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The Rise and Fall of the Cthulhu Mythos (S.T. Joshi)
Posted by: Eldritch Frog (IP Logged)
Date: 14 May, 2009 10:30AM
Have any of you read this book yet? I just got a copy from Amazon, but I will not have a chance to read it for a few months.

The introduction alone made me smile as it already showcases S.T.'s Poe-esque criticism of some of the writers of "Cthulhu Mythos Fiction".

It appears that it will be a scholarly, yet entertaining study of this sub-genre of horror fiction!
-----------------------------
Quote:
http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Fall-Cthulhu-Mythos/dp/0978991184/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242314357&sr=1-1
The Rise and Fall of the Cthulhu Mythos (Hardcover)
by S. T. Joshi (Author), Jason C. Eckhardt (Illustrator) # Hardcover: 312 pages
Publisher: Mythos Books LLC; First edition (November 30, 2008)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0978991184
ISBN-13: 978-0978991180

Noted Lovecraftian scholar S. T. Joshi has authored a criticism of Lovecraftian and Cthulhu Mythos fiction, beginning with the stories by H.P. Lovecraft that gave birth to the entities, locales, books, and other plot devices that have come to be known as the Cthulhu Mythos. Joshi further details the works of August Derleth, Frank Belknap Long, Clark Ashton Smith, Robert E. Howard, Donald Wandrei, Robert Bloch, Fritz Leiber and other. Joshi then expounds upon the Derleth Mythos and its influence on subsequent Lovecraftian fiction. Joshi then explores a new generations of Mythos writers and their respective expansion of the Cthulhu Mythos, including Richard L. Tierney, Gary Myers, Brian Lumley, Ramsey Campbell, Michael Shea, Walter C. DeBill Jr. and others. Finally, Joshi reviews some of the more modern authors who have taken up the Lovecraftian mantle: Jeffrey Thomas, Stanley C. Sargent, Wilum H. Pugmire, Thomas Ligotti, Joseph C. Pulver and many others.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14 May 09 | 10:36AM by Eldritch Frog.

Re: The Rise and Fall of the Cthulhu Mythos (S.T. Joshi)
Posted by: jdworth (IP Logged)
Date: 14 May, 2009 02:54PM
Yes, I have read the book -- read it just after it was released, while I was in the process of moving house. While not the best book STJ has done, it is certainly lively and informed (and informative) enough to make it well worth while for those interested. However, I would caution those who are looking to this for added tales in the Mythos that there are slender pickings here... on the whole, at any rate. It's a critical book, not a guide, and of course reflects that approach.

I don't entirely agree with some of his assessments, but nonetheless I found it enjoyable... I only wish it had been longer and a bit more in depth, if only for the deeper critical insight into both the worthy and unworthy efforts in this surprisingly large field...

Re: The Rise and Fall of the Cthulhu Mythos (S.T. Joshi)
Posted by: wilum pugmire (IP Logged)
Date: 15 May, 2009 06:22PM
I've bought two copies, one to keep here at my writing table for quick and easy reference, and one for my shelf of Mythos in hardcover. I am now reading the book for the third time. The first time was a rush of ecstasy -- it's a great, a wonderful book. It makes me thrill to be a Mythos writer. S. T. is the ONLY critic whose opinion means anything to me, & to have him say anything positive about my work wows me. I feel that, in many ways, my work is too Lovecraftian and that only those readers who are intimate with Lovecraft's fiction can fully "get" my books. And S. T., being the world's leading Lovecraft scholar, "gets" me like no one else, in my opinion.

I have written gobs of comment on the book, and will continue to write much more at Lovecraft sites. (It feels like intrusion to write too much concerning Lovecraft here, at a site devoted to Smith.) There is much I disagree with, such as his contention that "The Dunwich Horror" is an artistic failure. But as a history of the Mythos, this book is magnificent. There were two books, when I first became Lovecraftian, that filled me with a desire to write Mythos fiction, Derleth's TALES OF THE CTHULHU MYTHOS and Carter's LOVECRAFT: A LOOK BEHIND THE CTHULHU MYTHOS. I devour'd those books, I loved them completely and utterly. They are responsible, in large part, for my being a Mythos writer. S. T.'s book has had exactly that effect, only moreso. I've completed three new books since last October, all of them Mythos/Lovecraftian fiction and poetry. I am now working on a wee chapbook of weird fiction for a press that publishes a lot of "extreme" cutting edge horror. I thought it was time for me to try my hand at non-Lovecraftian horror, the weird subtly erotic kind of thing I used to do. I've been trying for almoft two months to work on such a book, and I have completed nothing -- zilch. I realised last night that I cannot write the book because, deep down, I REALLY want to write another book of Mythos fiction, and the main reason I want to is because Joshi's magnificent book has me all on-fire about this sub-genre, excited about writing Cthulhu Mythos as never before. It is the great challenge for the modern Mythos writer: to write Mythos fiction that pays authentic tribute to Lovecraft without merely ripping off his ideas. THE RISE AND FALL OF THE CTHULHU MYTHOS has increas'd my desire to try & write such weird fiction. This is too ironic, remembering that S. T. has express'd more than once his wish that we Mythos fen would just stop writing this wank. Even more ironic, as announced in S. T.'s new issue of his EOD zine, is that he has now been employ'd by a small press publisher to edit a new line of Cthulhu Mythos books! What an eldritch world!!!

"I'm a little girl."
--H. P. Lovecraft, Esq.

Re: The Rise and Fall of the Cthulhu Mythos (S.T. Joshi)
Posted by: Kyberean (IP Logged)
Date: 15 May, 2009 08:34PM
Ah, Joshi... Here's a link to one of his latest works. I was quite surprised, since I thought all that interested him were Lovecraft and atheism!

Re: The Rise and Fall of the Cthulhu Mythos (S.T. Joshi)
Posted by: Eldritch Frog (IP Logged)
Date: 15 May, 2009 11:43PM
wilum pugmire Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've completed
> three new books since last October, all of them
> Mythos/Lovecraftian fiction and poetry.

I own a hardcover 1st edition of your "Sesqua Valley & Other Haunts"! Very good book!

Re: The Rise and Fall of the Cthulhu Mythos (S.T. Joshi)
Posted by: wilum pugmire (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2009 03:24AM
Eldritch Frog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wilum pugmire Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I've completed
> > three new books since last October, all of them
> > Mythos/Lovecraftian fiction and poetry.
>
> I own a hardcover 1st edition of your "Sesqua
> Valley & Other Haunts"! Very good book!

Thank you. That hardcover is now selling for $250! I shoulda stocked up! A lot of that writing makes me groan now. I was my own editor, and I got away with gobs of grammatical anarchy, making up my own words, misuse of language, Lovecraftian affectations such as "shew" and "antient." When S. T. Joshi became my editor for THE FUNGAL STAIN he wouldn't let me get away with any of that nonsense, and thus the writing in that Hippocampus book is far more professional.

Re: The Rise and Fall of the Cthulhu Mythos (S.T. Joshi)
Posted by: walrus (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2009 03:45AM
wilum pugmire Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is much I disagree with, such as his contention that "The Dunwich Horror" is an artistic failure. But as a history of the Mythos, this book is magnificent.

Yes, one gets the feeling that STJ perhaps makes a bit too much of the failures of Dunwich to measure up to the (admittedly) higher level of the masterworks. I have myself read very little Mythos fiction since being a teenager -- since hardly anything else gave the same kick as Lovecraft (with TED Klein & some others as rare exceptions) -- so it will be interesting to learn what Joshi considers worth reading.

> Even more ironic, as announced in S. T.'s new issue of his EOD zine, is that he has now been employ'd by a small press publisher to edit a new
> line of Cthulhu Mythos books! What an eldritch world!!!

Well that is ironic! (The latest EOD hasn't reached me yet so this was news to me.)

Juha-Matti

Re: The Rise and Fall of the Cthulhu Mythos (S.T. Joshi)
Posted by: wilum pugmire (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2009 12:46PM
Yes -- S. T. is becoming an ekdritch combination of Lin Carter and August W. Derleth, first writing an entire book about the history of the Mythos and now editing books of Mythos fiction for Hippocampus and this new press. You see what happens when you mess with ye Mythos -- it CONSUMES!! Yog-Sothoth!

"I'm a little girl."
--H. P. Lovecraft, Esq.

Re: The Rise and Fall of the Cthulhu Mythos (S.T. Joshi)
Posted by: calonlan (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2009 07:32PM
No particular comment, haven't read any of his stuff particularly - however, I am always disturbed when the media announcements use the word "author" as a verb -
yucch! It hits me like a sign advertising a "Garge sale" =my immediate reaction is that I would be unlikely to find anything at that "garage" likely to be of interest.

Re: The Rise and Fall of the Cthulhu Mythos (S.T. Joshi)
Posted by: jdworth (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2009 11:13PM
Kyberean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ah, Joshi... Here's a link to one of his latest
> works. I was quite surprised, since I thought all
> that interested him were Lovecraft and atheism!


Well... assuming you aren't speaking tongue-in-cheek here... um, no:

[en.wikipedia.org]

Re: The Rise and Fall of the Cthulhu Mythos (S.T. Joshi)
Posted by: Kyberean (IP Logged)
Date: 17 May, 2009 07:41AM
Quote:
Assuming you aren't speaking tongue-in-cheek here...

I was, but if I'd amended my statement to read "weird fiction and atheism", then I wouldn't be far wrong.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17 May 09 | 10:56AM by Kyberean.

Re: The Rise and Fall of the Cthulhu Mythos (S.T. Joshi)
Posted by: jdworth (IP Logged)
Date: 17 May, 2009 07:49AM
Kyberean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ssuming you aren't speaking tongue-in-cheek
> here...
>
> I was, but if I'd amended my statement to read
> "weird fiction and atheism", then I wouldn't be
> far wrong.


Well, he's also done books on H. L. Mencken, Ambrose Bierce (far beyond the weird work, including letters, political writings, and the like), political issues, and so on....

Re: The Rise and Fall of the Cthulhu Mythos (S.T. Joshi)
Posted by: Kyberean (IP Logged)
Date: 17 May, 2009 10:54AM
I wrote "wouldn't be far wrong", and I stand by that assertion. As the bibliography you cite demonstrates, there's not too much "and so on", relative to Joshi's dominant obsessions and interests. Still, it was a minor point, one made semi-facetiously, and I don't intend to argue about it.

Joshi's mixed competence as an amateur scholar and editor would make for a much more substantive discussion. The fiasco with the Penguin editions of Lovecraft's tales is well known. One of my favorite Joshi howlers occurs in his edition of Lovecraft's Annotated Supernatural Horror in Literature, where he mentions in a footnote that very few of Gustav Meyrink's works had been translated into English. In fact, at the time of the publication of The Annotated Supernatural Horror in Literature, at least a half-dozen of Meyrink's works had been translated into English.

The only reasonable explanation I can find for this gross error is that the draft of Joshi's manuscript had been done ages before he found a publisher for it. Once he found one, I imagine that he failed to update and correct the manuscript. Not that that's an excuse, mind you.

Re: The Rise and Fall of the Cthulhu Mythos (S.T. Joshi)
Posted by: Martinus (IP Logged)
Date: 17 May, 2009 11:52AM
Hmmm... wouldn't that depend on how you define "very few"? Half a dozen doesn't sound like an overwhelming number.

Re: The Rise and Fall of the Cthulhu Mythos (S.T. Joshi)
Posted by: Kyberean (IP Logged)
Date: 17 May, 2009 11:58AM
If I had my copy of the book handy, then I could be more specific, but it was lost/stolen during a move a few years ago, and I have not yet replaced it. I do know that Joshi strongly implies, or even states, in the relevant endnote that next to none of Meyrink's weird fiction was available in English. The fact of the matter, however, is that, at the time Joshi published this work, the majority of Meyrink's weird fiction had, in fact, been translated into English. Is "majority", therefore, enough for you? It certainly is, for me.

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