexual life, public-school affinities and disposition to wrestle with young men send my mind along a path where it is definitely not allowed to go according to the woke generation…

[1] Does anybody else here love the movie Creepshow?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15 Jul 21 | 01:54PM by Avoosl Wuthoqquan.

Avoosl Wuthoqquan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to wonder
> whether James didn’t have some repressed
> feelings (conveniently dramatised as a buried
> crate[1]). His horror of hair, seemingly asexual
> life, public-school affinities and disposition to
> wrestle with young men send my mind along a path
> where it is definitely not allowed to go according
> to the woke generation…

I'm not a fan of this kind of thinking, though I know that it has been all the rage in academia for at least 60 years. In my opinion, MR James' ghost stories are about ghosts. They are not about his repressed secret desire to bugger young boys. In my view this would be true even if M.R. James' did secretly desire to bugger young boys, for which there is no meaningful evidence AFAIK. I know that respected academics have written erudite articles on the topic of M.R. James' repressed sexual desires, but this only proves to my mind that modern academia is insane.

On the subject of M.R. James as "comfort food", I really did enjoy "The Five Jars", which, while it is definitely a weird tale, could not be categorized as horror at all. I believe it is classified as a children's fantasy novel.

One theory has it that he wanted to bugger the ghosts of young boys...

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Avoosl Wuthoqquan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>disposition to
> wrestle with young men


That's new to me as something said about M. R. James. Do you happen to have a source?

Well, there's this:

[www.independent.co.uk]

Do not, however, even for a minute believe that Jones's edition is "immaculate". I spotted two enormous errors and OUP never got back to me when I reported them.

The best edition of James IMHO remains A Pleasing Terror, published by Ash-Tree Press.

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Avoosl Wuthoqquan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >disposition to
> > wrestle with young men
>
>
> That's new to me as something said about M. R.
> James. Do you happen to have a source?


:^)

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dale Nelson Wrote:
> That's new to me as something said about M. R.
> James. Do you happen to have a source?

Apparently, he was born in another time, and did not realize that roughhousing and horseplay were homosexual acts, which is evidently accepted wisdom among modern academics. I think that's the entire case, more or less. That and the fact that he never married.

There was once a time, when a man was free from gayness as long as he refrained from putting his rod up another man's backside, or vice versa. But moderns are more inquisitorial than the Catholic Church ever was, and crotch-sniffing is the favorite sport of literary academia.

Agreed, but I don't remember reading that he engaged in such horseplay, although it is getting towards 40 years since I read Michael Cox's biography of MRJ. I just wondered where that datum was from. It's believable, but I don't remember it.

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agreed, but I don't remember reading that he
> engaged in such horseplay, although it is getting
> towards 40 years since I read Michael Cox's
> biography of MRJ. I just wondered where that
> datum was from. It's believable, but I don't
> remember it.

This article mentions horseplay, and cites to p. 55 of Cox's biography:
[unbound.com]

I have not read Cox's biography, but I have read M.R. James stories, and can compare some of the assertions in this article to the actual text. For instance, the article says, in the very first paragraph, that "A Warning to the Curious" and "The Story of a Disappearance and an Appearance" contain "coded" homosexual rape sequences. For those who don't read code, the word "coded" in this context, actually means "no such thing happened".

In "A Warning to the Curious", Paxton is on his hands and knees digging a tunnel in a barrow, when he feels a sensation which he takes to be dirt falling on his back. He ignores the sensation, and grabs his prize, an ancient silver crown, and hears something like a groan of dismay behind him. We are led to understand that what Paxton took for falling dirt, was in fact the feeble half-skeletal claw of the ghost of William Ager, tasked with defending the crown, who is trying to pull Paxton away from the crown or otherwise attack him, but who is too feeble (physically at least) to exert much force upon him. How one could leap from this to an inference of gay rape is a mystery.

"The Story of an Disappearance and Appearance" is one of MR James' more unresolved stories, but we are presumably meant to theorize that Uncle H has been murdered for his money by a pair of traveling Punch & Judy performers. In the climax, the vengeful ghost of Uncle H appears in the performer's booth, grabs one of the performers, and lifts him toward the prop noose. The booth then falls over, and one of the performers flees. The two performers are then found dead, one in the booth, and the other some distance away, where the ghost of Uncle H evidently pursued him. I guess the article-writer's inference here is that ghost must have snuck up on the performer from behind, and that any rearward approach necessarily implies gay rape.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 18 Jul 21 | 12:20PM by Platypus.

Platypus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dale Nelson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Agreed, but I don't remember reading that he
> > engaged in such horseplay, although it is
> getting
> > towards 40 years since I read Michael Cox's
> > biography of MRJ. I just wondered where that
> > datum was from. It's believable, but I don't
> > remember it.
>
> This article mentions horseplay, and cites to p.
> 55 of Cox's biography:
> [unbound.com]
> s/asexual-homosexual-bisexual-or-straight-the-conf
> using-world-of-m-r-james
>
> I have not read Cox's biography, but I have read
> M.R. James stories, and can compare some of the
> assertions in this article to the actual text.
> For instance, the article says, in the very first
> paragraph, that "A Warning to the Curious" and
> "The Story of a Disappearance and an Appearance"
> contain "coded" homosexual rape sequences. For
> those who don't read code, the word "coded" in
> this context, actually means "no such thing
> happened".
Either you're trusted with the secret handshake, or you are not...

>
> In "A Warning to the Curious", Paxton is on his
> hands and knees digging a tunnel in a barrow, when
> he feels a sensation which he takes to be dirt
> falling on his back. He ignores the sensation,
> and grabs his prize, an ancient silver crown, and
> hears something like a groan of dismay behind him.
> We are led to understand that what Paxton took
> for falling dirt, was in fact the feeble
> half-skeletal claw of the ghost of William Ager,
> tasked with defending the crown, who is trying to
> pull Paxton away from the crown or otherwise
> attack him, but who is too feeble (physically at
> least) to exert much force upon him. How one
> could leap from this to an inference of gay rape
> is a mystery.
>
> "The Story of an Disappearance and Appearance" is
> one of MR James' more unresolved stories, but we
> are presumably meant to theorize that Uncle H has
> been murdered for his money by a pair of traveling
> Punch & Judy performers. In the climax, the
> vengeful ghost of Uncle H appears in the
> performer's booth, grabs one of the performers,
> and lifts him toward the prop noose. The booth
> then falls over, and one of the performers flees.
> The two performers are then found dead, one in the
> booth, and the other some distance away, where the
> ghost of Uncle H evidently pursued him. I guess
> the article-writer's inference here is that ghost
> must have snuck up on the performer from behind,
> and that any rearward approach necessarily implies
> gay rape.

Well...

What else could it be?....

;^)

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sawfish Wrote:
> Well...
>
> What else could it be?....
>
> ;^)


The only question is, did Uncle H's ghost also butt-rape the Toby Dog? I guess he must have done, from the way that dog was howling.