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New writer and new to forum
Posted by: OConnor,CD (IP Logged)
Date: 13 November, 2008 08:09PM
Hi everyone,

I am a new and aspiring writer. My name is Charles D. O'Connor III and I am twenty five years of age. I must say it was H.P. Lovecraft and CAS who were the influences in getting me into the writing field. I do this as a hobby only, darn it. Means I have to get a real job, lol.

Any way for a good while I have been intrigued by this site and the things posted. Now I want to join and add to the interesting conversations. Below is a poem I have just finished and wish for constructive in put or comments. Also anyone is free to visit my myspace account (A temporary holding for my writing before my first anthology comes out). The address is www.myspace.com/derangedreamer. Feel free to look at my tales, comment, join as friends. All my life I've been looking for a group of intelligent people sort of like The Kalem club or something. LOL. well now that the invitation to join and peruse my myspace account has been give, on to my poem.

The Evening Song:
A Prelude To Night.
Written by
Charles D. O'Connor III


The suns' orange and yellow glow begins to fade;
Dropping lifelessly behind a mass of black clouds,
No more will it shine on a lively scene,
But become simply a weak and passing dream.

The flower scented air now grows rancid and stale;
Capturing evil from a thousand demons sickly gleams,
And passing it down to us in a torrent of ghastly screams.

People hear them and dash franticly away,
Hoping to escape thoughts protruding from their slime ridden pasts',
These thoughts continually shake around death stars,
Praying to awaken pain,
Creating a feast eating sanity from the brain.

And finally when the night has been announced,
Sharp organs pulse madly some distance away,
An old man now stands fearlessly outside;
A coffin by his side,
He drags his body inside and buries himself in earths cold hard clay,
Never again to witness the passing of another day.

Thanks guys and will be looking forward to adding intelligent insight to the forum.

Charles D. O'Connor III

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: Gavin Callaghan (IP Logged)
Date: 14 November, 2008 08:23PM
Hi there. I like your poem and encourage you to write more.

I wish I could write poetry. I annoys me that I can't. Poetry is sort of the string theory of language. I can do simple math, but...

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: OConnor,CD (IP Logged)
Date: 14 November, 2008 10:18PM
Thank you very much Gavin. It has taken me many years to perfect the art of the short story or poem. I say perfect but no artist actually masters their art. Your words have meant a lot and though I do not know if you write, I, however, do know the fear and hesitancy with the new writer.

But rest assured I will be posting more on here to share with all of my new friends. I also just opened an account at The Temple Of Dagon. My pen name is Thegravehill.

Thanks again Gavin,

Charles.

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: calonlan (IP Logged)
Date: 17 November, 2008 11:46PM
My dear young man,
You are quite brave to essay into this field - I have written far more than I have published, but I offer a couple of thoughts for you to ponder. 1)purely technical -- try "extruding" instead of "protruding" in the second line of the third stanza. You might also check your use or lack thereof of the apostrophe as a contracted possessive - remember it always means something is left out, and is not really a possessive indicator (we used to say John his book, before it became John's book).

Next: take your first serious look into Robert Graves' "The White Goddess" - I say first because it usually takes several readings before the gate it gaurds swings open fully, but it is well worth the effort -

As Gavin suggests, we are glad to have you aboard and eagerly wait to hear more from you -- I shall print your work so I can ponder it and read it aloud away from the computer - "how" the poem means is as important to me as the meaning and I have to "hear" it -- I encourage you to continue, and above write when the spirit (muse) moves you - strike when the iron is hot - in a life necessarily divided with work, it is often easy to miss those moments of creativity due to the exigencies of life itself - carry a notebook - you, and that which you are given to say, are important to us -- Let me know how you fare with Dr. Graves - I once had the privelege and the life altering joy of doing a Master Class with him while he was visiting Syracuse U. (my BA alma mater) to receive an honorary doctorate (along with Robert Frost, then 85, whom I was introduced to, but had no opportunity to spend time.
Can you tell us what part of the world you inhabit? I am so delighted you have come to know CAS!

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: OConnor,CD (IP Logged)
Date: 18 November, 2008 03:40AM
Dr. Farmer,

Thank you very much for your helpful input. My grammar has not always been the best and I don't usually write poetry. I am more of a short story writer but this idea that crossed my mind one evening while sitting outside in my garden could not take any other form but a poem, at least for me. I hope to one day publish many things and though odds are I shall not be remembered, it is refreshing to know I could change many hearts while I am alive. But, oh how to break through those big publishing houses to write what you really feel; art for arts sake.

I am impressed to hear that you met Robert Frost. Man, that was something special. Did the two of you talk or merely pass each other by like "Like two ships in the night"?

I inhabit Virginia Beach, VA in the United States. I love it here but hope to one day travel. I have already been to Providence RI and saw the whole Lovecraft tour but by myself with a video camera and had a blast. Especially the "Piece de resistance" the family plot at Swan Point Cemetery. Next I hope to visit the sites for CAS and REH. I can relate more to these gentlemen than any in todays world.

Again I am very gracious to the warm embraces I have received since joining this site and hope to, like wise, learn more about the people I converse with. My email is always available in my information.

Take Care,

Ch.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18 Nov 08 | 03:45AM by OConnor,CD.

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: calonlan (IP Logged)
Date: 18 November, 2008 11:21AM
I recommend you read my memoir of CAS in the little book, "The Sword of Zagan" - not because I need the $1.50, but because I think it will give you some insights you will find useful before going to Calif. - If you are coming to Tex. to REH locations, let Gavin and I know ahead and we might meet you someplace in Austin.

Don't worry about being remembered - just write - if you are an alum of some Univ. they may have a publication that includes graduates work - for starters --

Today, there is no such thing as a profession called Poetry - regrettably, you must write poetry only if you MUST. I have always advised young people to never be an actor, musician, artist, or poet unless you can't help it.

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: Gavin Callaghan (IP Logged)
Date: 19 November, 2008 06:01PM
> Dr. Graves - I once had the privelege and the life
> altering joy of doing a Master Class with him
> while he was visiting Syracuse U. (my BA alma
> mater) to receive an honorary doctorate (along
> with Robert Frost, then 85, whom I was introduced
> to, but had no opportunity to spend time.
> Can you tell us what part of the world you
> inhabit? I am so delighted you have come to know
> CAS!

All hail Syracuse! I lived/grew up in Owego, NY, which was about 2 hours south of Syracuse. I miss upstate New York/the Southern Tier; Florida is heck, to coin a phrase.

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: OConnor,CD (IP Logged)
Date: 19 November, 2008 10:45PM
I drove through New York on my way to Providence Gavin. Didn't look all that tremendous. I felt rather how Lovecraft may of felt when he was in the red hook district. Maybe I was looking at the wrong parts of NY?

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: OConnor,CD (IP Logged)
Date: 19 November, 2008 10:50PM
I sent the poem out to Southern Literary magazine and the editor told me the language and imagery were basically good but if I can fix all of it up he would take another look at it. I hope this gets published but I do not want to count my chickens before they've hatched. I'm just fearful. I've never been good at grammar and to admit I need help shakes me up. Woner if good ol' CAS had any problems and if he asked for help or was ashamed. Guess it goes with the male species. Any way I will keep everyone posted and if I get in I will dedicate the poem to everyone here and maybe send out some copies.

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: OConnor,CD (IP Logged)
Date: 19 November, 2008 10:53PM
And I also wonder what CAS would say to me personally if he were still alive. Dr. Farmer would know most of all since he met him.

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: Gavin Callaghan (IP Logged)
Date: 20 November, 2008 04:43PM
OConnor,CD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I drove through New York on my way to Providence
> Gavin. Didn't look all that tremendous. I felt
> rather how Lovecraft may of felt when he was in
> the red hook district. Maybe I was looking at the
> wrong parts of NY?

It depends on if you were in NYC or rural NY. Rural NY is gorgeous if you love bleak industrial decay. Owego is tops for decayed brick buildings, gothic gargoyles on cornices, tottering chimneys, abandoned factories, weird 1800's and early 1900's architecture, and general genteel decay. Weird Tales artist Lee Brown Coye lived near Syracuse, and closely identified that section of NY with HPL's Arkham/Dunwich. To paraphrase Coye, "A meteor (like the one from "The Colour Out of Space") may not have hit this area, but something sure did." I'm sure August Derleth felt the same way about his particular area of Wisconsin, as well. America is full of Arkham's

Here's a link to a pic taken by some tourist in Owego; notice how all the retro buffs on Flickr are impressed- but it's just an everyday eyesore to the folks in Owego!

[flickr.com]

[flickr.com]

[flickr.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 20 Nov 08 | 04:49PM by Gavin Callaghan.

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: OConnor,CD (IP Logged)
Date: 20 November, 2008 07:56PM
Wow Gavin. Looking at these abandoned buildings or just the picture gives me a bit of uneasiness. Its like something is inhabiting it or the buildings are actually looking at you. Thank you for sharing.

Charles.

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: Kyberean (IP Logged)
Date: 20 November, 2008 08:53PM
As a quick, useless addendum, I attended school in Ithaca, NY. That place always gave me the creeps, as well, and not just me, it seems, as the large number of student suicides there also attest. There really is "something" about upstate New York!

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: calonlan (IP Logged)
Date: 21 November, 2008 05:50PM
He would tell you write, write, then write some more - read voluminously in the classics.
After writing something, have a friend read it to you aloud after letting it rest a few days - you will hear the grammatical quirks, if any, then re-work it if necessary - agonize over alternative phraseology, in time a style that can be truly called "O'Conner" will emerge.
You might also look at his letters where this subject comes up from time to time.

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: Gavin Callaghan (IP Logged)
Date: 21 November, 2008 08:21PM
Kyberean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a quick, useless addendum, I attended school in
> Ithaca, NY. That place always gave me the creeps,
> as well, and not just me, it seems, as the large
> number of student suicides there also attest.
> There really is "something" about upstate New
> York!


Wow- small woild; I went to Ithaca College for 2 yrs., film program. Loved Ithaca. A lot of people liked jumping in the ravines.

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: Knygatin (IP Logged)
Date: 24 November, 2008 09:18AM
Dorothea Brande's Becoming A Writer from the 1930's, is a really fine book. It deals not with writing techniques, but with the psychological blocks that may stop a writer. Ray Bradbury recomends this book very much (his own Zen In The Art of Writing is also quite good).

For techniques and grammar, I have used an old high school grammar book, and A New Guide to Better Writing (be warned of newer editions, in which parts have been omitted and sacrificed on the altars of the politically correct. My copy. ), as reference. The Elements Of Style, 4th edition , is also said to be good. I have not read it, but am about to.

Much more important though, is to write a lot. And to read. And, as Farmer says, to read parts you like loud to yourself; hearing it will get an instinctive feel for the language (and besides, it will give you the added pleasure and the more intimate sensation of the natural aesthetics and organic truth of the language, a treasure that only a long history of interesting life and cultural evolvement can create in a language). Grammar and techniques should preferably be learned like riding a bicycle, and not be used consciously to build text, but only consulted as side reference for details when needed. It is pure Visions that flow through a good writer's pen, not conscious ideas about language. This state evolves only gradually with training over the years. In the beginning the language of every writer will be stilted, but this doesn't really matter as long as there are interesting visions and ideas glowing in the background. Visions is the essence of writing, and fantastic imagination is not built only from reading fiction, but equally important, from building a store of manifested firsthand knowledge and life experience.

I am not a fiction or poetry writer, and have not trained for it. And I hated grammar back in school. I am more into visual art. My English is limited, but I'm still happy for what I have learned later in life from my own efforts, enough for passably presenting some of my ideas in communication. When writing, I simply visualize the events in my head, and try to put down the corresponding words in the same order as the events would grab attention from the mind (which does not always follow a seemingly obvious linear timescale, since the relation between elements of reality, and their subjective importance, can be more complex), often using a dictionary and thesaurus to exactly capture my meaning.

If you read Smith's letters and essays, you will know indirectly what he would have told you. But it doesn't really matter what he would have told you, or what anyone tells you. His magic would not have transfered over to you. We all want to, and try to, help others in the best way we can and believe in, from our own perspective. But everyone has his/her own individual path to follow, and only takes in the knowledge he is already aimed for, and this knowledge comes naturally within easy reach (although the acquiring may take time, and also include searching out other individuals for specific knowledge) as one pursues ones interests. And being an artist, in any field, is usually not a smooth path (unless you are extremely talented. But even then, you still can't escape the existential struggles); and self-critical as artists are, it's a constant struggle with self-imposed feeling of failure. You crash, rise up again, run along with joy, crash, rise upp again.. Eventually over time you become better and better from experience and training. Also, remember that working as an artist is a privilege, you do it primarily for the pure joy the creative process brings you. Most people never get to experience such joy. It has a value by itself, and will not necessarily lead to money. It is an added fortune to also be able to make a living out of it. That is a gift for a job done well. Pursuing art for the money will surely backfire, unless one is a skilled con-artist with sharp elbows. The dedication to imagination and creativity, and sensitivity of perception, is everything that matters.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 24 Nov 08 | 10:28AM by Knygatin.

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: OConnor,CD (IP Logged)
Date: 24 November, 2008 11:11AM
Knygatin,

You are so correct. The pure joy of art is in the creation itself. Many artists struggle with that, some more than others. I just happen to be one of those select few who is never happy with what he creates. But yes, I am sure as I get older the dark clouds will fade, revealing a luscious spring time garden.

You definetly have keen insight and what you say is so touching. I believe that is as equally as important.

Your cool buddy,

Ch.

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: Eldritch Frog (IP Logged)
Date: 24 November, 2008 02:35PM
Just keep reading and writing. If you want to write poetry, you should regularly read it aloud. Like others mentioned, keep a journal on you or email yourself ideas while at work so you don't miss out on spontaneous ideas or truths.

Some day, with persistence, you will have your own tome of Eldritch Horrors to be proud of! Even if everyone else thinks it is horrible, your writing/ideas are your own and nobody can take that from you!

For you, I highly recommend "The Atlantis Fragments"!

[www.hippocampuspress.com]

Welcome to the forum wayward traveler!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24 Nov 08 | 02:49PM by Eldritch Frog.

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: australianreaderdotcom (IP Logged)
Date: 20 December, 2008 11:20PM
G'day, Charles,

good to have you on board. If you're interested, you could always email me some of your poetry, as I am starting up an e-zine of poetry from January, and I would love to see more of your work. I'll be dropping by your Myspace page as well.

Phillip

P.S.: Apropros the remark that it is impossible to have poet as a career, I think Les Murray is making a good crack at it, and surviving quite well.

P.P.S.: And don't forget to read your work aloud, as well, as an ongoing process

it helps.

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: OConnor,CD (IP Logged)
Date: 21 December, 2008 02:30AM
Phillip,

I thank you very much for the offer. I have finally edited and condensed my poem to a proper poetical pattern. I would be glad to send it. Is your email address australianreader.com. Lastly, Alot of things on my myspace page are practise exercises for only myself and are not things I am sending out and that rather vulgar one I wrote when I was angry. Just letting any word pour fourth from my mouth. I will try the australianreader.com and send you the poem posted here.

Charles D. O'Connor III

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: wilum pugmire (IP Logged)
Date: 25 January, 2009 11:09PM
I think that Tom Ligotti has mastered the craft and is our perfect writer (in response to your remark that none of us be perfect). I never cringe when I read his work, as I sometimes do when reading those masters whom I love like Lovecraft and Smith. Your poem is imaginative and has some lovely imagery.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 25 Jan 09 | 11:12PM by wilum pugmire.

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: Kyberean (IP Logged)
Date: 26 January, 2009 06:25AM
Debating matters of taste is fruitless, so I'll simply add I couldn't possibly disagree more about Ligotti, who, in my opinion, is tremendously overrated.

Because of subjectivity and varying personal taste, there has never been, nor will there ever be, consensus as to perfection in the arts. Even the reputations of Shakespeare and Bach have had periods of eclipse.

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: Jojo Lapin X (IP Logged)
Date: 26 January, 2009 10:52AM
Ligotti, to me, is artificiality and pretentiousness with no point. Do not misunderstand me: I like artificiality and pretentiousness. I just want it to have a point.

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: wilum pugmire (IP Logged)
Date: 26 January, 2009 12:33PM
Jojo Lapin X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ligotti, to me, is artificiality and
> pretentiousness with no point. Do not
> misunderstand me: I like artificiality and
> pretentiousness. I just want it to have a point.


You have both left me stunned -- and almost speechless, with your views on Ligotti. To those of you who wou'd like to learn why Tom is our greatest living weird literary artist, I refer you to the magnificent site, THOMAS LIGOTTI ONLINE.

However, this is an excellent example for our new young writer to take in -- pay no heed to public opinion when it concerns the creation of your own literary work. You are an individual artists with your own perspective on life and art. Your dreams are your own -- no one else can possess them. & thus spin your fiction and your poetry in your own manner, be precisely and beautifully yourself. If you are influenc'd by another genre writer, do not try to hide that fact, but celebrate it. Use the influence of other weird writers as a foundation of inspiration with which to build your own very distinct gothic castle of wondrous imagination. Be completely and deliciously yourself. This is easy in the small press, where we have publishers and editors who truly appreciate the individual, and who champion the artist as outsider. For Lovecraft we have Arkham House and Hippocampus Press, and for Clark Ashton Smith we now have the wonderful volumes coming from Night Shade Press, and the poetry volumes from Hippocampus.

Do not fear editorial rejection. If an editor is severely harsh and even cruel to your attempts at writing (and I have had some experience with that), remember that what one editor hates another will cherish. Never give up in the face of repeated rejection. And use the opportunity to post some of your writing online. People online tend to be extremely helpful and honest in their reaction to new writers who allow people to read their beginning work. The important thing, the only really vital thing, is to write. Write, write, write -- until you have enough material to fill a small volume of collected works, and then try to place that collection with a publisher. Of course, I speak as one who writes almoft exclusively for the Lovecraftian underground. None of this can apply to you if you wish to make a career of writing. That is an area of which I know nothing. Best of luck to you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26 Jan 09 | 12:35PM by wilum pugmire.

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: Kyberean (IP Logged)
Date: 26 January, 2009 07:29PM
Wilum:

Don't get me wrong: I do like some of Ligotti's work, very much. I simply am less enamored of it than others seem to be, and I think that he is overrated, on the whole. At his best, Ligotti's work is poetic and evocative, but at its worst, his writing is precious and needlessly obscure. I also have zero sympathy for his nihilistic, self-defeating world-view (although I have tremendous sympathy regarding his unfortunate mental illness). I would certainly never discourage anyone from reading his work.

I am glad that you are reasonable about the disagreement, though. I remember a couple of people from the Ligotti Web site you mention who got wind of my (mildly expressed) negative view of Ligotti, who then came to the forum where I was contributing, provoked me into a flame war (I should not have taken the bait, of course), and departed. I learned from that incident that some of Ligotti's fans are not much more emotionally stable than he is!

Anyway, to get back on track, your advice to aspiring fiction writers is excellent. These days, no one who aspires to artistry and quality should try to earn a living by writing, unless it is completely unrelated to one's art.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26 Jan 09 | 07:31PM by Kyberean.

Re: New writer and new to forum
Posted by: wilum pugmire (IP Logged)
Date: 26 January, 2009 08:17PM
Yes, we Ligottians are passionate -- but hopefully not rudely so. I feel the same about Lovecraft. It's difficult for me not to react emotionally when I read someone trashing HPL as a bad writer. Since coming online two months ago, I have made a vow to myself to keep my cool, to be gracious and intelligent as I am able, and to try and consider what I write -- and what is read by so many potential numbers of people. But I am EXTREMELY PASSIONATE about weird literature, and I have to do what I can to preach the gospel of those whom I admire, those whose works have inspired me to try and improve my own weird writing. And if by my example of keeping my cool, as well as my dead serious love of our genre, I can hopefully inspire new writers to feel that same seriousness and passion for weird fiction and its master -- very cool indeed. Thanx.



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