I just had a very enjoyable ninety minutes (and a couple of whiskey sours) watching the recent documentary on HPL,
"Fear of the Unknown". I just stumbled on it but you probably know it's been out since about october, 2009. It was
a lot of fun and I enjoyed it alot but one thing that kept bugging me was, "When are they gonna mention CAS?".
The answer was - Never.
Although his name or picture was shown several times along with others in HPL's Circle and although time was spent
on the great volume and importance of HPL's correspondence his name was spoken -Once! And that was a throw-away line. I thought this was pretty poor. Derleth and Wandrei got lots of mention largely I guess because they helped
keep his name alive after HPL had died. OK! So it's HPL's DVD and I"m bitching but I think our CAS could've gotten
at least a minute or two out of the 90 minutes length. For awhile they seemed to be spending more time excusing his
racism than analysing his influence on or friendships with other writers - a major point of any look at HPL. But not one word on CAS? Come on. I expected that at least the author of "Last Oblivion," S.T. Joshi would throw the
Bard of Auburn a bone since he was given a fair amount of screen time himself, but nope.
I kinda wonder if it isn't a type of literary jealousy by these critics, professional or otherwise. I don't begrudge HPL his fame but I think it might be too much to expect the promoters of one author to suddenly be tossing
garlands to another who was incredibly unique all on his own whereas the DVD makes much of Lovecraft's efforts to
"free" himself of the influence of Poe and Dunsany. Any thoughts out there or should I quit kvetching?
I think it's simply a matter of ignorance. Lack of reading experience, understanding, and deeper appreciation, of CAS's work. Following in the tracks of the common bumpkin: you can't expect more from popular media. And also don't forget, CAS foresaw this in The Chain of Aforgomon.
Lovecraft works both for the connosseur, and for the wide masses. For CAS to become equally famous, will require that the human consciousness expands.
Having seen the documentary, I would say it has nothing to do with "jealousy" -- rather, as the previous poster pointed out, CAS simply wasn't relevant to the discussions at hand. The mentions of Derleth and Wandrei, however, were. And yes, the time constraints, combined with the fact that this was a look at HPL's life intended for general consumption (and therefore focusing on getting the facts out and dealing with some of the major distortions and "problem areas" lay readers of Lovecraft would be at least somewhat aware of or curious about), meant that there were quite a number of things which were simply not going to be addressed. Frankly, given Joshi's high regard concerning Smith's poetry (which he has repeatedly said was far beyond HPL's abilities), had such a subject as this come up, or a discussion of those who genuinely influenced the growth of the "Cthulhu Mythos", or more detail on who influenced what stories... I don't think there's much doubt but that Smith would have been brought up.
So I can accept I was just griping. It wasn't the story of CAS and the DVD just wasn't long enough to do right
by those of HPL's Circle. REH's picture was shown more than CAS but I don't think his name was even mentioned.
So be it. What we really need is a three-day conference on, "The Lovecraftian Circle" with guys like Joshi attending
and presenting. Roundtables in three rooms on HPL, REH, and CAS. Wouldn't that be nice? Maybe in september(??)
when Mr. Conners brings out Volume 5. I might even buy a Cthulu Plushie.
cathexis Wrote:
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> What we really need is a three-day
> conference on, "The Lovecraftian Circle" with guys
> like Joshi attending
> and presenting.
Or perhaps, as an experiment, without guys like Joshi attending and presenting.
Or perhaps, as an experiment, without guys like Joshi attending and presenting.
Amen to that!
In such a conference, I volunteer to debate Gavin about the (lack of) importance of Lovecraft's racial views in interpreting his fiction. I'll also gladly uphold CAS's anti-Scientism in a spirited roundtable discussion with all the pro-Dawkins myopes that inhabit this forum--a surprising number, I might add.
I shall be happy to, at the very least, chair a session, as long as I can do it anonymously (e.g., from behind a screen or wearing a bag over my head).
Please read more carefully, or try to avoid the usual Internet debating tactic of endeavoring to change the issue by changing the language. I did not write that Lovecraft's racial views are not "relevant". I wrote they are not important--specifically, they are not important in the way that Gavin and others think they are. I have made my views on this subject clear elsewhere, and I an not going to debate it yet again in this thread, but I at least want to make that clear, and call you on your little rhetorical sleight of hand.
I am not a "Joshi-hater", by the way, but a Joshi critic, meaning, I do not regard him and his often mistake-riddled work idolatrously. As I have also made clear elsewhere, he has done valuable work. I also specifically wrote that I was not going to turn this thread into a re-hash of the Joshi debate (a couple of one or two-line semi-facetious remarks does not a hijacking make), so feel free to reclaim the thread for your more high-minded purposes.
Oh yeah, I definitely want to go to this conference but if Mr. Joshi ever visits
this Forum I don't think we're gonna get him within two time zones of it. Alas!
I would give plenty to toss him into a Q & A with you guys.
It's a bit far from me, and my job isn't safe enough right now that I can afford a trip.
Anyway, Joshi is attending (along with 'our own' Scott Connors and everybody else) but Robert M. Price is the "Convention High Priest". You should go and demand CAS get his due respect. :)
But I thank you for the link. It certainly would interest me.
Here in the Washington, D.C. area I'm not aware of any such Cons.
There's the Star Trek stuff. Stephen Bassett runs a great UFO Con
called X-Con every few years - don't know how you feel about such
matters but I'll admit I went to one and it was very well run and
I met a lot of really interesting to talk to people I'd only seen
on TV before. I think there is a Sherlockian group somewhere in the
D.C./Baltimore area as the guy died in Baltimore and there's a tour.
But I'm not aware of any HPL/CAS/REH kind of groups anywhere around.
HPL would not have liked the choice of Phoenix anyway; It's too far
from New England, it's too hot, and it's full of Mexicans. He would've
liked the recent Arizona Anti-Illegal Legislation that the Media are
making such a ruckus about, IMHO. I wonder if anyone speaking at the
conference will have the balls to say how much HPL would've applauded
such actions.<wink>
cathexis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think there is a Sherlockian group
> somewhere in the
> D.C./Baltimore area as the guy died in Baltimore
> and there's a tour.
Remarkable! Just like Edgar Allan Poe! I had no idea.
> Here in the Washington, D.C. area I'm not aware of
> any such Cons.
> There's the Star Trek stuff. Stephen Bassett runs
> a great UFO Con
> called X-Con every few years - don't know how you
> feel about such...
> But I'm not aware of any HPL/CAS/REH kind of
> groups anywhere around.
How about Providence? Boston?
Aside from the specialized HPL/CAS/REH subject, doesn't every large city in the US have fantasy and science fiction conventions?
> I wonder if
> anyone speaking at the
> conference will have the balls to say how much HPL
> would've applauded
> such actions.
Most people are inhibited by political correctness. Even those who find such legislation motivated. It's collective social pressure sanctioned by the establishment, including all of media and the major political parties.
Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's collective social pressure
> sanctioned by the establishment, including all of
> media and the major political parties.
quote]Remarkable! Just like Edgar Allan Poe! I had no idea.[/quote]
Ooops! My bad. Pretty funny too.
To All,
I did not consider SF & Fantasy Cons but I could. It's just that prior experience has shown me
they are more concerned with riding around on Dragons or maybe Gaming than anything that might
approach Literary Criticism. Don't mean that in a snobbish way, I've read my share of Science Fiction
& Fantasy too, I suppose. But that was my general impression. Your mileage may vary. I think the
sagest remark in this whole thread was that by Knygatin:
[quote]I think it's simply a matter of ignorance.[/quote]
cathexis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I did not consider SF & Fantasy Cons but I could.
> It's just that prior experience has shown me
> they are more concerned with riding around on
> Dragons or maybe Gaming than anything that might
> approach Literary Criticism.
You should try a Worldcon. They always have an academic track.
I just finished viewing Lovecraft: Fear of the Unknown, and was myself slightly surprised CAS didn't get a few more mentions. Ramsey Campbell (I think it was) said his name once, and there was at least one Weird Tales cover shown featuring both CAS and HPL stories, which could have been coincidental. I was struck by how many times Fritz Leiber's name came up, and pleasantly surprised, as in my opinion he is the most noteworthy writer by far out of all HPL's correspondents. Before the flamewar commences, consider that at least CAS has an entire website devoted to him, whereas FRL does not. Which is a damn shame. Overall, I thought the documentary was well done, even-handed, and gave way too much airtime to Neil Gaiman, who seems like a nice enough guy but whose work I can't stand (don't judge me too harshly if you're a "The Neil" fan, I just watched "Dreams with Sharp Teeth" yesterday, the Harlan Ellison documentary, and Gaiman is all over that one too--the poser).
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 27 May 10 | 07:18PM by Radovarl.
Radovarl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Overall, I thought the
> documentary was well done, even-handed, and gave
> way too much airtime to Neil Gaiman, who seems
> like a nice enough guy but whose work I can't
> stand (don't judge me too harshly if you're a "The
> Neil" fan, I just watched "Dreams with Sharp
> Teeth" yesterday, the Harlan Ellison documentary,
> and Gaiman is all over that one too--the poser).
At last, someone else has said this! He's such a star-fucker, constantly leaching off the talent of others. I can't stand his politically correct teen-goth work and the way he constantly associates himself with every weird author ever really gets my goat! Nice guy - who cares? He has nothing relevant to say. Shut up Neil!
EMPERORS OF DREAMS: SOME NOTES ON WEIRD POETRY Includes essays on the weird verse of George Sterling, Clark Ashton Smith, H.P. Lovecraft, Samuel Loveman, Donald Wandrei, Frank Belknap Long For purchase, contact P'rea Press, email: DannyL58@hotmail.com