I just finished reading a wonderful book entitled "Ghost Hunters: William James and the Search for Scientific Proof for Life After Death." I thought I would just throw it out there, as it might appeal to people in this forum. It's about William James and his attempt to verify paranormal phenomena (telepathy, mediums, clairvoyance, etc) through the scientific method. If nothing else, it's a fine and elegant survey of the whole "spiritualist movement," that swept over the world around the turn of the 19th century.

I believe CAS claimed to have seen an apparition in his youth, as well as in later life (the former was in his bedroom, I believe, while the latter was what we might nowadays call a "UFO"). Of course, Lovecraft would have told him it was damned nonsense (I'm assuming Smith never mentioned these experiences to HPL?). For my part, I come down firmly on the Smith side of the argument. I once had a very similar experience and I'm reasonably confident that there's something to it. But that's neither here nor there. As I said, I just wanted to recommend a truly first rate book that might appeal to my fellow travelers on this site (If anyone has some suggestions of other works in the same vein, it would be interesting to see what people would recommend.)

Thanks for the recommendation -- I also believe in the supernatural and am always glad to read books in this sort of vein.

In regard to Lovecraft's response, I do agree that he wouldn't believe in the true supernatural validity of Smith's claim, but somehow I can't quite see him actually telling Smith that it was nonsense. There are moments in their correspondence -- such as when Smith discusses reading Montague Summers -- in which Smith clearly shows his willingness to believe in such things, and I have yet to see Lovecraft actually bother to contradict him. I almost feel as though Lovecraft the materialist did not wholly wish to alter the perception of Smith the mystic/poet and that may account for some of his reserve on that front.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 13 Jan 20 | 09:41PM by ArkhamMaid.

Colin?

Yes; I know, it's a rather confusing name to have, since I am actually female.

ArkhamMaid wrote:

Quote:

I almost feel as though Lovecraft the materialist did not wholly wish to alter the perception of Smith the mystic/poet and that may account for some of his reserve on that front.

Based upon the HPL/CAS correspondence I have read, I would have to disagree respectfully. I am not at home, now, and so I cannot check my books, but I recall an incipient debate or two in the correspondence where HPL was perfectly willing to take up the cudgels, but where HPL allowed CAS's concessions to mollify him.

CAS clearly did not want to enter into serious debate with Lovecraft, and for good reason, I'd say, as HPL was a ferocious debater even with close friends, and one who gave no quarter. I sense that, in general, CAS was generally not the type to do much debating or arguing, even over topics of purely intellectual disagreement.

As an aside, it's amusing to note that even in an early letter to CAS that absolutely fawns over the then-recently published Ebony and Crystal, HPL questions CAS's pronunciation/scansion of the word Uranus as it appears in a line from (I believe) The Hashish-Eater.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14 Jan 09 | 03:54PM by Kyberean.

Clark did not like verbal conflict, though he held very strong opinions on matters such as Freudianism (as he called it), the general decline of society, politicians, and "modernism" in literature - but he did acknowledge toward the end that for him things that once were shadowy had become sure, and things once sure had become shadowy -- I think that's almost a direct quote

I agree that Lovecraft wouldn't have said "damned nonsense,"--except of course, in a friendly bantering way. But for people who accept at least the possibility of the spiritual/paranormal realm, Lovecraft can seem a bit obtuse with his absolute refusal to think in anything but the crassest materialistic terms. His philosophical consistency in that respect is quite admirable, but I just happen to think he was wrong. In a lot of ways, Lovecraft was a product of the time. After all, people like Russel, Dewey, Spencer, Huxley, were more or less the unquestioned metaphysical arbiters of the day. But we really live in a new era, where militant materialism is confined to a few vocal, though frequently disagreeable people like Richard Dawkins (I say "disagreeable" in relation to his personality, not his views); however, such folk are far from having the monopoly they once did.

Anyhow, I don't want to get too off-topic. But I would be interested to see if James's experiences would make any sort of impression on an absolute skeptic. If nothing else, I was rivited by the fact that such a striking period of history should be all but lost to us. To dismiss their findings out of hand, seems to me a hasty and unscientific variety of dogmatism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14 Jan 09 | 11:02PM by Dexterward.

It would be interesting to know whether, or to what extent, HPL was aware of such research as James's. I don't doubt that HPL was open to the possibility of what we call "the paranormal"--provided that it had scientists' imprimatur. The principal difference between CAS and HPL in this area, it seems to me, is that HPL needed science's "permission" in order to consider the possibility of paranormal or other outre' phenomena, whereas CAS did not.

To anyone who is interested in this subject, but with reference to more modern experiences than James's, I highly recommend John Horgan's Rational Mysticism and Gary Lachman's Secret History of Consciousness.

Yes, Kyberean, the Lachman book sounds interesting. I also notice he has another one called "A Dark Muse"--apparently a history of the Occult. That one sounds like it might even appeal to me more than the "Secret History of Consciousness" (though that looks good too). Are you familiar with that one as well?

And speaking of guilty pleasures. After reading "Ghost Hunters" I sort of went off on a tangent and started reading a number of works that are considered "classics" in the fieldsof demonology, ghosthunting, etc. One of them was "The Demonologist: A life of Ed and Lorraine Warren" (of Amityville fame, for those who haven't heard of the Warrens). I don't know that I can recommend that one, because it's just a bit "too much" But it was striking in its way, and a short fun read on the whole.

In the same vein, I also gave Malachi Martin's "Hostage to the Devil" a try. (Malachi Martin is a Jesuit priest who is perhaps the world's most famous exorcist.) I still don't know what to make of the book, but I will say this: it was by far and away the creepiest thing I've ever read (and I don't scare easily). And whether or not any of it is "true" it does have literary merit (even if it is overcolored at times). Really, I don't recall ever reading anything so disturbing. But like I said, it was a guilty pleasure, so don't hold that one against me.

Lachman's Secret History is the only book of his that I have read. I'd like to read some of the others, time permitting, but I am more interested in alternative theories of consciousness thatn I am in the occult, per se--although, as Lachman's book demonstrates, the two areas certainly overlap. I suppose I am interested in the occult only insofar as it is discussed in relation to such theories of consciousness, and the Secret History is a gold mine, in that respect.

At any rate, I mentioned Lachman's book here because it discusses William James's parapsychological work, Benjamin Paul Blood (whom CAS mentions in passing in a letter or essay) and his experiments with nitrous oxide, Moskvitin's theory of "ordinary reality as input-based hallucination" (which is very germane to CAS's thought), etc.

Thanks for bringing up this interesting thread. Ghost stories, particularly of the Victorian era, are one of my favorite genres. Dexterward wrote:

"I believe CAS claimed to have seen an apparition in his youth, as well as in later life (the former was in his bedroom, I believe, while the latter was what we might nowadays call a "UFO")."

I have often wondered about this latter experience mentioned by CAS and feel it's very likely that on this occasion Smith saw a large owl flying overhead at night and blotting out the stars. It would have been utterly soundless, but quite noticable if one were looking in the right direction. I don't recall the exact quote, but wasn't he in the company of some lady-friend at the moment? I don't mean to take any wind out of the sails of this discussion, but I have seen this phenomenon myself and it was very weird and seemingly inexplicable at the time.

I also believe in some sort of cosmic consciousness for the simple reason that the world and cosmos in which we live is so intricate and bizarre, it seems beyond mere chaos. Also, regarding religion, even though when taken literally many religeous beliefs are patently unbelievable, I would hate to believe that all the wars fought and books written and lives devoted to these concepts were completely baseless. I am one of those who is waiting and hoping to be shown the greater truth in a way which does not rely on faith alone.
-Ron the philosopher

I'd like more information about these experiences of CAS's, as well. To the list, I would add the episode of the "demonian face" at the Bohemian Club.

There's also the odd anecdote from Steve Behrend's Starmont Guide to CAS, I believe, about CAS's perhaps having practiced some ritual magic. As usual, Calonlan and Scott Connors could best shed light on some of these anecdotes, and perhaps add others.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17 Jan 09 | 12:30PM by Kyberean.

casofile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have often wondered about this latter experience
> mentioned by CAS and feel it's very likely that on
> this occasion Smith saw a large owl flying
> overhead at night and blotting out the stars. It
> would have been utterly soundless, but quite
> noticable if one were looking in the right
> direction. I don't recall the exact quote, but
> wasn't he in the company of some lady-friend at
> the moment? I don't mean to take any wind out of
> the sails of this discussion, but I have seen this
> phenomenon myself and it was very weird and
> seemingly inexplicable at the time.

I can't help but feel that Smith -- who spent a great deal of his life in the woodlands at night -- would have been able to tell the difference between an owl and something else. Also, I don't quite see how the company of a ladyfriend could have impaired his abilities to differentiate between the two.

ArkhamMaid:

I can't help but feel that Smith -- who spent a great deal of his life in the woodlands at night -- would have been able to tell the difference between an owl and something else. Also, I don't quite see how the company of a ladyfriend could have impaired his abilities to differentiate between the two.

I believe that Smith did in fact consider and reject the "nightbird" explanation . . . I haven't yet located the quote, but I think Smith may have written "the thing was too large to have been any bird . . ." or something to this effect. The point I was trying to make was that some uncanny event may seem inexplicable at the time, yet upon later reflection (perhaps even years later) some logical explanation becomes evident. Perhaps the owl was larger or closer than Smith thought possible at the time. I confess to having a particular recollection from my youth in mind which I thought extraneous at the time, but which I will now relate. Hopefully this will not seem too boring or off-topic.

One night a group of high school friends and I had driven up in the Orinda hills to Tilden park (this is in the East bay area) There was at the time an urban legend of sorts regarding the "White Witch" who reportedly hung about along the road up to Tilden. I believe she would accept rides from people only to disappear, or even more dire events were reported from those who claimed to have met her. After romping about the wide lawns in the moonlight for some time, we headed back down the winding road. (We had of course been discussing the White Witch and wondering if we might not have an encounter.) As we rounded a curve everyone in the van clearly saw two glowing, nebulous objects (one large and one smaller) lift from the side of the road and float swiftly up into the trees. We all yelled, screamed, and began comparing notes. One girl claimed she had seen a woman walking a German shepherd dog, while the rest had all seen the glowing shapes fly up from the road. We were all certain we had seen something supernatural. This remained one of the most inexplicable experiences of my youth until many years later. I was driving alone in some river canyon up in the Auburn area one night, and upon rounding a switchback sort of curve I clearly saw a similar manifestation. This time, being alone and unaffected by the group mentality (or hysteria) I realized that my headlights had bounced off some puddle of water along the side of the road and sent eerie reflections flying up into the trees. I then realized this was the most likely explanation for what we had seen years before. Although I personally prefer the "White Witch" theory, I have to admit the other is much more likely.

Also, I didn't intend to insinuate that Smith's friend may have impaired his perceptions in any way, although I must confess the combination of starlight and female companionship might well addle the wits of any red-blooded male! I was just trying to recall the exact nature of the quote. I think it must be in the Nec press edition of CAS letters to Lovecraft, but haven't yet located this to check it out. I'll dig this out and see . . .

Thanks for your anecdote! I understand now what you previously meant about such events seeming supernatural at the moment of perception and then later on appearing quite natural. Unfortunately, as we're unable to ask Smith whether this was the case or not, all of this is pure conjecture.