Hespire Wrote:
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> Sawfish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Gosh, Hespire, this brings to mind an old
> Japanese
> > B&W film I saw maybe 35-40 years ago, and
> whose
> > name I can't remember. It *seems* like an
> expanded
> > folktale--and maybe it derives from one. It's
> like
> > this:
> >
> > There's a remote village probably in feudal
> Japan.
> > There is a huge stone simalacrum of a warrior
> in
> > full armor who, at times, comes alive and
> wreaks
> > havoc.
> >
> > I remember nothing of the plot, but can recall
> > that on coming alive, he swept his gauntleted
> hand
> > across his face, which changed from a stern
> stone
> > visage to a snarling demon face. It was like
> > vengeance, personified.
> >
> > I am sure that this was not developed for US
> > audiences, but probably after the success of
> > Godzilla in the 1950s, a lot of Japanese
> domestic
> > market "monster" films were bought up in hopes
> of
> > appealing to the expanding US market.
> >
> > Do you know of it, H? I would like to know its
> > name and look it up.
>
>
> It sounds like a terrifying story, exactly the
> thing a Japanese village would have. Living
> statues and vengeful samurai spirits are common
> elements of rural folklore. My friend in Japan
> shared some fascinating stories, like the flying,
> flaming head of a decapitated samurai, or the
> statues of mischievous foxes that come to life at
> a temple of Inari (the god of rice, who is also a
> lord of foxes).
>
> Is Daimajin the film you're describing? I've seen
> it long ago, but I can't remember much besides a
> huge samurai statue terrorizing a village. I also
> remember thinking it scared me more than Godzilla!
> Maybe I'll watch Shin Gojira and Daimajin
> back-to-back next weekend, for a monster romp.

Yes! That's it!

Thanks!

>
> Regarding Japanese monster movies, I remember many
> of them were dubbed in English since the 70s, but
> they seem to have gotten more attention in recent
> years. Obscure movies such as Atragon, Dogora, and
> Matango have had successful blu-ray releases, and
> they've been releasing huge collections of the
> twenty-something Godzilla movies.
>
> I guess very few of those films would count as
> horror, but for this thread's purpose I remember
> Matango giving me real chills at night! It was
> when the last surviving man on an island was
> surrounded by humans who had been heavily mutated
> by mushrooms. All the fungus-infested beings were
> giggling and tittering maddeningly, while the
> heroine was calling to him for help as they were
> trying to mutate her. He was too scared however,
> and abandoned her to flee the island alone. When
> he returned to civilization, he realized he was
> already infected by the mushrooms, and regretted
> leaving the island, where at least he would have
> been accepted by the strange beings, rather than
> caged up and studied like a freak.

--Sawfish

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"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
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There are no horror movies in existence that could scare me but there are a lot of them that somehow have stuck in my mind. The Fog and The Thing by John Carpenter, Alien and Predator movies (except for Alien vs Predator 2, Predators, Predator: The Evolution and Alien: Covenant), Mimic 1, Get Out, The Ring etc. etc. etc. It would be a long, very long list ...

Hespire Wrote:
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> ... I remember Matango giving me real chills at night! It was
> when the last surviving man on an island was
> surrounded by humans who had been heavily mutated
> by mushrooms.

A nice one. And, I suppose everyone already knows, it was inspired by W. H. Hodgson's "The Voice in the Night".

There should be more original movies like that, seeking weirdness, instead of the commercialized entertainments appeasing to shallow human desires and impulses.

Dale Nelson Wrote:
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> Knygatin Wrote:
>
> > Godzilla eventually brought supernatural terror
> to
> > a level that we've never seen the likes of
> before.
>
> Oooo noooo! I can't un-see that!


I have decided to take you seriously on that. :) :/ My apologies. And I promise I will not do something like that again. On the other hand, a whole generation of Americans and Europeans were subjected to The Muppet Show and similar atrocities. Which is in actuality a greater terror to our integrity than any serious attempt at fictional horror. I now think I better understand why you avoid Television altogether.

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hespire Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ... I remember Matango giving me real chills at
> night! It was
> > when the last surviving man on an island was
> > surrounded by humans who had been heavily
> mutated
> > by mushrooms.
>
> A nice one. And, I suppose everyone already knows,
> it was inspired by W. H. Hodgson's "The Voice in
> the Night".
>
> There should be more original movies like that,
> seeking weirdness, instead of the commercialized
> entertainments appeasing to shallow human desires
> and impulses.


Despite the mainstream media's obsession with computer-generated imagery, and all the hubbub about its creative potential, I'm surprised by how similar so many movies are, especially in visuals and ideas. I guess if the producers or audiences insist on sameness, then actual weirdness won't be appreciated except in small bursts in otherwise conventional stories. Then again, there was that recent blockbuster adaptation of Lovecraft's Colour Out of Space, but I don't know much about it.

Hodgson's "The Voice in the Night" is one of my favorites, and I think it suits the Japanese taste for weird stories derived from a combination of natural science and uncanny nature-spirits. I like it when a movie can technically adapt a story without quite being that story, which I feel encourages creativity while giving the original source material its own space as a work of art/fiction. Maybe a Japanese animator could do something similar with CAS' fiction, especially since bizarre and experimental imagery is better appreciated in their mainstream media.

Anyhow, Kumi Mizuno is a bonus in whatever movie she stars in! Too bad she's no longer at that age to play a temptress from Zothique.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30 Aug 21 | 02:33AM by Hespire.

Hespire Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Despite the mainstream media's obsession with
> computer-generated imagery, and all the hubbub
> about its creative potential, I'm surprised by how
> similar so many movies are, especially in visuals
> and ideas. ...
>

Yes, it is absolutely awful!



> I like it when a movie can technically adapt a story
> without quite being that story, which I feel
> encourages creativity while giving the original
> source material its own space as a work of
> art/fiction.
>

I wholeheartedly agree. And that is the greatest compliment and respect a film maker can give to a work of fiction, ... being inspired by it instead of slavishly trying to copy it (which is impossible).

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dale Nelson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Knygatin Wrote:
> >
> > > Godzilla eventually brought supernatural
> terror
> > to
> > > a level that we've never seen the likes of
> > before.
> >
> > Oooo noooo! I can't un-see that!
>
>
> I have decided to take you seriously on that. :)
> :/ My apologies. And I promise I will not do
> something like that again. On the other hand, a
> whole generation of Americans and Europeans were
> subjected to The Muppet Show and similar
> atrocities. Which is in actuality a greater terror
> to our integrity than any serious attempt at
> fictional horror. I now think I better understand
> why you avoid Television altogether.

No, Knygatin, I thought the video clip of Godzilla scooting through the air was endearingly hilarious, and hastened to invite my wife to watch it with me.

My avoidance of TV isn't absolute. We'll watch weather reports sometimes, for example, and when that Endeavour series reappears we'll probably watch that (the police detective series). We watch two hours of The Three Stooges on Saturday afternoons. (I am thankful that my kids didn't see these when they were young an impressionable. The mayhem would have been contagious.) And we watch DVDs of old Twilight Zone teleplays, The Fugitive, Star Trek, etc.

For many years I have been hostile towards children's programming such as Sesame Street because I generally do not want children to meet fairy tales in supposedly clever parodies for that terribly victimized being, the modern child. No, no! Let them even be a little bit frightened by the witch in the wood, the dragon in the cave, the troll in the forest. All my children are adults living on their own now, and have been for years, but when they were little, I used to read, or better tell, them such stories in their winter-dark rooms, perhaps with a candle lit if I needed to read the story rather than retell it.

This might be unusual now. But it was for a long time a "natural" thing to do, when poetic consciousness was the norm.

Often, "cleverness" reflects sociological consciousness. We need more wisdom and a lot less such "cleverness." More straightforward laughter and tears, and fewer ironic grins.

Quote:

DN
Often, "cleverness" reflects sociological consciousness. We need more wisdom and a lot less such "cleverness." More straightforward laughter and tears, and fewer ironic grins.

Boy, *that's* right on the money.

This is The Age of Snark, in which one gains points by being hip enough to catch the most attenuated of innuendos.

That said, I regret falling to that level fairly often. On some forums, it's sort of the badge of passage--the Secret Handshake. You cannot even get a response without presenting something outrageous, simply to get their attention long enough to engage them.

Not needed, or countenanced in ED. It's why I'm here, folks.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
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Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> ... I thought the video clip of Godzilla
> scooting through the air was endearingly
> hilarious, and hastened to invite my wife to watch
> it with me.
>
>

I watched it maybe 4 times, and laughed equally much every time. Which is rare. Very disarming.

I agree wholeheartedly, Dale. A sincere expression of human emotions has given way to an overreliance on "clever" subversion. And the art of subtle irony has been forgotten for snark and sarcasm.

I don't watch movies or television like I used to, but sometimes I see glimpses of what's popular because of my nieces and nephews, and it seems that even children's entertainment is defined by cynicism and sarcasm. If something scary happens, a character has to quip about it. If something wondrous happens, a character has to quip about it. If something cliched happens, a character has to point out how it's cliched.

I'm not sure how much this affects children, but I notice that more kids and young folk today like to be snarky, especially toward subjects they might not fully understand. For instance, one of my nephews made a rather smug remark about how Heaven is only an illusion. I'm not a religious person, but I thought it would be useful for him to have a deeper discussion about Heaven, exploring its meaning, purpose, and the beautiful and not-so-beautiful expressions of its grandeur throughout human history. He stumbled a lot and stared at me blankly while going "Uuuuuuuhhhhh", and it turned out he didn't come to his conclusion because of deep consideration, but because he was following what others were snarking about at school or social media. From what I've seen, snarking doesn't demand any thought, because it exists to dismiss rather than analyze. It's more like a defense from having to engage with others and the possibility of a challenging conversation.

It seems there's an almost neurotic fear of vulnerability. A fear of sincerity and honesty with deeper thoughts, a fear of being open to conversations in which one's ignorance may be apparent, and a fear of expressing oneself passionately among other people (even in spaces where like-minded fellows exist). And it all seems to boil down to a fear of rejection that will be immortalized on the internet. But I think this could result in a culture where people are too afraid to engage with each other in any way that isn't numb, boring, stupid, or extreme.

Perhaps horror might be one of the few areas where snark and pseudo-intelligent sarcasm doesn't thrive, because the whole point of horror is to be scared out of your wits, to let go of rationality for the sake of primal overreactions.

I suppose certain forms of fantasy fiction have a degree of awe and wonder as well, but as I pointed out earlier, this feeling is secondary to some kind of sociological theme, moral lesson, or subversive "humor". The Kalevala cherishes the forest in itself, but in recent media the forest is only as impressionable as the theme will allow.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 30 Aug 21 | 11:33AM by Hespire.

I must add that I have nearly all the Three Stooges shorts on DVD! I can't help but laugh every time I see them!

To keep this closer to the thread's purpose, there were surprisingly eerie or unnerving scenes in the shorts that involve spooks and ghouls. I recall the scene when that parrot went into a human skull and started fluttering and crawling around a bedroom while someone (Larry was it?) tried to sleep!

Hespire Wrote:

> It seems there's an almost neurotic fear of
> vulnerability. A fear of sincerity and honesty
> with deeper thoughts, a fear of being open to
> conversations in which one's ignorance may be
> apparent, and a fear of expressing oneself
> passionately among other people (even in spaces
> where like-minded fellows exist). And it all seems
> to boil down to a fear of rejection that will be
> immortalized on the internet. But I think this
> could result in a culture where people are too
> afraid to engage with each other in any way that
> isn't numb, boring, stupid, or extreme.

Yes. Yet there may be a real hunger for just such conversations. Shortly before my retirement from teaching, I offered a one-time-only one-credit course on the philosophy of Plato. One student enrolled! We met for an hour a week in my office and read various dialogues. I had no professional preparation for teaching Plato and she didn't need the college credit; we just were interested. It was a good experience.

Hespire Wrote:

>The Kalevala cherishes the
> forest in itself, but in recent media the forest
> is only as impressionable as the theme will allow.


I must revisit this great work.

Hespire Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I must add that I have nearly all the Three
> Stooges shorts on DVD! I can't help but laugh
> every time I see them!
>
> To keep this closer to the thread's purpose, there
> were surprisingly eerie or unnerving scenes in the
> shorts that involve spooks and ghouls. I recall
> the scene when that parrot went into a human skull
> and started fluttering and crawling around a
> bedroom while someone (Larry was it?) tried to
> sleep!

I remember that parrot. Do you remember the one(s) with the cloaked figure wearing a grinning, toothy fright-mask? That could give a youngster a turn.

Quote:

Hespire
Perhaps horror might be one of the few areas where snark and pseudo-intelligent sarcasm doesn't thrive, because the whole point of horror is to be scared out of your wits, to let go of rationality for the sake of primal overreactions.

I think you're onto something important here.

Reading effective weird/horror is like skydiving probably is: you willingly abandon the rational when you step out of the plane.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~