My new project to discover obscure Public domain weird or strange stories.

I have already passed through "supernatural fiction database" and some of Violet Books' "Lost Race Checklist",but the details are rather flimsy.So the curent stage of my research is going through all fiction L.W.Currey has from the period 1800-1923.

Just passed title # 2936.

What I found there,and some other places in the past weeks will be posted here-a rather lengthy list, but I'll update what will be real good.All theese are availible online.

* A BOOK OF STRANGE SINS BY COULSON KERNAHAN

* ALFRED NOYES-Walking Shadows (some tales)

* AN ITINERANT HOUSE AND OTHER STORIES by EMMA FRANCES DAWSON

* Archibald Malmaison by Julian Hawthorne

* AT A WINTER'S FIRE-Bernad Capes

* AT LA GLORIEUSE by M.E.M.Davis

* AUT DIABOLUS AUT NIHIL AND OTHER TALES by Field

* AVATAR-BY THÉOPHILE GAUTIER

* Cecilia de Noël-LANOE FALCONER

* DAN COSTARD'S TALE by Maurice Hewlett from ""New Canterbury tales"

* Daughters of Babylon A Novel By Wilson Barrett and Robert Hichens

* DER SCHARFRICHTER-by M.Y. Halidom

* Dream stories by Anna B. Kingsford (from "Dreams and Dream-Stories")

* E. F. Benson Collected Stories

* Stories by E.Nesbit:Man-size in marble,"The Ebony Frame","John Charrington's Wedding",The Mystery of the Semi-Detached,Uncle Abraham's Romance,and In the Dark

* Two tales from E.W.Peattie-The Shape of Fear, and other ghostly tales

* Encounters-Stories by Elizabeth Bowen

* FLOATING FANCIES AMONG THE WEIRD AND THE OCCULT BY CLARA H. HOLMES

* Rudyard Kipling tales:BUBBLING WELL ROAD,THE DREAM OF DUNCAN PARRENNESS, THE COURTING OF DINAH SHADD, AT THE END OF THE PASSAGE, In The Same Boa,'Swept And Garnished,The Strange Ride of Morrowbie Jukes,'THE FINEST STORY IN THE WORLD',A MATTER OF FACT, THE LOST LEGION

* GEOFFREY'S WIFE BY MARY CHOLOMONDELY

* GHOST STORIES OF AN ANTIQUARY By M. R. JAMES

* GODS AND WOOD-THINGS BY L. H. ALLEN

* GREEN MANSIONS A Romance of the Tropical Forest by W. H. Hudson

* Some tales by H.B. MARRIOTT WATSON

* HANS OF ICELAND BY VICTOR HUGO

* HAUNTINGS by VERNON LEE

* HIDDEN WITCHERY BY NIGEL TOURNEUR

* Honolulu BY W. SOMERSET MAUGHAM

* HOW LOVE CAME TO PROFESSOR GUILDEA-Robert Hichens

* In Amundsens tent-by John Martin Leahy

* IN SEARCH OF THE OKAPI By ERNEST GLANVILLE

* IN THE SANCTUARY-by A. VAN DER NAILLEN

* IN THE STRANGER PEOPLES COUNTRY-Cradock

* Some tales from J. D. BERESFORD -NINETEEN IMPRESSIONS

* JERRY BUNDLER by W.W.Jacobs

* Kerfol-Edith Wharton

* Lazarus by Leonid Andryev

* Leabhar Sgeulaigheachta-translated by Douglas Hyde

* Limehouse Nights by Thomas Burke

* LOST BORDERS BY MARY AUSTIN

* LOUQUIER‘S THIRD ACT and BELSHAZZAR S LETTER by KATHARINE FULLERTON GEROULD

* MAURICE BARING-Orpheus in Mayfair

* MODERN GHOSTS
SELECTED AND TRANSLATED FROM THE WORKS
OF GUY DE MAUPASSANT, PEDRO ANTONIO
DE ALARCON, ALEXANDER L. KIELLAND, LEO-
POLD KOMPFRT, GUSTAVO ADOLFO BEG
QUER, AND GIOVANNI MAGHERINI-GRAZIANI

* Morgan Robertson-Over the border

* NIGHT ON THE BORDERS OF THE BLACK FOREST-AMELIA B. EDWARDS

* NOUGHTS AND CROSSES-ARTHUR THOMAS QUILLER-COUCH

* OFF SANDY HOOK AND OTHER STORIES BY RICHARD DEHAN

* OMEGA THE LAST DAYS OF THE WORLD BY CAMILLE FLAMMARION

* ON THE STAIRCASE by Katharine F. Gerould

* OWEN WINGRAVE by Henry James

* PAN AND THE TWINS BY EDEN PHILLPOTTS

* Pharos the Egyptian-Guy Boothby

* PRINCESS SAYRANE A ROMANCE OF THE DAYS OF PRESTER JOHN by EDITH OGDEN HARRISON

* Richard Middleton stories (including The Coffin Merchant)

* Robert Barr stories

* ROMANTIC LEGENDS OF SPAIN By GUSTAVO ADOLFO BECQUER

* Six cent sam's by Julian Hawthorne

* SOULS ON FIFTH BY GRANVILLE BARKER

* Some stories from th enigmatic "B", including "The Strange Fate of
Mr Peach"

* SUBTERRANEAN TEMPLES by Pierre Loti

* STIVINGHOE BANK by H.R.Malden

* The Ashes of a God By F. W. BAIN

* THE AZTEC TREASURE-HOUSE By Thomas Allibone Janvier

* THE BATTLE FOR THE PACIFIC AND OTHER ADVENTURES AT SEA

* The Bell in the Fog And Other Stories By Gertrude Atherton

* The Black Douglas By S.R. Crockett

* THE BLACK SPANIEL BY ROBERT HICHENS

* THE CAPTAIN'S STORY by Rebecca Harding Davis

* THE COLUMN OF DUST by EVELYN UNDERHILL

* THE CRUSHED FLOWER AND OTHER STORIES-Leonid Andreyev

* The Crystal Cup By Bram Stoker

* THE CURATE'S TALE, by Christian Isobel Johnstone

* THE CUTTING-OF OF THE 'QUEEN CHARLOTTE' AND A POINT OF THEOLOGY ON MADURO by Lousi Becke

* THE DEVIL OF THE MARSH-by H. B. Marriott-Watson

* THE EMPEROR OF ELAM AND OTHER STORIES BY H. G. DWIGHT

* THE EYE OF ISTAR BY WILLIAM LE QUEUX

* THE FAIR MISSISSIPPIAN by Mary Noailles Murfree

* The Fearsome Island By Albert Kinross

* THE FIFTH MESSAGE FROM THE TIDELESS SEA-by William Hope Hodgson

* THE FOLLOWER and A RIP VAN WINKLE OF THE KALAHARI by Frederick Cornell

* THE FROZEN PIRATE-W. CLARK RUSSELL (an adventure tale,but with striking imagery in the begining)

* THE GRAY MAN-by Sarah Orne Jewett

* THE GREAT TABOO by GRANT ALLEN

* The Harbor-Master-R.W.Chambers

* THE HORSE-THIEVES by Alexander Kuprin

* THE HOUSE BY THE CHURCH-YARD by J. SHERIDAN LE FANU

* The House on Stilts A Novel BY R. H. HAZARD

* THE CHARMER OF SNAKES and THE TRIBUTE OF SOULS by Robert Hichens

* THE INTOXICATED GHOST AND OTHER STORIES BY ARLO BATES

* The Island of the Stairs By CYRUS TOWNSEND BRADY

* THE LAGOON OF DESIRE BY W. F. ALDER

* THE LITTLE ROOM by Madelene Yale Wynne

* THE LORD OF THE DARK RED STAR BY EUGENE LEE-HAMILTON

* THE LORD OF THE SEA By M.P.Shiel

* THE LOST STRADIVARIUS-BY J. MEADE FALKNER

* The Man on the Other Side by Ada Barnett

* The Man With The Cough- Mrs Molesworth

* THE MARQUIS OF TUSCANY by Jeremiah Cummings

* The Master Key by L. Frank Baum

* The Master of Silence A Romance By Irving Bacheller

* The Minions Of Midas by Jack London

* The Moon-Gazer and One other by D.N.J

* THE MUMMY OF THOMPSON-PRATT by C. J. CUTCLIFFE HYNE

* The Night Wire-H. F. Arnold-a very powerfull short tale.Reminds one of M.P.Shiel

* THE NINTH VIBRATION AND OTHER STORIES-BY L. ADAMS BECK

* THE OCTAVE OF CLAUDIUS-BARRY PAIN

* The People of the Pit-by Abraham Merritt (absolutely marvelous)

* The Phantom Death-by W. Clark Russell

* The Phial of Dread by Fitz Hugh Ludlow

* The Prayer by Violet Hunt

* The Professional and Other Psychic Stories

* THE RED LAUGH-by Leonid Andreyev-one of the most marvelous strange tales ever writen.Like Kafka going to war and keeping focus.

* THE ROMANCE OF GOLDEN STAR by GEORGE GRIFFITH

* THE SECRET OF APOLLOPS SEPTRIO by Leonard Kip

* THE SEVEN WHO WERE HANGED-Andreyev.A very wonderfull book.

* The Seventh Man-Arthur Quiller-Couch

* The Ship That Saw a Ghost by Frank Norris

* THE SLAYER OF SOULS-R.W.Chambers

* THE SPIRIT OF BAMBATSE A ROMANCE By H. RIDER HAGGARD

* THE STRANGE ADVENTURE OF JAMES SHERVINTON AND OTHER STORIES By Louis Becke

* THE STRANGE STORY OF AHRINZIMAN by Anita Silvani

* The Thing in the Cellar by David H. Keller

* THE UNINHABITED HOUSE-MRS. J.H. RIDDELL

* The Villa of the Peacock And Other Stories By Richard Dehan

* THE TOLL-HOUSE-W.W. Jacobs

* THE WEIRD ORIENT-NINE MYSTIC TALES BY HENRY ILIOWIZI

* THE WHITE WATERFALL BY JAMES FRANCIS DWYER

* THE WITCH OF PRAGUE by F. MARION CRAWFORD

* THE WOMAN FROM PURGATORY by Marie Belloc Lowndes

* The Worshipper of the Image By RICHARD LE GALLIENNE

* THOSE WHO RETURN by Maurice Level

* Three stories By F. TENNYSON JESSE (A SHEPHERDESS OF FAUNS ,THE GREATEST GIFT )

* THURNLEY ABBEY-by Perceval Landon

* TOLD BY THE DEATH'S HEAD by Maurus Jokai(has a few supernatural episodes)

* TONGUES OF CONSCIENCE by ROBERT HICHENS

* Two OLIVE M.BRIGGS tales

* Two stories by A.E.Coppard

* Two tales of Henry Augustin Beers

* Under the Hermes and other Stories by Richard Dehan

* UNPATH'D WATERS BY FRANK HARRIS

* WAR AND THE WEIRD BY FORBES PHILLIPS AND R.T.Hopkins

* Weird tales from Northern seas by Jonas Lie

* WEIRD TALES FROM THE PAGES OF „IN A CANADIAN CANOE“-Barry Pain

* WINGS TALES OF THE PSYCHIC-ACHMED ABDULLAH

* WOLVERDEN TOWER by Grant Allen

* ZISKA THE PROBLEM OF A WICKED SOUL BY MARIE CORELLI

* THE HOUSE OF TERROR and others by A. E. W. MASON

* Five Storis by BRANDER MATTHEWS

Intruiging project.

Anyone have $35,000.00 dollars to spend?....

[www.abebooks.com]

LETTERS FROM H. P. LOVECRAFT TO EMIL PETAJA, 1934-1937. 28 letters, totaling 104 pages, of which approximately 95% is unpublished. 23 of the letters are entirely unpublished. Extracts, some very brief, from five of the letters are published in SELECTED LETTERS, volume V. Together with: TYPED MANUSCRIPT. Six leaves (of 10) of an unidentified short story by Petaja with holograph corrections throughout by Lovecraft. According to Petaja, the manuscript, missing the first four leaves was written around 1935. The story, which remains unpublished, is a reincarnation fantasy involving Antony and Cleopatra; TYPED MANUSCRIPT. "Alphabetical List of Fantasy Authors." typed by Petaja, with extensive handwritten notes by Lovecraft. 2 pages on 1 sheet mea
Lovecraft, H[oward] P[hillips].

Bookseller:
Currey, L.W. Inc. ABAA/ILAB
(Elizabethtown, NY, U.S.A.)

Book Price:
US$ 35000.00
Quantity: 1

Description: Emil Petaja was admittedly one of the lesser satellites orbiting around H. P. Lovecraft. Still a college student in Montana when he sent him a fan letter in 1934, Petaja went on to carve out a small literary niche for himself in fantasy literature, primarily by using material from the Kalevala, the great epic of his ancestral Finland. Answering the boy's letter with characteristic generosity, Lovecraft sent back the requested autograph and snapshot, and went on to send him 27 more letters over the next two and a half years, the last a mere two weeks before his own death. Some are perfunctory, many are substantial and all have those characteristic felicities common to one of the great letter-writers of the 20th century. As a lot, they are of interest for documenting the entire span of one of HPL's literary friendships; for the fresh and full self- portrait required by the newness of the relationship; and by the rich, warm sunset tone found in some, when their author put aside his customary grandiosity and cynicism. Elsewhere the reader will find evidence of familiar virtues and idiosyncrasies. And everywhere we see Lovecraft, the person, at his best, in his patient encouragement and gentle tutelage of a wet-behind-the-ears youngster. Several letters contain de facto essays of moderate length that could easily be extracted for separate publication; in particular, letter #25 has a long and touching tribute to amateur journalism that should belong in any core collection of his nonfiction. A few highlights. Comparing himself unfavorably to the masters of weird fiction (Machen, Blackwood, etc.) leads to an unfavorable comparison of these to "the masters of general literature -- whose comprehension & reflection of the human scene are so much fuller & better-proportioned." Finding DRACULA overrated, he recalls the reaction to it by his friend Mrs. Miniter when she was offered (and turned down) the job of revising an early draft of it in 1893. Expounding his materialistic philosophy, he outlines the anthropological basis of superstitions and speculates on the possibility of extraterrestrial life. Answering the question of whether he had read the daring 1928 novel of lesbianism, THE WELL OF LONELINESS, Lovecraft expostulates at some length on the "homosexual vices" and other sexual depravities in ancient Greece and contemporary America. Mourns the death, in July 1936, of Robert E. Howard ("Two-Gun Bob"). Directing young Petaja's reading and informing him of the progress of one book or another on the postal book-lending circuit, he comments, sometimes at length, on a number of authors, including Machen, Blackwood, Shiel, Dunsany, Huysmans, Ibsen, Ellen Glasgow, Michael Arlen, James Branch Cabell, Hugh Walpole, Hodgson, Stapledon, Wilde, Homer, Plato, Aeschylus, Euripedes, Toksvig and Meyrink; as well as the contributors to Weird Tales (including, of course, himself), most of the important ones also being friends or at least acquaintances of Lovecraft -- "our weird gang." One of the most interesting items in the archive is Petaja's typewritten list of 169 names, titled "Alphabetical List of Fantasy Authors", with annotations by Lovecraft as well as his supplementary list of some 30 "High-Grade (more or less) Weird Writers" and 37 others, including himself, in an "Inferior Group -- the Pulp Writers." The former list by HPL will contain few surprises for anyone familiar with his essay on "Supernatural Horror in Literature", but Petaja's list contains a good many alluringly obscure names, including 75 not annotated by HPL or mentioned in his essay. Whether these were unfamiliar to him or unimportant to him is impossible to say without further study -- or even if all of them are, indeed, authors of fantasy fiction. But Lovecraft himself notes the foolhardiness of automatically discounting the unfamiliar, confessing that he had never heard of William Hope Hodgson until 1931 or read him until 1934. All in all, a significant cache of documents t. Bookseller Inventory # 108248

Why is this listed on abebooks? It is not a book, or a publication of any kind. What is the world coming to? Also, the price seems a tad unrealistic.

I am on record as advocating a tenth Circle of Hell for book publishers of the Durto, Ash Tree, or Tartarus type, and for the second-hand--uh, I mean, "antiquarian"--booksellers, a la Currey, who pander to them and to the "collectors' market", in general.

Merry Xmas, all! :-P

They wouldn't ask that kind of price if there weren't people willing to pay it. Supply and demand.

That fact doesn't make the situation right, but it's a typical excuse, certainly: "It's how capitalism works". That naked assertion is supposed to justify anything, and to silence all dissent. Vox mercatus vox dei est. Even in the face of the economic events of the past several months, it appears that the ideology of unfettered capitalism as the summum bonum dies hard.

Anyway, I don't intend to argue the point; the above is just my opinion of the situation. In sum, long live online public domain texts, and to Hell with exploitative repackagers!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 25 Dec 08 | 03:54PM by Kyberean.

1. I repeat: It is not a book, it is a set of original documents. Hence it has nothing to do with the outrageous crimes allegedly perpetrated by publishers such as Tartarus and the Ash-Tree Press; at the very least it is a different category of crime.

2. I very much doubt the items will actually sell for $35,000.

Jojo Lapin X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1. I repeat: It is not a book, it is a set of
> original documents. Hence it has nothing to do
> with the outrageous crimes allegedly perpetrated
> by publishers such as Tartarus and the Ash-Tree
> Press; at the very least it is a different
> category of crime.
>
> 2. I very much doubt the items will actually sell
> for $35,000.

Maybe not. Currey has a 10% discount in effect, so the asking price is currently $31,500. Hey, you can get the two Mss. for "The Shunned House" for $90,000! ;-)

I would be interested in reading the contents of the Lovecraft-Petaja correspondence; my interest in owning the actual documents is practically nonexistent. In fact, I think they should be donated to the library at Brown University.

By the way, and this is somewhat off-topic, why is there (as far as I know) no Lovecraft message board? Robert E Howard and Clark Ashton Smith have special message boards dedicated to them, but Lovecraft, the most popular of the three, does not have one. It is most curious.

I usually hang out at [www.sffchronicles.co.uk] (that's where I'm posting my errata for the B&N book). Pretty decent place.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26 Dec 08 | 05:13AM by Martinus.

Jojo Lapin X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...why is
> there (as far as I know) no Lovecraft message
> board? Robert E Howard and Clark Ashton Smith have
> special message boards dedicated to them, but
> Lovecraft, the most popular of the three, does not
> have one. It is most curious.

Here is your Lovecraft forum for you. Try and read it. It's full of spam. That's what happens with a hugely popular writer. Maybe there is some good stuff on that board, I have not looked very closely.

Martinus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I usually hang out at
> [www.sffchronicles.co.uk]
> (that's where I'm posting my errata for the B&N
> book). Pretty decent place.

Thanks! There are indeed some interesting threads there (most of them the work of a single individual). As, however, there are some signs that the forum is one of the drama-oriented kind (e.g., some threads appear to have been deleted), I am not sure I would register and post there. I cannot stand the idea that I should have to watch what I say in order that nobody be "offended."

I see im gting a lot of on topic responses :/

And I had gone up to 3861 till now. The aditions include

A Bachelor‘s Supper by J.A.Mitchell

THE SIGN OF THE SPIDER BY BERTRAM MITFORD

THE INDUNA'S WIFE by Bertram Mitford

BACK THERE IN THE GRASS by GOUVERNEUR MORRIS

POSSESSED by CLEVELAND MOFFETT

THE BROOCH by Neil Munro

THE JESTER BY LESLIE MOORE

ECKERMANN AND TANNEMEYER and one other by James O Neill

THE DOOM OF MAMELONS By William Murray

THE SENSE OF TOUCH by Ernest Dunlop Swinton

THE SOUL OF PIERRE BY GEORGE OHNET

VANDOVER AND THE BRUTE By Frank Norris

WILL by VINCENT O‘SULLIVAN

THE BECKSIDE BOGGLE and LOST ON THE MOOR by Alice Rea

THREE PENHALLOW TALES (my title for the documents of three tales from the "PENHALLOW" book) BY Edith Robinson

THE HAND OF THE MANDARIN QUONG and TCHERIAPIN by Sax Rohmer

EZRA CAINE BY JOSEPH SMARTS

THE SWEET-SCENTED NAME BY FYODOR SOLOGUB

The Fifth String By John Philip Sousa

OLD FIRES AND PROFITABLE GHOSTS by Quiller-Couch

THE HAUNTED YACHT by Quiler-Couch

THE ROLL-CALL OF THE REEF BY QUILLER-COUCH

----------------------

Also,ive just seen the original "Pym" on sale for not 10 000,but ONLY 9 000, arguably the bigest discount on a book ive ever seen.

Also,I share the local sentiments on Ash Tree and on Currey's prices,even though it serves me quite well.


Jojo-its a good place.All you need do is not insult anyone,or post garbage and then youll be okay,I dont know WHAT gave you that idea,nor the one that not insulting anybody is an "inconvenience".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26 Dec 08 | 08:20PM by David Kartas.

also,"SUBTERRANEAN TEMPLES by Pierre Loti and "The litle red room" are both more then worth reading,the first having shudering implications and the second being reminescent of O.Onions, who had no idea his initials would serve as a smiley emoticon one day.

David Kartas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see im gting a lot of on topic responses :/

Maybe you will find some gold nuggets in there. It's an impressive archeological expedition you have taken on. Reading all those books looks like the single lifetime achievement of a university professor.

Personally I believe that the best and most worthwhile literature have already surfaced by way of natural selection. But there just may be traces of genius that got lost, before they had chance to flower.

I have tried lesser known fantasist, like in the book Discoveries In Fantasy, and while they have some good elements, often they don't hold together in artistic integrity and wisdom like the work of the better known masters. And I have also plowed through a lot of fantasy books (famous and not so famous) I didn't enjoy, before arriving at the writers I love today.

For me there is enough in Lovecraft's Supernatural Horror in Literature to pick from. I have yet much I want to read by Algernon Blackwood and M. R. James. I also want to explore more of modern weird writers, like
Ramsey Campbell (have only read his early Mythos tales, which I enjoyed), for comparison. And there are many classic non-weird works, like Sheakspeare, The Eddas, etc, to be read (but not read yet) for perspective. Also there are so many delicious stories of my favorite authors that I want to read over again! Time is limited, and some selective curbing is unfortunately necessary. I think it is wise to stay focused rather than spreading out on every path.


You may not like my response, but at least it is a response.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27 Dec 08 | 05:35AM by Knygatin.

The Eddas are "weird". And some of Sheakspeare too. Sorry!

The Edda is nice,beter then molk "folk" tales colections,which all fall flat on characters,etc.Also,to be fair,some of those are short stories.

And then ill do som work to find things in the Australian Gutenberg.A litle tip-if its not on internet archive,it wont be anywhere.Though you have to look through the archive and not just count on google search.

Also,I think you miss alot.Oliver Onions isnt mentioned by HPL at all, nor is W.C.Morrow,whos briliance he flatly missed.I stil need to get into Robert Hichens and Quiller-Couch.

But for the starters,try to look up "A strange goldfield" by Guy Boothby,which has pulp main characters,but they dont do anything and its actualy one of the most haunting tales ever writen.

And take H.H.Ewers for instance- "The Dead Jew" is a combination of Ewers and Onions,"From the diary of an orange tree" is a clear Onionsian story and "The end of John Hamilton Llewelyn" is wonderfully abysmal in being so like yet so unlike "The Crystal Lense" (I think thats the title).

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but it's quite worthwhile, I think: Weird Tales from Northern Seas.

I am afraid I cannot agree with the "natural selection" sentiment. Ralph Adams Cram's weird stories are first rate, yet far too little known. Also, as I have mentioned here before, Adrian Ross's novel The Hole of the Pit is one of the very finest horror novels, period, yet it took until the early '90's for it to be reprinted for the first and only time since its original 1914 publication. Sometimes, the cream simply does not rise, whatever the reason.

Kyberean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am afraid I cannot agree with the "natural
> selection" sentiment... Sometimes, the cream simply does not
> rise, whatever the reason.

A bit off-topic, but I saw this movie, The Mole People, which has been ridiculed and beaten down into oblivion by critics. In spite of some obvious 1950's macho action-adventure dialog, I found it poetic and absolutely beautiful in its fantasy elements. Especially the dressing and behaviour of the albino Sumerian people was appropriately weird and otherworldly. This film immediately led my thoughts to Merritt and CAS.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28 Dec 08 | 03:30AM by Knygatin.

Julian Roffman's horror film The Mask often makes me think of CAS's works, particularly the 3-D Mayan-like sequences.

David Kartas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> isnt mentioned by HPL at all, nor is W.C.Morrow,whos
> briliance he flatly missed.
>
> But for the starters,try to look up "A strange
> goldfield" by Guy Boothby,...



I have just read "A strange goldfield" by Guy Boothby. I am sorry, but I really didn't enjoy it. To me it is a very ordinary "haunted town" ghost story, and meagerly written. Incidentally I also finished Blackwood's "The Insanity of Jones", and there's just no comparison. The Boothby story shrinks into crumbling insignificance in the light of Blackwood's overwhelming masterpiece.

My god, I would even say that Blackwood is a greater master of the weird tale than both Lovecraft and C.A.Smith. Lovecraft and Smith are greater artists when it comes to form, the aesthetics of visuals, moods, and overall refined story-telling. But Blackwood seems more mature, with a purified clean style, and genuine consummate communication with the weird. Lovecraft and Smith stand in-between the time-period of the older writers, who were mystics and true believers, and the newer more material age of self-sufficing surface entertainment and conscious focus on purifying the aesthetics of form and style. They are in-between, with one foot in either world, making them very enjoyable reading.


I have also read W.C.Morrow's "His Unconquerable Enemy". Now this was entertaining reading! He is witty, intelligent, and has a knack for inventing an interesting situation. I guess this is what you call a 'conte cruel' story. Reminds of Smith, similar to The Dark Eidolon in sentiment. But when the mutilated servant is heading for the stairs, the ending of the story becomes a little too obvious.

I think both "A strange goldfield" and "His Unconquerable Enemy' are written in a matter of fact earthbound way. By men who merely document a train of events, without really understanding these events' implications in a larger cosmic sense. Morrow appears the most aware of the two though. They lack the higher wisdom and perspective on Life, of Smith's mastery for example. With Smith you are given more than just practical descriptive facts, he also meanwhile leads you on paths that give elevation of the soul and spirit.

I am glad I read these stories though, because set in perspective they let me appreciate the value of the mastery of writers like Blackwood, Lovecraft, and Smith, even more.

This is my honest opinion. But I still commend your efforts.

And although I believe it unlikely that some unknown Weird Master writers, of the above mentioned calibre, lie hidden in some dusty library, it would be exciting if. Between the Eddas and the modern weird masters almost a thousand years passed without much exciting in the field. Could that really be? Perhaps there are hidden literary treasures, attended to by monks in the catacombs of distant mountaintop abbeys.



Kyberean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Adrian Ross's novel The Hole of the Pit is one of the
> very finest horror novels,...

I was unable to find this online.

Unfortunately, The Hole of the Pit is not available online, to the best of my knowledge. It is in the public domain, however. I wish that someone would scan it and make it available on the Web.

As of now, the only place the novel can be found is in Ramsey Campbell's 1992 anthology Uncanny Banquet. I doubt that this book remains in print (and I don't think that it was ever even published in the U.S.), but it should be available through used booksellers at a reasonable price.

Martinus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jojo Lapin X Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 1. I repeat: It is not a book, it is a set of
> > original documents. Hence it has nothing to do
> > with the outrageous crimes allegedly
> perpetrated
> > by publishers such as Tartarus and the Ash-Tree
> > Press; at the very least it is a different
> > category of crime.
> >
> > 2. I very much doubt the items will actually
> sell
> > for $35,000.
>
> Maybe not. Currey has a 10% discount in effect, so
> the asking price is currently $31,500. Hey, you
> can get the two Mss. for "The Shunned House" for
> $90,000! ;-)

How securely held would these items be? Would they be kept in a safe on the premises? I'm just thinking how easy it would be to walk into one of these places with a sock on your head, shove a pistol in someone's face and walk out with a treasure trove of literature. After posting them on the net you could sell them on eBay or donate them to some library in another country. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 29 Dec 08 | 09:36AM by Justice.

Knygatin-It was more the scene where the man man was walking about a hole and the characters heard or thought they heard the noises of things diging in the pits.It was this vision,and that of a man working for endless nights amongst dead men what I meant.

OK, I see. You look and grab for fragments of vision, that may lie hidden in little known works.

Yes.Like "In a strange story" by Lytton.

But you realy should try "Subteranean Temples" by Loti-I can send it to you,if need be.

Also,am at # 4402 .

Great news that I forgot to mention!

I've just heard that certain well-known specialty horror publishing houses will be collaborating on a re-edition of the public domain novel The Hole of the Pit. Extensive editorial work in preparing the text, which involved the adding of a comma to a sentence on page 111, of course, now means that the presses in question own full copyright in the text, which can therefore never, ever, ever again be re-printed by anyone, under any circumstances.

The volume will be specially bound in basilisk hide covers with plutonium inlay. Each copy will be printed using vellum pages, and bindings will be hand-sewn by vestal virgins. For a mere $25,000 per copy, this is an absolute steal!

There will be a limited but generous print run of 3.5 copies, and a certain second-hand--uh, I mean antiquarian--bookseller has magnanimously agreed to handle any re-sales to collectors for a 500 % profit--a mere half of his usual percentage!

Don't miss this special offer, and God bless America, Adam Smith, and Sonny Bono for making it all possible!

Kyberean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great news that I forgot to mention!
>

Uhm, I was wondering.... if I write a critical introduction, doing a thorough psychoanalysis of the symbolic meaning in The Hole of the Pit, carefully dissecting the hidden thoughts and intents behind every fantastic element, with long extensive footnotes at the bottom of every page, thus proving the importance of this novel for us as human beings today... and how it can help solve our present World economic crisis... and environmental issues... Will I then get a piece of the "action" and become part copyright share owner? And will my name be printed on the cover, above Adrian Ross's own, and in larger, brighter letters? I really want to be famous! But if possible without taking the risk of creating something myself and opening my heart to others. Rather, as critic and analyzer. I really want to be famous!

p.s. I could even write a full biography of the author, dragging his naked carcass out into the sun for everyone to gloat over, revealing all juicy details of possible homosexuality and any other personal and family secrets the author would have preferred be untold.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30 Dec 08 | 08:34AM by Knygatin.

No.As far as I can tell,the PD text will remain PD no mater how many tims it will be reprinted from now on (or from the moment it entered the PD),so thats why you dont have to buy the 6th trilionth edition of Frankenstein,which is also on of THE most over rated books.Its good,yes,but its too over rated for its own good,resulting in other and more quality stuff not geting the room it would need,like Ewers,for instance.

Well that settles it, I am going to have to take some time over the holiday weekend to revisit "The Mask" in 3d. Maybe also the marvelous "Street of Crocodiles" by the Quay brothers (mentioned earlier as a Polish weird tale).

Kind of off topic,but oh well.

Gavin Callaghan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone have $35,000.00 dollars to spend?....

Still off-topic, but the same seller is now also offering 52 letters from Lovecraft to Frank Belknap Long. Only a measly $150,000! (The Lovecraft-Petaja letters appear to remain unsold, so you can get the whole package for just $185,000 plus $8 shipping if you live in the US. You could probably negotiate about the shipping charge, too.)

As a voluntary worker within a local bookshop (used and antiquary stock), I come across some very intriguing works from time to time that definitely fall into the genre of weird tales or strange stories. Two that have recently grabbed my attention is Dead Man's Diary (Coulson Kernahan, 1890) and a new publication from a small local publishing house featuring short stories by Hanns Heinz Ewers.

(John) Coulson Kerhanan was a poet, novelist and man of letters. He was a friend of many contemporary UK poets and wrote several memoirs thereof - notably Kipling and Swinburne. During the period 1890 - 1910, he wrote several weird tales novels that sold rather well at the time. He was a friend and correspondent of Lt Wiliam Hope Hodgson and supported him throughout the latter's many years of being rejected for publication. Dead Man's Diary was his first publication (anonymous) and purports to be a narrative of what happened to him during a prolonged outer-body near-death experience when he was believed to be dead. I've only read bits of it and it's very much in the Poe tradition.

Hanns Heinz Ewers was a very strange man who wrote very strange tales. There's a recent forum thread on him on Eldritch Dark for those who want to know more. His stories have been unavailable for many years and many have never been translated into English. Fortunately for those of us who are a sucker for weird tales, a local publishing house, Side Real Press (www.siderealpress.co.uk) has recently published a selection of his stories, several of which appear in English for the first time. It's one of those limited edition hardcover pressings that is expensive, but, nevertheless, a beautiful thing. I'll put a review together when I've had a chance to read it.

I think I heard something about a new limited edition Hanns Heinz Ewers collection. Does anyone know anything about it?

From Side Real Press [www.siderealpress.co.uk] (which plans 4 volumes devoted to Ewers):

Hanns Heinz Ewers 'Nachtmahr - Strange Tales' (2009)

ISBN: 798-0-9542953-4-9
350 numbered copies (with free extras only available via this website)
Cost worldwide is £30.00 incl surface postage- please add £5.00 for airmail- this is a heavy book at 349pp.

We are very pleased to announce that, in conjunction with the H.H.E. estate, a new volume of stories, including some newly translated works is now available, together with Ewers essay/paean to Edgar Allan Poe (first published in English in 1917).

Contents:

* Introduction by J. N. Hirschhorn-Smith
* ‘Carnival In Cadiz’*
* ‘The Dead Jew’*
* ‘John Hamilton Llewellyn's End’
* ‘Gentlemen of the Bar’*
* ‘The Tophar Bride’*
* ‘The Typhoid Mary’*
* ‘The Spider’
* ‘Fairyland’
* ’From The Diary Of An Orange Tree’
* ‘The Death of Baron Jesus Maria von Friedel’*
* ‘Mamoloi'
* Edgar Allan Poe

*=newly translated.


Jim

I only have Kernahan' "A book of strange sins" . Anyway, am just reading something interesting, called "The republic of the Southern cross and other stories(tales, I dunno)" by Valery Brussof . The last two in the book, "Eluli, son of Eluli", but especialy " In the tower" were very nice, the later reminescent of Borges and even early Lovecraft (aka "Polaris") .

Also, Jim, could you maybe not spam that message everywhere ? I know you want to advertise it, but especialy for such a limited run, you could write individualy, instead of just copy pasting the same message into a newly generated account created wherever and whenever the name Ewers is utered .

There has been much talk of typographical errors in Night Shade Books. In my Mysteries of Time And Spirit there are frequent symbols in the text that look like backward "P"s with the loop filled in with black. Do the Hodgson books from Night Shade Books also have typographical errors?

The poster Jojo Lapin X mentioned over at the Jack Vance message board that he got silver on his hands when handling these Hodgson books. Has anyone else had problems with this?

I also wonder about The Dream of X. Reviewers have said that this novel actually retains the atmosphere and essence of The Night Land while being much easier to read. What do you think?

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There has been much talk of typographical errors
> in Night Shade Books. In my Mysteries of Time And
> Spirit there are frequent symbols in the text that
> look like backward "P"s with the loop filled in
> with black. Do the Hodgson books from Night Shade
> Books also have typographical errors?

What you are referring to is the "pilcrow", or paragraph sign (¶). I could be mistaken (not having seen the postcards in question, which is where these appear), but I took it to be simply reproducing in text the symbol as used by HPL on the cards themselves. Given that he tended to fill up postcards to the point carriers would charge full letter rates, he'd most likely have wanted to save space, hence would use the pilcrow to indicate a new paragraph rather than leave the white space required to end a line short and begin the next with an indentation.

As I said, I may be mistaken, but this was my assumption.

>
> The poster Jojo Lapin X mentioned over at the Jack
> Vance message board that he got silver on his
> hands when handling these Hodgson books. Has
> anyone else had problems with this?

I've not had any trouble with the Hodgson books in this respect, though I do note some textual problems (lack of indentation with new paragraph and the like -- see, for instance, "The Voice in the Night".

>
> I also wonder about The Dream of X. Reviewers have
> said that this novel actually retains the
> atmosphere and essence of The Night Land while
> being much easier to read. What do you think?

I've not yet had a chance to read this one -- haven't yet received my copy from Night Shade, nor have I seen any earlier edition, despite various attempts through interlibrary loan....

jdworth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Knygatin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There has been much talk of typographical
> errors
> > in Night Shade Books. In my Mysteries of Time
> And
> > Spirit there are frequent symbols in the text
> that
> > look like backward "P"s with the loop filled in
> > with black. Do the Hodgson books from Night
> Shade
> > Books also have typographical errors?
>
> What you are referring to is the "pilcrow", or
> paragraph sign (¶). I could be mistaken (not
> having seen the postcards in question, which is
> where these appear), but I took it to be simply
> reproducing in text the symbol as used by HPL on
> the cards themselves. Given that he tended to fill
> up postcards to the point carriers would charge
> full letter rates, he'd most likely have wanted to
> save space, hence would use the pilcrow to
> indicate a new paragraph rather than leave the
> white space required to end a line short and begin
> the next with an indentation.
>
> As I said, I may be mistaken, but this was my
> assumption.

You are absolutely correct -- I have seen photographs of HPL's postcards and there are plenty of these signs on them.

Which is Hodgson's quintessential work? If you must pick only one.

The House on the Borderland.

Kyberean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The House on the Borderland.

I was kind of hoping you would say The Night Land. I think The House on the Borderland may be his most well-written work, but it didn't leave me all that excited. I liked the beginning best, and was also impressed by the visionary part with the ending of the Solar system. I will re-read it.

My favorite so far is The Boats of the Glenn Carrig. Its horrors are very intensely manifested and perceived.

I haven't gotten through The Night Land. But I have just purchased the Night Shade edition, so I intend to. The first chapters I read earlier, and even though it was slow reading, the vision and its details were so unique and obsessive that it really grabbed hold of me. It seems to me that both Lovecraft and CAS were overall more impressed, or moved, by this piece than by The House on the Borderland.

Here is a discarded draft from Jack Vance's Suldrun's Garden, first part in his Lyonesse trilogy. Neither the text nor the nymph made it into the book:



The following morning he came to a wide slow river, which he crossed, dry-shod, on magic feathers. In the shallows, among the reeds stood a nymph staring down at the ripples which left her parted knees. Absorbed in her thoughts she failed to see Shimrod, and he watched her for several minutes. Her hair was sleek and lank, greenish-yellow; her ears were very small and lacked lobes; their substance seemed fine as shell. She reached her hand to touch the water and Shimrod saw that her nails were filmy, like insect wings and she seemed to lack thumbs. Slowly she turned; her breasts were tipped with small green nipples and a sparse blue-green down, like moss, covered her pubic area. She became aware of Shimrod; her mouth opened into a shocked round orifice. She sank into the water until mouth and nose were submerged and her green-yellow hair floated. For ten seconds she stared at Shimrod, in mingled wonder and alarm, then submerged her head and was gone.

Somberly Shimrod went his way. The nymph’s face had been blank, almost vacuous, like the face of a fish, or so it seemed at first glance, but there had also been the stir of thoughts and emotions incommensurable to his own, as befitted the circumstances.



What do you think? Similar to CAS?

The Night Land contains absolutely fascinating and extraordinary visions, but it is too long, diffuse, ineptly written, and marred by obnoxious romance to qualify as Hodgson's best and most quintessential work, in my opinion.

The House on the Borderland, by contrast, is much better written, and its cosmic visions are much more powerful, to me. I well remember my first reading of the book years ago, while on a camping holiday on the Ile d'Yeu, and feeling as if in a daze for days after reading it. Rarely has a book made such a powerful impression on me. It left me, in Hemingway's words, "as empty, transformed, and melancholy as all high feelings do". Few literary works embody such cosmic sweep and vision, and offer such a salutary reminder of the littleness of humanity, of its thoughts, its aspirations, and its very lives within the cosmic scale.

As for others' preferences, CAS seems to have been more intrigued by The Night Land, but Lovecraft's remarks in Supernatural Horror in Literature indicate clearly to me that he thought The House on the Borderland to be the better book.

Kyberean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The House on the Borderland... I well remember my first
> reading of the book years ago, while on a camping
> holiday on the Ile d'Yeu, and feeling as if in a
> daze for days after reading it. Rarely has a book
> made such a powerful impression on me. It left me,
> in Hemingway's words, "as empty, transformed, and
> melancholy as all high feelings do".

Well, that is just wonderful. Just wonderful.
I think that how well one appreciates a work, and ability to understand and capture its subject and subtleties, depends to a large extent on the amount and range of pre-knowledge one has of things that relate to it. I was quite young when I read it, and may experience it completely different today.



> Lovecraft's
> remarks in Supernatural Horror in Literature
> indicate clearly to me that he thought The House
> on the Borderland to be the better book.

He did write "But for a few touches of commonplace sentimentality this book would be a classic of the first water." So he didn't think The House on the Borderland was quite a classic of the first water.

And he spent twice as much text for The Night Land. And wrote "... one of the most potent pieces of macabre imagination ever written... there is a sense of cosmic alienage, breathless mystery, and terrified expectancy unrivalled in the whole range of literature."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24 May 09 | 12:45PM by Knygatin.

Lovecraft was clearly fond of both books, but I think that he found Borderland to be a better work of finished art, for whatever that is worth. "Perhaps the greatest of all Mr. Hodgson's work" are the prefatory remarks to his discussion of Borderland.

By the way, I have always found the misleading, incomplete quotation of Lovecraft by publishers of Borderland to be simultaneously amusing and annoying. Publishers seldom fail to quote the "classic of the first water" part of Lovecraft's statement, but they always manage to omit the "but for a few touches of commonplace sentimentality" portion.

Kyberean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By the way, I have always found the misleading,
> incomplete quotation of Lovecraft by publishers of
> Borderland to be simultaneously amusing and
> annoying. Publishers seldom fail to quote the
> "classic of the first water" part of Lovecraft's
> statement, but they always manage to omit the "but
> for a few touches of commonplace sentimentality"
> portion.

That proves how one can construct a lie from quotations.

I have received the Night Shade Night Land, and after having read all raving reviews, I am somewhat disappointed with the book design. I had expected really heavy boards, with deep relief artwork, and a thick layer of silver. Like old silver coin from a pirates' hoard. This is more economic. The spine is still very good and sturdy. I couldn't ask for a better cover artist. Hollander's exquisite work sets the right tone. He is a fine continuation of the classic Weird era and Arkham House artists. The interior design is nice, except for a few typo errors I discovered in the editor's introduction. I guess that's the price of growing big and handling too many projects at the same time.
No silver comes off the book.

All in all, the book has a nice grisly aesthetic, very fitting for the subject.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 3 Jun 09 | 02:51AM by Knygatin.

When it comes to book cover artwork, I'd much rather see classic paintings, such as Penguin used for its Lovecraft volumes, or photography, such as Hippocampus used for the collected poetry of CAS, than awful, kitschy, amateurish "artwork" of the Utpatel or Hollander variety. De gustibus....

The classic paintings for the Penguin Lovecraft volumes have no relevant relation to the stories.
Hollander's artwork for the Hogson Night Shade volumes is a collage from all the stories. In style it looks like an ancient medieval map.

Simplified artwork leaves more to ones own imagination. When it is really good it triggers the imagination.

I appreciate realistic paintings too, if their style and execution of the subject matter correspond to my taste and don't veer off too much from my personal imagination of the story.
I like the photographic cover Potter did for A Rendezvous in Averoigne.

Even if there is no direct relationship to the stories, the classic artworks are evocative, and, I think, stimulate the imagination more than direct illustrations, by allowing one to create one's own associations. The same is true of photographs. "Simple" is fine, but Hollander and the Arkham House artists veer into the incompetent, for my taste.

Potter's cover for A Rendezvous in Averoigne is effective, but most of his other illustrations in that volume, I think, are awful. A friend of mine even went so far as to tear them out of the book!

At least the Hollander work for the Hodgson series, from what I have seen of it, is better than the covers for the CAS tales, although, in itself, that isn't saying much!

Kyberean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even if there is no direct relationship to the
> stories, the classic artworks are evocative, and,
> I think, stimulate the imagination more than
> direct illustrations, by allowing one to create
> one's own associations.

That is a valid point. Even if I still think pictorial cover-art depicting a situation should be related to the contents of the book.
Purely decorative covers can be good too, like with plantlife patterns. In older days they often did that, and in those times the book was a piece of artwork in itself, rather than just "frame" for a painting.
The most important thing is to set an appropriate mood.



I recently decided to buy some books with Poe (having only borrowed at the library when needed). The Penguin (same series as Lovecraft) cover for The House of Usher is quite effective I think. Perhaps not exactly beautiful with the thin solitary figure, but the overwhelming empty blackness captures the abyssmal terror of his stories, and the colours are Poesque. (I think the illustration is from The Masque of the Red Death.)
http://www.amazon.com/Fall-House-Usher-Other-Writings/dp/0141439815/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_1#

Excellent photographic cover for Narrative of Arthor Gordon Pym of Nantucket:
http://www.booksshouldbefree.com/images/big/Narrative-of-Arthur-Gordon-Py.jpg



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 4 Jun 09 | 06:21AM by Knygatin.

Quote:

The most important thing is to set an appropriate mood.

I most definitely agree! For instance, Dore's weird cosmic Grim Reaper on the cover of the third Lovecraft volume in the Penguin series sets the mood perfectly. The simple cover of the Lapis edition of Julien Gracq's Castle of Argol does so, as well.

Kyberean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The simple cover of the Lapis
> edition of Julien Gracq's Castle of Argol...


A very inviting cover.

I want to bind my own books for The House on the Borderland and The Ghost Pirates. And for a selection of hard to find Algernon Blackwood stories, to complement my collection. How is the quality of online texts generally? At [www.gutenberg.org] and [manybooks.net] for example? Misspellings and typograhical errors common? Or are the texts meticulous?

I cannot speak for the quality of the particular sites that you mention, although I do read texts on occason at Project Gutenberg. In general, though, I do not trust the quality of most online texts, myself. They are fine for reading online, but I would not invest money in printing and binding them--at least, not unless they appear to be properly scanned and in PDF format. I would avoid any HTML texts, if I were you.

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Excellent photographic cover for Narrative of
> Arthor Gordon Pym of Nantucket:
> [www.booksshouldbefree.com]
> ive-of-Arthur-Gordon-Py.jpg

Looked like a photograph in the picture. Having the book in my hands, it is actually a painting.

It is quite confusing how the internet and computor graphics can trick your mind, manipulating colors (and forms) in images, to look completely different from the actual thing.

Speaking of binding books, my copy of Smith's Classical Dictionary (1888) [nothing to do with Clark Ashton SMITH] is falling apart; I need to have it rebound.

I recently read through some books (Yeats's Golden Dawn, On the Nightmare, and Man Into Wolf) which had some fascinating lists of rare books in them. Yeats's Golden Dawn had a list of the contents of the Order of the Golden Dawn's hermetic library as of 1897. A lot of people like to make fun of the Golden Dawn, and William Butler Yeats' involvement with it, but the list there shows them to have been a very erudite organization. If I owned just 1/12th of the books in this list, I'd consider myself a very fancy boy, indeed.

On the Nightmare, by Freudian psychoanylist [sp?] Ernest Jones, is a seminal, essential work, absolutely necessary for understanding dreams and their role in society. Before reading this book, I had been satisfied to look askance at the findings/assertions of Freudian psychoanalysis; no more. The books listed here by Jones as sources are likewise a wish-list of arcane literature. Man Into Wolf, by renowned scholar Robert Eisler, is an equally erudite, if not as essential work, dealing with the role of sadism in the human unconscious and society. It is perhaps significant as perhaps the first work (that I know of) to use the phrase "serial killing" (1949).

I did not include all the books mentioned in the lists below, just the ones that seemed most interesting. I apologize in advance for any typing errors in the following lists; I'm not a good typist, ---plus a weird/latent dyslexia seems to have played its part.

Golden Dawn hermetic Library. West Kensington, London, 1897.

Abraham Eleazar. An ancient Alchymic work, Anonymous. Trans. By W. S. Hunter, from a german MSS. Frankfort, 1774.

Adams, W. D. Curiosities of Superstition. London, 1882.

Aesch-Metzareph, or Purifying Fire, from the Kabalah of Rosenroth, trans. By A Lover of the Philistines, 1714. London, 1894.

Agrippa, H. C. De Incertitudine et Vanitate Omnium Scientiarum. 1609.

Albertus Magnus, De Secretis Mulierum. 1625.

25 Alchemic Tracts in Latin, no date.

An Account of Some Experiments on Mercury, Silver & Gold, by J. Price. Oxford, 1782.

The Science of Spiritual and Material, by S.A. London, 1893.

Allegmeine und General Reformation, beneben der Fama Fraternitatis des Loblichen Ordens des Rosencreutzes, and other tracts. 1681.

Allen, E. H. A Manual of Cheirosophy. London, 1885.

Aratos, The Phainomena, or Heavenly Display. Trans. By Robert Brown, 1895.

Lectures on the Science of Celestial Philosophy by Zuriel. London, 1835.

Urania, Fate and Fortune. 1880, 1890.

Vade Mecum or a Complete System of Prgnostication from the Influenc eof the Stars, by Hermes. Leeds, 1851.

Avatars of Vishnu by T. H. Pattinson.

Bailly M, Histoire de l’Astronomie Ancienne Depuis son origine Jusqu’a l’establissement de l’ecole d’ Alexandria. Paris, 1775.

Bailly, M., Traite de l’Astronomie Indienne et Orientale, paris, 1787.

Bangi, T., Caelum Orientis et prisci Mundi, 1657.

Beausobre, M. de, Histoire Critique de Manichee et du Manicheisme, 2 vols. Amsterdam, 1734.

Becher, J. J., Tripus Hermeticus Fatidicus, 1689.

Beckius, Ephemerides Persarum, 1696.

Berkeley, Bishop, Treatise on the Nature of the Material Substance (and its relation to the Absolute.) London, 1878.

Bertrand, A., Du Magnetisme Animal en france. Paris, 1826.

Betham, Sir W., Etruscan Literature and Antiquities. 1862.

Blackwell, T., Letters Concerning Mythology. London, 1748.

Bonwick, james, irish Druids. 1894.

Bonwick, james, Pyramid Facts and Fancies, 1877.

Borrichius, J., Hermetis Egyptorium et Chemicorum Sapientia. 1674.

Bourguet, M., lettres Philosophiques sur la Formation des Sels et des Crystaux, Amsterdam, 1729.

Bunsen, C. J. Egypt’s Place in Universal History, V. I. London, 1867.

Burgoyne, T. H., Celestial Dynamics, a Course of Astro Metaphysical Study, private MSS.

Cagliostro, Nachricht von des Beruchtigten, Berlin, 1787.

Calmet, The Phantom World, trans. By H. Christmas, 2 vol., London, 1850.

Collectanea Hermetica, ed by Wm. W. Wescott.
I. Hermetic Arcanum, by Jean d’Espagnet,
II. The Divine Pymander of Hermes,
III. Hermetic Art by Philalthes,
IV. Aesch-Metzareph,
V. Somnium Scipionis of Cicero,
VI. Chaldean Oracles, Euphrates by Eugenius Philalethes,
VIII. Egyptian magic by S.S.D.D.

Chromopathy, or the Science of Healing Diseases by Colors, by J. P. Jha, madras, 1897.

Combachius, L., Sal Lumen et Spiritus Mundi Philosophici, ro The Dawning of the Day Discovered. London, 1657.

Comenius, J. A., The Rosecrucians Divine Light, London, 1651.

The Conjurers Magazine, V. I & II, 1791-1793.

Egyptian Dictionary, by T. Young. London, 1831.

Tattam, H., Grammar of the Egyptian language, London, 1830.

MacDonald, W. B., Sketch of a Coptic Grammar, 1856.

A new Guide to the Srudy of Coptic, R. C. Fisher.

Crata Repoa, Oder Einweilhungen in der Alten Geheimen Gesallschaft de Egyptischen Priester, 1785.

Crosset de la Haumerie, M., Les Secrets les Plus Caches de la Philosophie des Anciens Decouverts et Expliques, Paris, 1762.

Dale, A Va, De Oraculis, Amsterdam, 1700.

Dee, Dr. J. A True Relation of What Passed Between Dr. Dee and Some Spirits, London, 1659.

Deee, Dr. John, The Private Diary of, London, 1842.

De Freval, The History fo the Heavens, London, 1740.

Deleuze, J. P. F., Pratical Instruction in Animal Magnetism, London, 1843.

Demonologia, ro Natural Knowledge Revealed, by J. S. F. London, 1831.

Denon, V., Voyages Dans le Basse et la Haute Egypte,2 vols., London, 1807.

Despange, J., Shibboleth ou Reformation de Quelques Passages de la Bible, Geneva, 1671.

D’Espagnet, J., Enchyridion Physicae restitutoe, or the Summary of Physics recovered, London, 1651.

D’Espagnet J. The Hermetic Arcanum of penes nos unda Tag. London, 1893.

Delphi Phoenicizantes, ed. By Dickinson. Oxford, 1655.

Dictionnaire Hermetique, Contenant l’explication des termes, Paris, 1695.

Catalog of Egyptian Antiquities, Museum of Hartwell House, 1858.

Egypt and Nubia by J. St. John, London 1845.

Ecerpta Hieroglyphics, by Burton, J., London, 1828.

Congres Provincial des Orientales Fancais, paris, 1878.

De Symbolica Egyptorium Sapienta Symbola, and the Symbolicus of Polyhistor, 1631.

Essay on Young and Champollion’s Syustem of Hieroglyphics, by H. Salt, London, 1825.

Fama Fraternitatis, 1681.

Fantasmagoriana ou Recueil d’Histories d’Apparitions des Spectres, revenans, Fantomes, 2 vols., Paris, 1812.

Dr. Faust, Bucherschatz, Stuttgart, 1851.

Fethius, E. Antiquit Homericarum, 1743.

A new Guide to Coptic, Risher, R. C.

The Hieroglyphic Figures of 1624, Flamel, N.

La Kabbale on la Philosophie Religieuse des Hebreux, Paris, 1843.

The Magical and Masonic Mirror, London, 1858.

Fripp, E. I. The Composition of the Book of Genesis. 1892.

Gaffarel, M. I. , Curiousitez Inouyes Sur la Sculpture Talismanique des Persans, Rouen, 1631.

Gaffarel, M. I., Des Talismans, De l’Ungent des Armes, Paris, 1636.

Geber, rex Abram, His Treatesis on Alchemy, in latin. 1682.

Ginsburg, C. D., The Kabbalah: Its Doctrines, Development and Literature, London, 1865.

Gould, R. F., History fo Freemasonry, London, 1886.

Haen, Ant de, De Magia Liber, 1775.

Hammer, J., Ancient Alphabets, from the Arabic of Ahmad bin Washih, 1806.

Harris, A. C., Hieroglyphical Standards, London.

Hartmann, J., In the Pronaos of the Temple of Wisdom, London, 1890.

Havilland, Saumarez de, The Mystic Serpent, 1891.

Hebrew, Latin and English Dictionary, by J. S. Frey, London, 1815.

Hebraicum Lexicon ex Ejus Lexico Heptaglotto, by E. Castelli, 1790.

Helmont, F. M. B., Alphabet I vere Naturalis Hebraici Brevissima, 1657.

Herbert, The Hon. G., Nimrod, A Discourse on Certain Passages of History and Fable, London, 1828.

Heucher, M. J. H., Magic Plants, 1886.

Hitchcock, T., Remarks Upon Alchemy and the Alchemists, N. Y., 1865.

The Hieroglyphics of Horapollo Nilous, by A. T. Cory, 1811.

Hoskins, G. A., Visit to the Great oasis of the Libyan Desert, London, 1837.

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Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 14 Jun 09 | 05:47PM by Gavin Callaghan.

I would invert your order, as I find Eisler's work to be far more interesting than Jones's, but it's good to see them both here. I think that arcana of the weird in any form are very appropriate to a CAS forum, myself.

As an addendum, I would recommend Ornella Volta's study of the vampire. It lists and cites a plethora of oddities. Her book is out of print, but the cheap American paperbound edition is not hard to find. This cheap edition, however, omits the superabundant illustrations of the original French-language edition published by Pauvert, which makes it a travesty, but at least the text and its innumerable footnotes (in that regard, the book is very similar to Man into Wolf) are intact.

That's interesting. Man Into Wolf, at least, has served to "save" HP Lovecraft's works in my eyes, since Eisler's clear association of the nazis with such things as beastiality, animality, and werewolves (the post-WWII nazi underground called themselves "Werewolves"; Hitler called himself "Herr Wolf", etc.) clearly serves to differentiate nazi philosophy from HPL's philosophy, at least in this respect- HPL's philosophy clearly being anti-bestial, anti-animalistic/cannibalistic/Bacchanalian, and anti-Lycanthropic in complexion. Therefore, although HPL's philosophy would seem to parallel that of the nazis in several respects, at least in this aspect HPL could be termed a conservator of civilization.

On Satanist Boyd Rice's website (a few years ago, anyway), Rice likewise included Man Into Wolf in his list of "essential reading." One can only imagine how appalled Robert Eisler himself would have been at this, given the Neo-nazi aspects of so much of Satanism; Satanists, of course, just like the nazis, regarding the "Werewolf" as a power/aspect of man to be enjoyed/emulated. (Satanist Nicholas Schreck's band, "Radio Werewolf", for example, takes its name from the "final nazi broadcast in Germany at the end of WWII", etc.) With regard to the growing forces of irrationalism in the world, Eisler's book is a pertinent as ever.

You'll like Volta's obscure book on vampires, I think. Try to get the French edition, if you read that language. It is akin to Eisler's work, in that each offers an original and unconventional approach to what would seem to be a well-worn area, and each is larded with obscure references.

My impression is that the Nazis identified the lycanthrope archetype with certain primal, pagan, irrational forces, which indeed is the opposite of Lovecraft, who, after all, dreamt of transforming himself into a sort of sentient cosmic gas! Such ethereality is very much at the antipodes of the lycanthrope archetype, I agree.

As for the Lovecraft/NS parallels, I think that, as Joshi's biography shows, HPL's sympathy was primarily with the fascists' economic program. I don't want to revive political debates, however, lol, so I'll leave the matter at that!

I would add in passing that some of CAS's weakest tales involve such "conventional" figures as the werewolf.

There are almost as many "Satanisms" as there are representations and interpretations of Satan, himself, so I'd be wary of generalizing. That said, the Church of Satan certainly draws some inspiration from the lycanthrope archetype. Anton LaVey even wrote a little ritual for turning oneself into a werewolf. His organization, however, is mere "commercial Satanism", and, as calonlan has indicated, CAS had the good sense to see through the Church of Satan's founder when the two of them met. That organization certainly needn't be taken seriously.

By the way, Schreck and Rice have both long since left Satanism proper behind, haven't they? As an aside, I once met Rice at a party. He was very pleasant, unpretentious, and an interesting conversationalist; there was nothing bloodthirsty or overtly fascistic about him in person, at any rate!

Quote:

With regard to the growing forces of irrationalism in the world, Eisler's book is a pertinent as ever.

Homo homini lupus, an idea that is almost as old as Western civilization, itself.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 16 Jun 09 | 08:54AM by Kyberean.

Kyberean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As for the Lovecraft/NS parallels, I think that,
> as Joshi's biography shows, HPL's sympathy was
> primarily with the fascists' economic program.

Actually, Joshi’s biography says quite the opposite. Indeed, according to Joshi, HPL’s support/admiration for the nazis and Hitler not purely “economic,” but also cultural -Lovecraft arguing that:

“Hitler is right to suppress Jewish influence on German culture, since ‘no settled & homogenous nation ought a) to admit enough of a decidedly alien race-stock to bring about an actual alteration in the dominant ethnic composition, or b) tolerate the dilution of the culture-stream with emotional & intellectual elements alien to the original cultural impulse.” (Joshi, HPL: A Life, p. 589)

(One wonders what effect HPL’s irrational eugenics-policies would have had if let loose on his beloved ancient world: no mixing of Etruscan, Umbrian, Alpine, Trojan, and Latin strains to create the ancient Romans; no combination of Dorian, Ionian, Pelasgian, Minoan, and Attican strains to create the ancient Greeks; no intermixing of Sumerian, Chaldean, Elamite, and Akkadian cultures to create ancient Mesopotamia, etc., etc., etc………)

Joshi concludes his discussion by citing Harry Probst's story (quoted earlier by de Camp) of Lovecraft being “‘horrified’” at a German-émigré’s tale of the crimes being perpetrated on innocent citizens by the nazi regime -Joshi suggesting, with very little conviction, that “it is conceivable that Lovecraft” eventually realized “that he had been wrong [about Hitler]. It would be a comforting thought.” (590) Clearly, Joshi is less than certain about either the purely economic basis for, or the eventual diminution of, Lovecraft’s admiration for nazism.

Ultimately, however, whether HPL was once “a supporter of Hitler” is completely immaterial. The real question is: what does a full analysis of the polemical intent of HPL’s larger fictional and written corpus reveal? And what this analysis reveals -at least in my own reading of it- is an attitude/worldview which very nearly parallels the nazis in most respects. Anti-Semitism; militarism; eugenics; segregation; anti-“miscegenation” laws, concentration camps, lynching -Lovecraft supported all of these things, either implicitly and explicitly, in his stories, essays, and letters.

HPL’s novella “The Shadow Over Innsmouth”, for example, in which Captain Marsh forces the townspeople “to entertain guests” sexually (or, as HPL later puts it, give them “what they hankered after“) -forcing them to racially-intermix with the Deep Ones- reads like a paranoid sexual apocalypse from the imagination of a David Duke, or from the racial fulminations of the KKK. It is striking, too, that the only symbol which is capable of stopping the Deep Ones, according to HPL, is the sign of the Old Ones, which HPL, tellingly, describes as looking “like what ye call a swastika nowadays.”

The only “comforting thought” (as Joshi puts it) which I have been able to find -as I have said before- is that HPL’s attitude toward the beastial/Lycathropic was diametrically opposed to that of the nazis.

> There are almost as many "Satanisms" as there are
> representations and interpretations of Satan,
> himself, so I'd be wary of generalizing.

As Eisler’s work reveals, there are certain commonalities between the Lycanthropic myth and the nazis’ behavior/belief systems. And so it is natural that Satanism, with its similarly Lycanthropic ideals (Lavey’s interest in things like The Tierdrama, etc., in which men dress as animals and walk "on all fours", in obvious recapitulation of some ancient, cannibalistic, Bacchanalian rite), should likewise (and as Eisler would perhaps expect) adopt some aspects of nazism.

> By the way, Schreck and Rice have both long since
> left Satanism proper behind, haven't they?

Whatever their current projects or affiliations, I don’t know that either Mr. Rice or Mr. Schreck have explicitly or openly renounced their past fascist or satanic affiliations.

It does seem a bit contradictory for Kyberean to state as he does, on the one hand, that “Satanists are not all the same”, and then to dispute, on the other hand, whether Rice and Schreck are correctly termed “Satanists”, since neither are explicitly associated with the original church founded by Lavey. If Satanism is, as Kyberean states, a movement with a wide range of beliefs, then surely it is correct to refer to both Rice and Schreck as Satanists if neither have given any indications of outright disassociation from their past ideas.

> Homo homini lupus, an idea that is almost as old
> as Western civilization, itself.

Civilization, however, progresses in stages. As Eisler reveals in his book, the pagan Bacchanalian rite was basically a ceremonial recapitulation of earlier, cannibalistic rites engaged in by primitive, tribal human societies. It was Christian civilization which initially -in recapitulation of earlier Judaic prohibitions on infanticide- made the cannibal a “wolf” or “outlaw”, outside the normal bounds of society. Christianity, however, through its basic contradictions, enabled the structural perpetuation of its own criminal mindset, as revealed by its repeated bouts of hysteria involving scientists, heretics, and witches.

It was only with the rise of Capitalism -enabled, it is true, by the growth of Christianity- that a true picture of both the individual and civilization itself was finally free to develop -a civilization in which free-exchange and free-expression are essential, and in which predatory force has no place. Surely the idea that "Man is wolf to Man" can have no greater opposition, or antidote, than this. This new idea of individualism and civilization, of course, has been threatened numerous times, most notably by the various irrationalist movements of the 20th century, and by Islamo-fascism and neo-tribalism/anti-industrialism today.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 17 Jun 09 | 04:48PM by Gavin Callaghan.

Hmm, my (to me, at least) rather anodyne comments seem to have been mistaken for the dropping of a gauntlet, which is unfortunate. I'll go one more round, then, on principle.

Quote:

Actually, Joshi’s biography says quite the opposite. Indeed, according to Joshi, HPL’s support/admiration for the nazis and Hitler not purely “economic”

I did not write that Lovecraft's interest was "purely" economic. I wrote that it was primarily economic. I don't deny that Lovecraft, especially during the '20's, sympathized with Fascist racial views, but I do deny that his interest in Fascism can be reduced to the aspects of racial and cultural homogeneity.

At a minimum, Lovecraft's views are, as usual, far more nuanced and sophisticated than Gavin allows him credit, and Joshi's biography reveals that fact. Gavin seems to prefer Sprague de Camp's Lovecraft, whereas I think that Joshi gives us a far more balanced and accurate portrayal of the man. As I mentioned, however, I have no desire or intention to resurrect political discussions in this forum, so I shall leave the matter at that.

Quote:

It does seem a bit contradictory for Kyberean to state as he does, on the one hand, that “Satanists are not all the same”, and then to dispute, on the other hand, whether Rice and Schreck are correctly termed “Satanists”, since neither are explicitly associated with the original church founded by Lavey. If Satanism is, as Kyberean states, a movement with a wide range of beliefs, then surely it is correct to refer to both Rice and Schreck as Satanists if neither have given any indications of outright disassociation from their past ideas

There nothing the slightest bit contradictory about it. I do not say that these individuals are no longer Satanists simply because they have ceased to be affiliated with LaVey's little circus. I state this fact simply because neither figure Gavin mentions has, to the best of my knowledge, explicitly advocated or had anything to do with Satanism in any form for many years, now.

For instance, Boyd Rice has mentioned in interviews that he no longer has any active involvement with Satanism, and that he accepted his priesthood in LaVey's church more out of friendship with LaVey than for any other reason. When last I checked, Rice was into some sort of neo-Royalist business, exploring Merovingian dynasties, conspiracies, and the like, and his Web site had nothing to do with Satanism. His recent activities seem more along the lines of something one might find in The Da Vinci Code than in anything out of Huysmans.

Likewise, Schreck is not involved with any Satanic organization of which I am aware. His wife (Anton LaVey's daughter) has explicitly renounced her father, and the couple's last book, I believe, was about Tantric sex and magic, a subject on which they offer workshops. Unless, like most Christians, one finds anything outside of Christianity to be automatically "Satanic", it is hard to fit the activities and interests that I described under a diabolical rubric.

It is also not my duty to prove a negative. Gavin's logic is along the lines of, "X used to love to play golf. I know nothing of X's activities today, but if he used to play golf, then, unless he has explicitly renounced golf, he must still be a golfer". Not so. X may have quietly given up golf and moved on to other interests without making any great fanfare about the matter.

If, on the other hand, there is actual evidence that these individuals are currently practicing Satanism in any form, then let's see it. In the meantime, it is illogical to infer that, because one held a given belief or perspective five, ten, or more years ago, then one necessarily holds the same beliefs today.

It is likewise illogical to assume that, simply because the Nazis and certain--by no means all--Satanists have an interest in lycanthropy, they necessarily have any other affinities, still less that the two may be equated. It's rather like saying that all Stalinists and all Republicans both enjoy tennis, therefore, all Republicans must be Stalinists.

As for the widely differing varieties and forms that contemporary Satanism may take, Gavin simply needs to educate himself better on the subject. There is, for instance, a group of Satanists called the Satanic Reds who are explicitly anti-Nazi, and perhaps even to the Left politically of Gavin! ;-)

As for civilization, the phrase homo homini lupus, and the like: The phrase is from Asinaria ("lupus est homo homini') by Titus Maccius Plautus (c. 254–184 BCE). It predates both the era of state Christianity in Rome and modern capitalism. My point was simply that both the phrase and the concept are ancient, and that the modern world is as much an embodiment of it as the ancient world. I suspect that here, Gavin and I are merely misunderstanding one another. If Gavin is suggesting, however, that our post-Christian, capitalist society represents some profound and objective improvement over ancient times, in an abstract or quantifiable sense, then pardon my belly-laugh.

Overall, this is not an important subject, and it is off-topic for the forum, so, as I mentioned, this is the last round, for me. I won't read or reply further to this sub-topic.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 17 Jun 09 | 07:30PM by Kyberean.

Kyberean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is also not my duty to prove a negative.
> Gavin's logic is along the lines of, "X used to
> love to play golf. I know nothing of X's
> activities today, but if he used to play golf,
> then, unless he has explicitly renounced golf, he
> must still be a golfer". Not so. X may have
> quietly given up golf and moved on to other
> interests without making any great fanfare about
> the matter.

If after many years, Tiger Woods were to suddenly give up the game of golf, would it, or would it not, still be proper to refer to Mr. Woods as a “golfer”? “Former golfer” would hardly seem appropriate, when one thinks of his contributions to the game.

By the same token, one can hardly say I am remiss to refer to as “satanists” two men who were among the chief architects of Satanism in the 1980’s. And if Kyberean does not realize the extent of their former involvement in this movement, then it is Kyberean, and not I, who “needs to educate himself better on the subject.”

> Hmm, my (to me, at least) rather anodyne comments
> seem to have been mistaken for the dropping of a
> gauntlet, which is unfortunate.

It is Kyberean who is mistaken. I was simply responding to his comments.

> There is, for instance, a group of Satanists
> called the Satanic Reds who are explicitly
> anti-Nazi,

No doubt there are many obscure Satanic sects of which most are unaware. This does little to affect the main thrust of the Satanic movement, and its underlying texts by LaVey (which are still in print, to the tune of millions of copies.) No doubt some sects of Christianity likewise believe that Jesus was a space-alien; yet it would hardly be appropriate to assume this to be a characteristic of the Christian religion as a whole.

> then pardon my
> belly-laugh.

I wonder if Boyd Rice was able to make him laugh as easily.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19 Jun 09 | 04:18PM by Gavin Callaghan.

Please be forewarned that the videos in the links below are disturbing, but they serve to reinforce the connections I was making between Satanism, the Werewolf, Boyd Rice, Nicholas Schreck, and nazism.

In the 1990's -after breaking with Lavey's Church of Satan- Schreck was a member of Michael Aquino's Temple of Set (http://www.xeper.org/), a more philosophically-oriented sect of Lavey's Church of Satan (Set=Satan). More recently, Schreck left the Temple of Set to found a new, but still closely-related Satanic sect (significantly, in Germany), called The Storm: Vanguard of the International Sethian Movement. Their website went down only a few years ago, in 2006 or so (perhaps because the German authorities realized the probable Neo-nazi sympathies/aims of the group.)

At any rate, for Kyberean to characterize Schreck's more recent work on "Tantric sex and magic" as anything other than Satanic (i.e., as anything other than a direct outgrowth and continuation of his lifelong work with the Satanic, the lycanthropic, and Lavey) is disingenuous in the extreme, and demonstrates quite clearly Kyberean's failure to recognize the intrinsic connections between Lavey's Satanism, and what Robert Eisler characterized as the sexual/algolagnic aspects of the lycanthropic Bacchanalia.

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

"Our aim is to awaken the WOLF in man..." -Nicholas Schreck



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 20 Jun 09 | 08:03PM by Gavin Callaghan.

I said I was going to leave this part of the thread alone--and I will, after this--but I can't resist asking the following question:

Considering that he represents himself as one who loves humanity, and who despises others whom he perceives as taking a violent approach to human relations, why does Gavin promptly go into "rabid attack dog mode" at the slightest and mildest signs of disagreement? All I did was ask whether Schreck and Rice are still considered representatives of Satanism, and look at the response that resulted!

Here are a couple of other questions that are worth asking, while I am at it:

--Does Gavin have any interest whatsoever in the work of Clark Ashton Smith, the subject of this Web site and this forum? If so, then does he ever intend to demonstrate that interest by posting about Ashton Smith?

--Does Gavin's (unhealthy, in my view) obsession with Lovecraft extend to an appreciation of his actual writings? In other words, does he actually like Lovecraft's work on some level as fiction? Or is Lovecraft some sort of authority-figure or father-figure (since Gavin recently expressed an admiration for Freudian psychology, the frame of reference seems to fit) whom he feels compelled in an Oedipal fit to overthrow? Or, worse still, is Lovecraft's work simply grist for Gavin's particular ambitions as a literary critic?

I am now officially done with this part of the thread. I'd be highly surprised if anyone else here were paying attention to it, and I really hate to give it a bump, but, as I mentioned, the above questions are worth asking.

Kyberean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Considering that he represents himself as one who
> loves humanity, and who despises others whom he
> perceives as taking a violent approach to human
> relations,

Is Kyberean using the following equation:
dislike for nazism=love for all humanity? If so, I don't accept his arithmetic, any more than I accept the "off topic" criticism. It's natural for conversations to diverge and develop along various unexpected lines and tangents. And its not as if I were offering rogaine supplements or viagra pills for sale.

> All I did was ask whether
> Schreck and Rice are still considered
> representatives of Satanism, and look at the
> response that resulted!

The issue was not merely that, but also a larger question, regarding the overall complexion of the modern-day Satanic movement itself.

> --Does Gavin have any interest whatsoever in the
> work of Clark Ashton Smith, the subject of this
> Web site and this forum?

In my opinion, CAS is a far greater writer than HPL, in terms of pure literature. It makes me cringe when I read Lovecraftian scholarship, and see people write of HPL's supposed use of themes by Hawthorne or Melville- when in truth HPL's closest literary influences are from the Munsey pulps he idolized in the early 1900's, and writers like Edgar Rice Burroughs, Charles B. Stilson, Garrett P. Serviss, George Allan England, and J. U. Giesy.

At the same time, I think that HPL is far better at atmospheric effects than CAS; its debatable to what degree these atmospheric effects are enjoyable apart from HPL's underlying aristocratic/White-supremacist ideology. As for whether CAS has any sort of subtext, aside from his pro-pagan/Rabelaisian enjoyment of life, women, wine, and song, I don't know. Perhaps I'll turn my "eye of Sauron" there next.

We were having some talk about book covers. Artwork aside, I think the Penguin Classics are very nice paperbacks. They have a quality of paper and lettering that makes for pleasant reading, and the these books easily fold open without breaking of spine or reading creases appearing. Handy.

Howard's poetry collection Night Images from Morning Star Press. Now THAT'S an incredible printing!! Heavy boards for covers with thick silver relief inlay, and rich selected paper inside. (The much lauded Night Shade Books volumes of Hodgson look like pulp by comparison.) The folks at Morning Star Press clearly had a genuine love affair with book binding, commercial interests being a side issue.

What are good or passable editions of The House On the Borderland and The Ghost Pirates (aside from the Night Shade collections)? I received a hard cover copy from Wildside Press, but the lettering is quite large, as if for people with poor eyesight; I can't decide if I like it or not, whether it leads me into the book even better, or if it's a distraction. I suppose it takes some getting used to. What do you think of large lettering?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 4 Jul 09 | 04:28AM by Knygatin.

I am sending back the large print book. :/

I can't reconcile with it.

I said before that I would make my own books for the above two Hodgson titles, but the online texts require editing from start to finish, so I don't find it worthwhile.

In going over the previous post, I was rather struck by the following:

Gavin Callaghan Wrote:

> It makes me cringe when I read Lovecraftian scholarship, and
> see people write of HPL's supposed use of themes
> by Hawthorne or Melville- when in truth HPL's
> closest literary influences are from the Munsey
> pulps he idolized in the early 1900's, and writers
> like Edgar Rice Burroughs, Charles B. Stilson,
> Garrett P. Serviss, George Allan England, and J.
> U. Giesy.

I have to ask why this reaction? Certainly, I don't think anyone either can or should deny the influence of the Munsey magazines -- or even the pulps -- on Lovecraft and his work, and this is a very good field for investigation for Lovecraftian scholars. At the same time, surely the connection to Hawthorne, Melville, and the like is no less deserving of consideration, as it is evident that Lovecraft did read these and other "classic" American writers, and often drew inspiration from passages in their work. I'm afraid I can't at all agree that the popular writers were "closer" literary influences -- I think that is taking things much too far, and in fact flies in the face of the evidence in many cases -- but that they were indeed important influences is completely correct.

The problem with citing the various popular writers (and magazines) mentioned may simply be the enormous plethora of such, combined with the difficulty of access for many -- especially the amateur scholars; whereas the canonical writers are much more accessible to both such scholars and their potential readers. This is, again, not to say the other branch is unworthy, or would prove unfruitful, of investigation -- quite the contrary. (As a personal example, I recently got my hands on a copy of Victor Rousseau's The Sea Demons and read it. I was aware of the influence cited by de Camp and others on the creation of the inhabitants of Innsmouth, but what struck me most was the passage involving the sea-creatures' idol, which I would say has much to do with the similar discovery of the monolith in "Dagon", written approximately a year later -- so much so that I find it much more impressive than the former instance.) But if it is a problem of having access to the materials, that rather puts things on a different footing, doesn't it? And, in the meantime, why not explore the cases of influence from these other writers, as well....?

Quote:

I think that is taking things much too far [...]

Welcome to the core of Gavin's critico-analytical method! :-P

As you've discerned, the method consists primarily of over-simplification, of extreme, sweeping judgments based upon subjective interpretations, of black-and-white moralizing, and of citing/asserting basically anything that will denigrate Lovecraft....

Note to Gavin: If you find actually anybody to publish this stuff of yours, then don't forget to sign your article "Oedipus".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28 Jul 09 | 09:13PM by Kyberean.

jdworth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In going over the previous post, I was rather
> struck by the following:
>
> Gavin Callaghan Wrote:
>
> > It makes me cringe when I read Lovecraftian
> scholarship, and
> > see people write of HPL's supposed use of
> themes
> > by Hawthorne or Melville-
>
> I have to ask why this reaction?

JDWorth is right, the statement is meant to be shocking. But remember, this is no different from HPL's own assessment of his own work, which he repeately lamented as being too-heavily influenced by things like the pulps. I do think HPL was wrong to lament this: the pulps, the comics (which HPL also disliked), and film can be, and are, great art. But I also think HPL's fictional influences & methods should not be misrepresented.