A thread on Walter del la Mare's anthology Behold, This Dreamer! evoked some discussion here but became inactive.

I intend to start that book over, while, at the same time, reading some books that I anticipate will contrast with it but also be complementary.

Behold, This Dreamer! will be a first-rate expression of poetic consciousness. The other books would amount to being critiques of what I've called sociological consciousness. The first will be Dobelli's Stop Reading the News. The next book after Dobelli's is likely to be Belloc's The Servile State.* Hayek's The Road to Serfdom and Vitz's Psychology as Religion might also be appropriate. Maybe even Ruth Richardson'sDeath, Dissection and the Destitute . Belloc and Hayek are available as free downloads.


*Knygatin might appreciate the cover design of one of the editions currently available:

[www.bookdepository.com]


The Servile State may be read for free online:

[www.gutenberg.org]

Likewise, here is The Road to Serfdom:

[cdn.mises.org]


Anyway, I'm going to start this project, and I hope others will be interested.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12 Aug 21 | 10:47AM by Dale Nelson.

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A thread on Walter del la Mare's anthology Behold,
> This Dreamer! evoked some discussion here but
> became inactive.
>
> I intend to start that book over, while, at the
> same time, reading some books that I anticipate
> will contrast with it but also be complementary.
>
> Behold, This Dreamer! will be a first-rate
> expression of poetic consciousness. The other
> books would amount to being critiques of what I've
> called sociological consciousness. The first will
> be Dobelli's Stop Reading the News. The next book
> after Dobelli's is likely to be Belloc's The
> Servile State.* Hayek's The Road to Serfdom and
> Vitz's Psychology as Religion might also be
> appropriate. Belloc and Hayek are available as
> free downloads.
>
>
> *Knygatin might appreciate the cover design of one
> of the editions currently available:
>
> [www.bookdepository.com]
> re-Belloc/9781602068681

My understanding is that the original design by the engraver for the back of US currency had an eye framed by a keyhole, but this was thought inappropriate by Alexander Hamilton, on one of those occasions when he wasn't busy judging a twerking contest involving some of Thomas Jefferson's slaves.

I know I read it somewhere, so it has to be true...

:^)

>
>
> The Servile State may be read for free online:
>
> [www.gutenberg.org]
> 2-h.htm
>
> Likewise, here is The Road to Serfdom:
>
> [cdn.mises.org]
>
>
> Anyway, I'm going to start this project, and I
> hope others will be interested.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12 Aug 21 | 10:48AM by Sawfish.

Here are some notes from the first four chapters of Dobelli's Stop Reading the News.

Rolf Dobelli. Stop Reading the News: A Manifesto for a Happier, Calmer and Wiser Life (London: Sceptre, an imprint of Hodder & Stoughton, 2020), translated from German by Caroline Waight. 160 pages.

The first four chapters:

He refers (p. 2) to his 2013 article “News Is Bad for You,” published in The Guardian.* I saw a reference to this in a blog & read the article at that time.
He was a teenage newspaper addict in Lucerne, became financial controller for Swissair (p. 7).

With the stream of information from the internet, you’re never finished with the news, as you (temporarily) were when you read newspapers (p. 9).

He found it was getting hard for him to read relatively long texts in one gone (p. 10). I have experienced this too. It has serious implications, notably for readers of literary fiction, including a strange story such as Blackwood’s “The Willows,” which is largely an exercise in the building of an eerie atmosphere.
Dobelli can describe himself now as having been “entirely news free” since 2010, but we soon learn that he doesn’t mean this absolutely. But having changed his habits, he finds he thinks more clearly, has insights that are more valuable, and enjoys more free time. [The assumption is that everyone wants more “free time.” See the end of Letter XII in C. S. Lewis’s Screwtape Letters.]

“…the new being sold as the relevant” (p. 15).

He recommends reading books and “well-researched long-form articles” for knowledge of current events (p. 16).

If you resolve to stop reading newspapers and popular news magazines, to stop watching TV news and consuming (i.e. being consumed by) internet news feeds, you should “turn your gaze away from the headlines and towards something more productive” if you are an environment with such things abounding, e.g. airports (p. 19).

Dobelli recommends that you not press on to finish a book that isn’t interesting and has nothing new for you, but that if you do read something worthwhile, it’s good, having finished it, to read it again promptly. Reading it a second time is not “twice as effective” but as it were 20 times as effective. (p. 20).

Using Google is OK but use it deliberately & don’t be sidetracked. “Don’t let the object of your attention be dictated by the news media” (p. 21).


*[www.theguardian.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12 Aug 21 | 06:00PM by Dale Nelson.

I've been monopolizing ED today, with the only excuse being that I'm both agitated and bored--and both have been a lifelong condition, but they don't often coincide as completely as they did today.

So I'll try to keep this short.

Dale, I, too, share the belief that reading/listening/viewing the news sources available today without strict qualification (and perhaps this was always true) does the individual more harm than good.

It's that simple, really.

But you do need to have at least enough awareness of emerging circumstances that can pose an actual threat to your plans/strategies that you can take action, if possible and appropriate.

So there are tow basic things that work for me:

1) Devise a basic triage to very quickly evaluate news so that you waste no time with things that have no real importance to your life or your plans.

Whether the topics are *interesting* or not is irrelevant. Are they essential?

Everyone must figure out their own way. If you cannot tell what's essential and what's not, there's no help for you in this life.

2) Give reporters and columnists ZERO credibility or respect based on who they are. The content itself must earn it, and it must earn it every single time.

No free rides even though I liked the last four columns.

First the triage, then no free rides. Simple, huh?

An example of "need to know": there are proposals to eliminate the "step up" clause of cap gains law. The bulk of our estate planning is centered around the step up, and I must figure out another way if it is eliminated.

If I can.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sawfish, you probably have a trusted source(s) for that capital gains information. In the same way, a homeschooling family could get information about threats to this essential liberty from local people they trust who follow news and/or a homeschooling organization.

My wife and I actually get a daily national newspaper (the Wall Street Journal. I check the editorial pages and the book reviews, etc. Most of the paper is just a source of newspaper to put under our cats' litter boxes, but I figure it is relatively trustworthy for national and international news as compared to NYT, MSNBC, CNN, and so on -- if I want that news.

I like the idea of a local newspaper, but the weekly we have had little to report other than high school and college sports, "news" from the local assisted living and nursing home facilities, etc. We rarely subscribe to it. When we do, it tends to get about 2 minutes from either of us....

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish, you probably have a trusted source(s) for
> that capital gains information.

First appearance will be in the funding bill; if it is passed I have a tax attorney I'm willing to at least listen to, yes.

> In the same way,
> a homeschooling family could get information about
> threats to this essential liberty from local
> people they trust who follow news and/or a
> homeschooling organization.

Seems the same thing to me, yes.

Let me be clear: homeschooling in this day/age is a Great Good. It is VERY hard to do well, however.

I have no doubt whatsoever that you did it well, Dale.

>
> My wife and I actually get a daily national
> newspaper (the Wall Street Journal. I check the
> editorial pages and the book reviews, etc. Most
> of the paper is just a source of newspaper to put
> under our cats' litter boxes,

Hah, hah!

Woody Allen has a situation where a grad student comes to his advisor's office and finds that the his thesis is being used to level out an uneven leg of the advisor's desk.

> but I figure it is
> relatively trustworthy for national and
> international news as compared to NYT, MSNBC, CNN,
> and so on -- if I want that news.
>
> I like the idea of a local newspaper,

To my mind this has much more day-to-day relevance to one's normal life.

E.g. in PDX there were a lot of landlord-tenant changes within the last 3 years. I needed to know this, and it was only in local sources.

> but the
> weekly we have had little to report other than
> high school and college sports, "news" from the
> local assisted living and nursing home facilities,
> etc. We rarely subscribe to it. When we do, it
> tends to get about 2 minutes from either of us....

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sawfish, I’m not sure it’s all that hard to do homeschooling well enough. It is largely a natural outgrowth of a healthy household. I’d say the difficulty is likely to come not from the task of homeschooling specifically, but from the effort needed to attain and maintain a healthy household in these times. The parents may have quite a bit to unlearn and undo -- much of that having been done, ideally, before their first child is born.

De la Mare's Behold, This Dreamer! reminds us that we live in time; rich or poor or in between, we get 60 seconds to the minute. Aren't we fooled if we think we need to spend time on "breaking news"? A day or two ago the New York governor resigned because of scandalous accusations. This situation has nothing to do with me, and I have no desire to discuss it.

Are we afraid that we won't have anything to say to... people we work with? our friends? our family? .... if we don't have "news" to talk about?

I think many relatively young people, let's say still in their twenties or younger, unless (as is all too likely) they have been spoiled by college, actually are not all that interested in "the news," while people in their middle years all too likely are. I attended a dinner party earlier this year in which there wasn't room for everyone to sit and talk. It happened that the older people were in one room and the younger (except for me) in another. I enjoyed conversation with the younger people, who talked about interesting things such as goats and science fiction. Perhaps the older people would have been interesting too but I'm afraid there'd have been too much politics, business, etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12 Aug 21 | 09:28PM by Dale Nelson.

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish, I’m not sure it’s all that hard to do
> homeschooling well enough. It is largely a
> natural outgrowth of a healthy household. I’d
> say the difficulty is likely to come not from the
> task of homeschooling specifically, but from the
> effort needed to attain and maintain a healthy
> household in these times. The parents may have
> quite a bit to unlearn and undo -- much of that
> having been done, ideally, before their first
> child is born.

This part always was natural easy for me, and I believe my wife has a lot to do with it--a more good-natured and non-judgmental person it would be hard to find.

Plus, I was within 6b months of being 50 when our daughter was born, and I had much different ideas about what was important, and what wasn't than at age 30, for example.

All of that was a joy...still is.

>
> De la Mare's Behold, This Dreamer! reminds us that
> we live in time; rich or poor or in between, we
> get 60 seconds to the minute. Aren't we fooled if
> we think we need to spend time on "breaking news"?
> A day or two ago the New York governor resigned
> because of scandalous accusations. This situation
> has nothing to do with me, and I have no desire to
> discuss it.

EGGZ-ACTLY!

Who cares?

>
> Are we afraid that we won't have anything to say
> to... people we work with? our friends? our
> family? .... if we don't have "news" to talk
> about?

I have few friends, decreasing as they die off. They don't care about this stuff either.

>
> I think many relatively young people, let's say
> still in their twenties or younger, unless (as is
> all too likely) they have been spoiled by college,
> actually are not all that interested in "the
> news,"

They seem to me to have regressed to "oral tradition".

I kid you not.

Now consider how fertile a ground this is for CRT's "primacy of personal narrative".


> while people in their middle years all too
> likely are. I attended a dinner party earlier
> this year in which there wasn't room for everyone
> to sit and talk. It happened that the older
> people were in one room and the younger (except
> for me) in another. I enjoyed conversation with
> the younger people, who talked about interesting
> things such as goats and science fiction. Perhaps
> the older people would have been interesting too
> but I'm afraid there'd have been too much
> politics, business, etc.

In truth, at this point I have little that connects me with others, and I'm essentially comfortable with it.

ED is pretty much sufficient, and if that gives out I can always find another forum.

I mean , I have completely and totally walked away from forums I frequented ***more*** than I do with ED. Multiple times, no problem.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Behold, This Dreamer! will be a first-rate
> expression of poetic consciousness. The other
> books would amount to being critiques of what I've
> called sociological consciousness. The first will
> be Dobelli's Stop Reading the News. The next book
> after Dobelli's is likely to be Belloc's The
> Servile State.* Hayek's The Road to Serfdom and
> Vitz's Psychology as Religion might also be
> appropriate. Maybe even Ruth Richardson'sDeath,
> Dissection and the Destitute . Belloc and Hayek
> are available as free downloads.
>
> *Knygatin might appreciate the cover design of one
> of the editions currently available:
>
> [www.bookdepository.com]
> re-Belloc/9781602068681
>
>
> The Servile State may be read for free online:
>
> [www.gutenberg.org]
> 2-h.htm
>

Here is another of the critical books: Web of Debt. Underneath the sociological consciousness, the extreme liberal feminism, gender confusion, splitting of the family constellation, the total equality ignoring actual proficiency, replacing Natural genuine moral standards with easy sloppy pleasures and consumption slavery (in effect drugging), which is a way of dividing, breaking down, and controlling the population, to make it ineffective of possible rebellion against the system, lies money and power interests.

Although the link I have provided several times to the film The Money Masters is a more handy way of getting an overall understanding, this book is a thorough detailed review of our corrupt economic system. Private banking that creates money out of nothing by way of giving generous loans not covered by actual liquidity (fractional-reserve), and controlling our state banks (and by extension our political leaders) in Europe and USA.

“The real truth of the matter is that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government since the days of Andrew Jackson.”
– Franklin D. Roosevelt

The only responsibility we have regarding the News, is to be discriminate of it, so we don't vote for the same corrupt leaders again and again. We must seek information outside of the box.

For quite a while I've suspected that the ballot box is much like the employees' suggestion box in a large company, where every so often the janitor empties it into the dumpster out back.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> total equality ignoring actual proficiency, replacing
> Natural genuine moral standards with easy pleasures ...

One of countless examples of how Western civilization is allowed to collapse: Oregon governor signs bill removing reading, writing, & math requirements. This is happening nationwide, in most states.

In Minnesota the police force is being liquidated, because of hysterical concession to (((BLM))) reasoning that the citizens of the community will take care of crime themselves.

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For quite a while I've suspected that the ballot
> box is much like the employees' suggestion box in
> a large company, where every so often the janitor
> empties it into the dumpster out back.

Your intuition is well grounded.

Interesting ..., the dead silence is veritably eloquent.

Anyhow, how does de la Mare's Behold, This Dreamer! balance all this up?

Knygatin, as regards the idea that the whole system is rigged, silence might mean people are looking into it, or don't agree but don't think this thread is the place to debate it, or that people think you are right but don't want to discuss it or not here; and there might be other possibilities. In other words, the silence doesn't seem eloquent to me, because the word would suggest a clear exposition of what people think, and I don't know what they think about the points you made.

But this "experiment in concurrent reading" is just that, an experiment. My hunch is that de la Mare's long book is a major work of poetic consciousness, that it is going to take concentration and perseverance, and that reading books that deal with what I've called sociological consciousness might help me to stick with the de la Mare, which I have started more than once but never finished.

For example, reading Dobelli's account of how so many of us are prone to fritter away our precious time reading stuff not only not important to us but not even very interesting to us, whets my appetite all the more for reading things, such as de la Mare's book, that deal with matters that everyone has a stake in. For example, in his first pages de la Mare reminds us that most people spend 1/3 of their lives sleeping. That's over 20 years of sleep, if we live to be 60 or more. That suggests, in turn, that I might do well to read a book like de la Mare's that's going to deal with sleep, dreams, imagination, etc. -- rather than to read internet "breaking news" about a flood in Bangladesh, an assassination in Peru, rioters in Montreal, a scandal in the state of New York, somebody running a stop light in Climax, or whatever.

I have spent many hours of my life, hours I can never redeem from some celestial pawnbroker, reading stuff like that, of which I have no memory -- it went through me like grease through a goose, as the expression had it. On the other hand, I think that reading de la Mare's book is going to enhance my sense of the mystery and depth of my own existence and yours and everyone's. It might change my life.

Supposing I finish de la Mare's Behold, This Dreamer! -- what then? Well, maybe another of his books. But also I want to make another try at Iain McGilchrist's The Master and His Emissary, and at Harding's The Hierarchy of Heaven and Earth, and at Farrer's A Rebirth of Images, and perhaps some other challenging books I'd better read soon while I can still hope to possess the mental acuity to understand them. I might have only 10 good reading years left. Already I seem to have more short-term memory slips than I did a few years ago.

They say: Memento mori, "remember you must die." But also, one should think Memento vivere, "Remember to live," or maybe "Remember you must live." As "Remember you must live," the saying suggests that a lot of us who may have years of life ahead when we're not suffering severe dementia, but just can't read long, challenging books -- so we'd better get busy and read them now.

The books I just mentioned in the paragraph before last all relate to poetic consciousness.

Thank you Dale.

I was just thinking about and discussing at home yesterday of how we sleep away a third of our lives, and that I dream more or less continuously while I sleep. And that these dreams are often more essential in content than what mundane drudgery and muddled thoughts goes on in my waking life. So perhaps it is the dreams that are real, and our waking and daily errands that is illusion and un-real.

Knygatin and anyone, have you ever been surprised, during the dream (not in reflection on it after you woke), by something in the dream?

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Knygatin and anyone, have you ever been surprised,
> during the dream (not in reflection on it after
> you woke), by something in the dream?


For the better part of my life I have had dreams that I can recall, with greater or lesser vividness and precision, every night. Now that I wake up at least twice a night, I often have multiple dreams that I can think about either better sleeping sessions, at night, or in the morning when I awake.

Last night, my last dream, involved me being at an old fashioned amusement park, holding a bunch of my daughter's childhood playthings--as if she was about 5 and was on one of the rides. Suddenly I saw a girl I had an early crush on. She was super smart and had an odd mystique in those days--not for everyone. She was obviously older.

I was old in the dream, like now.

I was trying to figure out how to approach her, what to say.

I don't believe I'm surprised by anything within the context of a dream, although fairly frequently I am aware that this must be a dream. After I awake, I can be surprised by some of the elements, that's for sure.

It is a red letter day when I do not have a dream to hash over the next morning. It's routine: like brushing my teeth.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sawfish Wrote:

> I don't believe I'm surprised by anything within
> the context of a dream, although fairly
> frequently I am aware that this must be a dream.

OK -- thank you for responding to my question. Please, anyone else?

I don't remember that I have ever felt surprised while dreaming by something in a dream. And that great Victorian fantasist George MacDonald says something like that in one of his stories -- a character experiences something that would be astonishing in waking life but, in his dream, he is not astonished. I could probably find the reference.

A. Roger Ekirch wrote a whole book, At Day’s Close: Night in Times Past, that could be worth reading. I’m perusing his article “Sleep We Have Lost: Pre-Industrial Slumber in the British Isles,” in American Historical Review for April 2001.

He presents evidence that prior to electrification, people often slept in a segmented rather than consolidated way, first sleep giving way sometime after midnight to perhaps an hour of mild wakefulness followed by a second period of sleep. The wakeful interval might include time for reflecting on a dream one had just had, or quiet conversation or lovemaking with one’s spouse, prayer, etc. He mentions Hawthorne’s piece “ The Haunted Mind.”

This segmented sleep might favor poetic consciousness better than our more characteristic consolidated sleep.

More from & on Dobelli's Stop Reading the News:

"The news is incapable of explaining anything. Its brief reports are like tiny, shimmering soap bubbles on the surface of a complex world" (p. 51).

That familiar worry -- "missing 'something important'" -- I think there's even an abbreviation, FOMO, Fear Of Missing Out.

(Well, you are missing out if your mind is absorbed by irrelevancies, trivialities, etc. Sue went for a walk under branches on Sunday. All of her senses were involved in some degree, even the sense of taste. Brad was in his apartment internet surfing. When Sue came back, she asked him what he'd learned, and he couldn't even remember what he had looked at. Too bad Sue missed out on so much!)

Information is no longer a "scarce resource" but attention is in short supply (p. 49).

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More from & on Dobelli's Stop Reading the News:
>
> "The news is incapable of explaining anything.
> Its brief reports are like tiny, shimmering soap
> bubbles on the surface of a complex world" (p.
> 51).
>
> That familiar worry -- "missing 'something
> important'" -- I think there's even an
> abbreviation, FOMO, Fear Of Missing Out.
>
> (Well, you are missing out if your mind is
> absorbed by irrelevancies, trivialities, etc. Sue
> went for a walk under branches on Sunday. All of
> her senses were involved in some degree, even the
> sense of taste. Brad was in his apartment
> internet surfing. When Sue came back, she asked
> him what he'd learned, and he couldn't even
> remember what he had looked at. Too bad Sue
> missed out on so much!)
>
> Information is no longer a "scarce resource" but
> attention is in short supply (p. 49).


This is why I first conceived of the triage I've mentioned.

Everyone here at ED has been around--no fresh lambs here, I think. By now you really should have a very good idea of what is important to you, and what is of peripheral interest--non-essential. If you don't know by now, you may as well throw in the towel and lay down on your back seeking mercy, puppy fashion..

The media are using the shotgun approach to gain your attention, and hence fatten their wallets. They peddle both personally important items mixed in with those of peripheral interest. Nor can I blame them, since stuff that's important to me may not be to you, and vice-versa.

But honest-to-god, if you're above 40 and cannot tell the difference between things that interest you and things that are important to you, good luck and God bless you.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This thread isn't the ideal place for this quotation, but never mind, I'll probably print it in other threads too. I have looked for this without finding it, & just now stumbled across it. It does relate to this thread, which is, so largely, about reading.

It's C. S. Lewis writing in 1941 to a teenager about to begin studies at Oxford. The young man asked Lewis for advice about what to read. Lewis gave that advice, and concluded his reply thus:

"The great thing is to be always reading but not to get bored -- treat it not like work, more like a vice! Your book bill ought to be your biggest extravagance."

How often that second sentence has come to my mind. Probably it has helped me over some misgivings about purchases that, after all, I might better have not made, but how glad I am now for many books I have bought, have read and reread, or likely will read, much to my profit, including the one that letter is printed in, C. S. Lewis at the Breakfast Table and Other Reminiscences, bought 3 August 1979, and perhaps taken into hand at least once or twice every year since then.

Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?

-Edgar Allan Poe


Yes, I think so. Since our thoughts are rarely focused on the essence of what is going on around us, we are not truly present, it is correct to say we walk through a waking dream.

Only a few rare individuals hit a homerun every day of their lives. Living life to the full. They are legends.

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> ... Since our thoughts are rarely
> focused on the essence of what is going on around us, ...
>

And inside us ... Most actions are zombie flings of the limbs.

Do people in North America, Europe, East Asia daydream much any more? Has daydreaming or reverie gone the way of walking down the street with your hands in your pockets as you whistle a tune? A thought prompted by de la Mare.

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do people in North America, Europe, East Asia
> daydream much any more? Has daydreaming or
> reverie gone the way of walking down the street
> with your hands in your pockets as you whistle a
> tune? A thought prompted by de la Mare.

An interesting departure; Dale.

I used to day dream constantly--got into trouble in class at school because of it.

Now I don't think so.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It seems quaint, to think of old-fashioned schoolmarms reproaching little boys for whistling. Maybe kids still daydream in class, but my guess is they are texting and so on instead.

A third change I notice -- it seems you almost never see adolescent boys and girls, or young men and women, walking hand in hand or with arms around each other.

They used to do that, didn't they?

I know I did.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22 Aug 21 | 03:16PM by Dale Nelson.

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems quaint, to think of old-fashioned
> schoolmarms reproaching little boys for whistling.
> Maybe kids still daydream in class, but my guess
> is they are texting and so on instead.
>
> A third change I notice -- it seems you almost
> never see adolescent boys and girls, or young men
> and women, walking hand in hand or with arms
> around each other.
>
> They used to do that, didn't they?
>
> I know I did.


A while back I noticed that in popular music; especially the alternative sub genre; there are very few love songs; or romantically based songs.

There are lust songs--there have always been some of these--but few songs even like from the 70s--Mas & Papas; Fleetwood Mac; Eagles; etc. I followed popular music thru grunge and it really started to go away then.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do people in North America, Europe, East Asia
> daydream much any more? Has daydreaming or
> reverie gone the way of walking down the street
> with your hands in your pockets as you whistle a
> tune? A thought prompted by de la Mare.

Akin, only vaguely perhaps, to daydreaming is inner flashes of visions. When going to bed, before drifting off into sleep, there sometimes comes visions of strange and distant landscapes. And these get clearer and continue developing, if we tell ourselves that we believe in them. I never can keep up that belief for long, for it seems too fantastic, and so the visions disappear.

I am convinced we have enormous untapped depths inside us, that are there for our taking if we decide to. Possibly spiritual visions connecting to other worlds. But even if not so, we still have vast potential inside that lies dormant, the accumulations of a lifetime of visual impressions (and, of course, of the other sensory organs as well) that have passed through our retinas, and which our brains can use to build marvelous inner visions. And when we decide to believe in it, it takes care of itself, and monstrous vistas come rolling.

Your comment reminded me a little of the novel Tolkien started, wrote much of, but didn't finish, The Notion Club Papers, in the Sauron Defeated volume of the History of Middle-earth.

De la Mare writes about the Moon in Behold, This Dreamer! I wonder how much experience of moonlight we have. I live near one of the edges of a small town that is surrounded by a small river and cultivated fields. Street lights shine, but when I look from a south-facing bedroom window into the rear of our property on a night of bright moonlight, I am able to see the changed appearance of tree branches and trunks and bushes. The "glamour" of moonlight isn't utterly dispelled.

Here's a reason not mentioned by Dobelli to avoid social media. (His brief was specifically against the news -- newspapers, "breaking news" on phones, etc.)

Namely -- unwanted bizarre behavior may be caught from social media.

[unherd.com]

We do better to read books such as Behold, This Dreamer! and to go for walks in the woods if we safely can do so. (I realize that for people in some places, a walk in the woods means setting oneself up for unpleasant encounters with vagrants.)

yesDale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's a reason not mentioned by Dobelli to avoid
> social media. (His brief was specifically against
> the news -- newspapers, "breaking news" on phones,
> etc.)
>
> Namely -- unwanted bizarre behavior may be caught
> from social media.
>
> [unherd.com]
> ourettes-leads-back-to-youtube-star/?mc_cid=9e12c9
> a14c&mc_eid=9cdda136af
>
> We do better to read books such as Behold, This
> Dreamer! and to go for walks in the woods if we
> safely can do so. (I realize that for people in
> some places, a walk in the woods means setting
> oneself up for unpleasant encounters with
> vagrants.)

I quickly read the article. It touches upon issues near and dear to my heart...

Can there even be such a thing as self-diagnosed mental illness? Perhaps there can be, but what's lacking in the current diagnostic environment is a bit of skepticism, because a much lesser social tick--attention seeking--is gratified by self-reporting symptoms of mental illness.

I mean, my grandparents, simple Balkan hillbillies, would have snorted derisively and in disbelief--always assuming that you could have gotten them to even understand that yes, people would freely demean themselves publicly, by reporting as serious afflictions nothing more than minor obstacles in life.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We are going to see more and more "mental illness."

Think of the relevance to our own time of the passage quoted below -- from a German book written, I suppose, in the early 1930s.


Adolf Köberle, The Quest for Holiness (English translation © 1936)

…we cannot take the influence exerted by either a morbid or a wholesome mental life seriously enough. The worst delusion of the materialistic thinking of the past decade is its almost complete loss of reverence or fear of the mighty, invisible power of “mere” ideas. Even a morbid imagination that remains limited to fancies and desires is a terrifying, living power, that can torment and enslave [end of p. 210] its victims to a fearful degree, creates an atmosphere around itself and infects and poisons others, as it tremendously increases the power of evil in the world, while in a blessed way, all pure, wholesome thinking and feeling, even when it happens in the most obscure places, spreads irresistibly and bears its certain fruit. The unbridled fecundity of morbid and evil imaginations must therefore be mercilessly combated and avoided because, under any circumstances, it is sufficient by itself alone to corrupt man utterly. But the most uncanny thing about such a play of desires is something else. It is the fact that the unrestrained roving thoughts never remain confined to the hidden chambers of the soul, but they crowd out into the open and display themselves in words and actions, that enslave, burden and shape the future of their author still more certainly than the morbid thoughts.

…An evil word is like a sped arrow that cannot be recalled. Its results are immeasurable and beyond all human control. The word has stronger formative power, it multiplies itself more rapidly and quickly than the originating thought. It produces lasting history, enmity and contention; inconspicuously and without effort it moulds the opinions and views of many, thus involving all the more responsibility….[continuing to p. 212:] the deed… finally involves the whole man.

Arthur Machen's miscellany Dog and Duck might be a book to place on the same shelf as Behold, This Dreamer!

I have been reading the Machen on again, off again -- it's a good book for that kind of reading.

It doesn't deal with the same subject as de la Mare's, but both books relate to poetic consciousness as opposed to "sociological consciousness."

Machen's book is scanned here:

[archive.org]

Would anyone be willing to give the piece therein called "The Merry Month of May" a reading? In the little sheet of notes I have tucked into my copy (a gift from an Irish friend), I wrote, about this essay -- "WOW -- this needs rereading and consideration -- can he be right?" Arthur Machen contrasts the olden mirth and merriment of the time of Chaucer with the humor characteristic of modernity. He might consider that, in our time, we are departing not only from merriment but from humor into the snark that Sawfish mentioned this morning at the film sub-genres thread here at ED.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 30 Aug 21 | 10:27AM by Dale Nelson.

SNIP...

>
> …An evil word is like a sped arrow that cannot
> be recalled. Its results are immeasurable and
> beyond all human control. The word has stronger
> formative power, it multiplies itself more rapidly
> and quickly than the originating thought. It
> produces lasting history, enmity and contention;
> inconspicuously and without effort it moulds the
> opinions and views of many, thus involving all the
> more responsibility…. the deed… finally
> involves the whole man.

The final paragraph reads like a rationale for external control of "hurtful speech".

The problem is this, as expressed in extremes for sake of clarity...

The object individual--the one hearing the speech--can exert self-control to his/her emotional response--essentially, it's "growing a thicker skin". In essence, the burden is on the object individual to diffuse any reaction.

Or, alternatively, the subject individual--the one uttering the speech--can be held responsible for the level of hurt inflicted--thus acting as a deterrent to such speech. On the compliant/report of hurtful speech, the subject individual must offer a defense, and failing to succeed, is subject to legal penalty.

There are intermediary points, too, but these two cases illustrate the issue. The current line seems to be drawn at verifiable, intentional falsehood that results in material damages; or as uttered against a member of specific protected group.

For the latter, the "reasonable person" test is not the guiding principal, so far as I know.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SNIP...
>
> >
> > …An evil word is like a sped arrow that
> cannot
> > be recalled. Its results are immeasurable and
> > beyond all human control. The word has
> stronger
> > formative power, it multiplies itself more
> rapidly
> > and quickly than the originating thought. It
> > produces lasting history, enmity and
> contention;
> > inconspicuously and without effort it moulds
> the
> > opinions and views of many, thus involving all
> the
> > more responsibility…. the deed… finally
> > involves the whole man.
>
> The final paragraph reads like a rationale for
> external control of "hurtful speech".

Sawish, I don't think Köberle is thinking of language police, but of (1) personal self-control and (2) social disapproval, which might take the form of someone saying "Shame!" or turning away from the speaker, etc.

The kind of "language police" we see now (who are so very biased and warped in their treatment of what counts as an offense) I take to be a symptom of the malady of our time. British cops might arrest someone for a bad word while standing off and letting openly criminal acts proceed.

I just ran across a passage in a comment at the First Known When Lost blog -- a passage from G. K. Chesterton's Autobiography, which I have copied and will paste here; it's about Yeats and, especially, de la Mare.

"I have known one or two isolated cases also of the mere man of imagination. It is always difficult to give even an outline of men of this kind; precisely because an outline is always the line at which a thing touches other things outside itself. I have already suggested very vaguely, for instance, something of the position of W. B. Yeats; but that is precisely because Yeats does touch some things outside his own thoughts; and suggests controversies about Theosophy or Mythology or Irish politics. But he who is simply the imaginative man can only be found in the images he makes and not in the portraits of him that other people make. Thus I could mention a number of detached and definite things about Mr. Walter de la Mare; only that they would not, strictly speaking, be about him. I could say that he has a dark Roman profile rather like a bronze eagle, or that he lives in Tallow not far from Tallow Court, where I have met him and many other figures in the landscape of this story; or that he has a hobby of collecting minute objects, of the nature of ornaments, but hardly to be seen with the naked eye. My wife happens to have the same hobby of collecting tiny things as toys; though some have charged her with inconsistency on the occasion when she collected a husband. But she and de la Mare used to do a trade, worthy of Goblin Market, in these pigmy possessions. I could mention the fact that I once found a school, somewhere in the wilds of the Old Kent Road, if I remember right, where all the little girls preserved a sort of legend of Mr. de la Mare, as of a fairy uncle, because he had once lectured there ever so long ago. I’ve no idea what spells he may have worked on that remote occasion; but he had certainly in the words of an elder English poet, knocked ‘em in the Old Kent Road. But even a thing like this has not strictly speaking anything to do with the subject; the centre and fullness of the subject. And I have never been able to say anything that is, in that sense, about the subject. The nearest I could ever come to judging imaginative work would be simply to say this; that if I were a child, and somebody said to me no more than the two words Peacock Pie, I should pass through a certain transforming experience. I should not think of it especially as being a book. I should not even think of it as being a man; certainly not as something now so sadly familiar as a literary man. A sacramental instinct within me would give me the sense that there was somewhere and somehow a substance, gorgeously coloured and good to eat. Which is indeed the case. Nor would any doubts and differences about the theoretical or ethical edges of Mr. Yeats’s personality affect my appetite, even now that I am no longer a child, for the silver apples of the moon and the golden apples of the sun.” (pp. 293 - 294)

Thanks Dale for the interesting little passage. It reminds me also of Mare's story "The Connoisseur", in which he describes a tiny weeny, pretty little object; I believe it was a black pearl, minusculary carved.