Edit: removed



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 6 Dec 21 | 04:17PM by Knygatin.

Sawfish Wrote:
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> "...and so who cares?". Who cares if
> unnamed aliens steered humanity's evolution,
> apparently toward a higher form of existence?
>

"Been there, done that." "Not impressed!" ;)

I agree that the space sequences are magnificent, and the battle with Hal is very well done and of future premonition. Also, Kubrick gets the very best out of his actors; perhaps this is related to his intuition and ambiguity that you mention. But I liked the "light show" too, especially the bizarre liquid gaseous dissolutions and ruptures.

>
> So far as relative brain size, this matters, some,
> but we must not forget that a lot of the
> processing capacity of cetaceans is sensory and
> used for nagivation, so until we can accurately
> account for specialized mental needs induced by
> the environment, as the organism's corporeal body
> interfaces with it, comparative size is not overly
> useful.

Is a large brain really necessary for navigation? Don't they follow the Earth's magnetic fields or something such, intuitively? Like birds do when they migrate, and some fish, and even butterflies. These don't have large brains, or brains at all. On the other hand, Cetaceans, and elephants, have documented social life, emotions, and intelligence, and complicated language with many different sounds put together in various combinations much like we do with the alphabet. If they navigate through sheer intelligence, then they must indeed do a lot of thinking and planning, and store visual impressions of geographical locations; I don't doubt they would be able to navigate this way.

Knygatin Wrote:

> Is a large brain really necessary for navigation?

The question is above my pay-grade. But my suspicion is that a big part of the reason why large creatures have large brains is because they have room for them without too negatively affecting their other functions. And a big part of the reason why aquatic creatures may have large brains is because their front-heavy structure is hydrodynamic (if that's the right word) so even medium sized aquatic creatures may have more room for a brain than a medium sized land animal. This is not to deny that dolphins do not have large brains because they are intelligent. Just that it might not be too significant that their brains are comparable or larger than those of humans.

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "...and so who cares?". Who cares if
> > unnamed aliens steered humanity's evolution,
> > apparently toward a higher form of existence?
> >
>
> "Been there, done that." "Not impressed!" ;)

Nah, K. That's not it. It's just that I really don't see that it makes any practical difference one way or the other to my life experience. I'm not looking for a narrative out of life, itself. I'm just looking to survive and prosper, reproducing effectively along the way.


>
> I agree that the space sequences are magnificent,
> and the battle with Hal is very well done and of
> future premonition. Also, Kubrick gets the very
> best out of his actors;

And yet I don't see Kubrick as actor-centric; I see him as primarily mood centric.

> perhaps this is related to
> his intuition and ambiguity that you mention. But
> I liked the "light show" too, especially the
> bizarre liquid gaseous dissolutions and ruptures.
>
> >
> > So far as relative brain size, this matters,
> some,
> > but we must not forget that a lot of the
> > processing capacity of cetaceans is sensory and
> > used for nagivation, so until we can accurately
> > account for specialized mental needs induced by
> > the environment, as the organism's corporeal
> body
> > interfaces with it, comparative size is not
> overly
> > useful.
>
> Is a large brain really necessary for navigation?
> Don't they follow the Earth's magnetic fields or
> something such, intuitively?

Where do the intuitive perceptors and responders reside physically? The fins? The teeth? The nostrils? I think all of this mechanism is physical, and is neural in nature and primarily within the brain is where the processing takes place.

> Like birds do when
> they migrate, and some fish, and even butterflies.

It's still happening physically, and it does no good to compare them with cetaceans or humans without also doing a full inventory of what their environment demands of them neurologically. This is to say that until we take into account if they require complex social interactions, abstract reasoning, 4D spacial processing (comparative, predictive, etc), such comparisons are far too incomplete to be meaningful.

This gets back to why I said that it's specious to compare relative (and absolute) brain size as if this is the attribute that confers intelligence as we humans understand it.

> These don't have large brains, or brains at all.
> On the other hand, Cetaceans, and elephants, have
> documented social life, emotions, and
> intelligence, and complicated language with many
> different sounds put together in various
> combinations much like we do with the alphabet. If
> they navigate through sheer intelligence,

I don't believe I suggested this. I believe that I implied that brain matter may be used for subliminal tasks such as echo location, and that this accounts for some of the brain activity.

> then
> they must indeed do a lot of thinking and
> planning, and store visual impressions of
> geographical locations; I don't doubt they would
> be able to navigate this way.

Until we have a better idea of how they navigate, we can't say whether it's conscious computation, or it's more along the lines of senors detecting stimuli and directing this to the autonomous section of the brain for evaluation and response.

E.g., strenuous exercise--do you consciously begin to breathe more rapidly and deeper, or does this take care of itself autonomously, without conscious mental effort.

...and yet brain activity is involved in the regulation of respiration, heart rate, etc.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh, well. All this reminds me that I must really sometime soon read Darwin's On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection. Not having read it is an unacceptable glitch in my reading experience and education.

Meanwhile, as to my world weariness, especially of the mundane business of men, and my irrepressible fascination with the outre, the cosmic, and the fantastic, the best I can do is to cite Clark Ashton Smith from his memorable poetry in prose: "Tell me many tales, O benign maleficent daemon, but tell me none that I have ever heard ..."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 8 Dec 21 | 07:47AM by Knygatin.

Perhaps the sub-space particles they failed to find in support of String Theory are radiating at a distance from some anguished pit of walking hell who still believes Natural Selection can theoretically explain macro-evolution, despite the Cambrian explosion and modern molecular science. "Sophistication is the daughter of knowledge but not of wisdom." -- Clark Ashton Smith

jkh

Returning to CAS' poetry, I read and blogged this morning about "On the Mount of Stone", one of his romantic verses that fairly took my breath away:

[www.eldritchdark.com]

The line "Dreams, and blood, and flowers" is hauntingly beautiful in context.

I blogged about it here:

[www.desertdweller.net]

I'm curious if anyone else finds this poem as compelling as I do?

Oldjoe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Returning to CAS' poetry, I read and blogged this
> morning about "On the Mount of Stone", one of his
> romantic verses that fairly took my breath away:
>
> [www.eldritchdark.com]
> -the-mount-of-stone
>
> The line "Dreams, and blood, and flowers" is
> hauntingly beautiful in context.
>
> I blogged about it here:
>
> [www.desertdweller.net]
> tone.html
>
> I'm curious if anyone else finds this poem as
> compelling as I do?

I think it's a spectacularly vivid and evocative poem. It seems to have a cadence that I can hear in my head. I can *see* some of the imagery...

I read both the poem and your blog article. I almost responded before reading your article, and I'm glad I did. I have a pretty funny way of reading poetry--perhaps not extending enough artistic license--which I freely admit is warranted when reading poetry in general, and this type (ode?) in particular.

I saw the two stanzas as unconnected parts--the first stanza setting the mood (mythic, fantastic, starkly beautiful), the second extending the mood by declaring the author's love for an unnamed person. The two stanzas were unified by fire. I did not take the pyre or the burnt offering to be identical to the fire mentioned in the second stanza, which I took to be metaphorical, not literal as in the first stanza.

Poetry was his greatest strength, followed by his inspired short stories (not all were), and I guess his sculpture and graphical art come well below these.

But this is just my opinion.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dunno, I find his sculptures kinda cute.

@Oldjoe

I'm glad everything appears to be in order. These are complicated times, to say the least.

Yes, the latter definitely sounds more ominous than the former. I believe the term would be iterative escalation? That's a sign of good poetry, in my experience.

I tried to find something about the etymology of "Amithaine" and apparently "amitha" in Hindi carries the meanings of "limitless/boundless/unmeasurable/infinite/eternal". The poem does also mention marches and bourns so it's safe to guess there's something to it.

There's a Youtube video that interprets Amithaine as a description of the writing process. Makes sense.

I have said it before, so I repeat myself; CAS had a great sense for the essence of sculpture, i.e. undulating surfaces and dynamic placement of mass. Great sculpture is not about visual realism. It is about placement of mass, a pleasing of tactile sensibility.

Also there is a spiritual quality to his sculpture, that seems reincarnated from sculptures of Easter Island (particularly smaller ones, found in a cave by Thor Heyerdahl, photographed and published in his book Aku-Aku in 1957, long after CAS had carved his own).

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have said it before, so I repeat myself; CAS had
> a great sense for the essence of sculpture, i.e.
> undulating surfaces and dynamic placement of mass.
> Great sculpture is not about visual realism. It is
> about placement of mass, a pleasing of tactile
> sensibility.
>
> Also there is a spiritual quality to his
> sculpture, that seems reincarnated from sculptures
> of Easter Island (particularly smaller ones, found
> in a cave by Thor Heyerdahl, photographed and
> published in his book Aku-Aku in 1957, long after
> CAS had carved his own).

That may well be, K. I don't believe that I know much about sculpture other than I know what I like, and I've only seen photos of CAS holding what looks a lot like a malformed paperweight, identified as one of his sculptures. From what I could make of it, it looked like primitivist stuff, like his graphical works (some of which scare me in a very basic way).

While I don't feel I know much about sculpture, almost all of Bernini's work absolutely floors me.

[en.wikipedia.org]

And once, in an exhibit at the LA County Museum of Art, we saw a life-size bronze by a German sculpture I've never heard of and whose name I can't remember, done in the 1920s (I think). It was a standing nude of his girlfriend. She was a small woman, maybe 5'2". slender, expressing the apex of feminine vulnerable beauty. You wanted to protect her from all bad things, as I believe the artist did as well.

You could tell from the work that the artist was deeply in love with her, and now she lives, captured in time, for as long as the bronze lasts.

A hell of a thing to see, for sure.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oldjoe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Returning to CAS' poetry, I read and blogged this
> morning about "On the Mount of Stone", one of his
> romantic verses that fairly took my breath away:
>
> [www.eldritchdark.com]
> -the-mount-of-stone
>
>

I must admit, I find this one hard to grasp. How does the second line and third line of the first stanza connect? Doesn't make sense to me. I don't see what is going on. What is the procedure, or flow, of events? Perhaps someone can explain?

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oldjoe Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Returning to CAS' poetry, I read and blogged
> this
> > morning about "On the Mount of Stone", one of
> his
> > romantic verses that fairly took my breath
> away:
> >
> >
> [www.eldritchdark.com]
>
> > -the-mount-of-stone
> >
> >
>
> I must admit, I find this one hard to grasp. How
> does the second line and third line of the first
> stanza connect? Doesn't make sense to me. I don't
> see what is going on. What is the procedure, or
> flow, of events? Perhaps someone can explain?


In rock-bound Arabia
Grows the myrrh and cassia
Lost altars burned to Alilat,
And spices that
The phoenix gathered for his pyre.

I see the entire first stanza as a three-part list of things, with a parenthetical expansion, to be found in rock-bound Arabia.

Therefore, the narrator tells us that in Arabia, which is rocky around the edges, you can find three specific things: myrrh, cassia (both of which were burned to Alilat at altars no one can presently find), and spices like the ones the phoenix used to make his pyre.

"We're not in Kansas anymore, Toto..."

Anyway, that's how I read it...

Knygatin, are you still into seeing films that are somewhat (or wholly) unconventional? If so, I recently saw "Under the Silver Lake" (~2016) for the second time. It's by no means a truly strong film, but is an effective mixture of physical setting, good acting, physically attractive female characters, and a definite slacker-glamour zeitgeist that saturates the narrartive--much like Liquid Sky is filled up with 70s/80s New Wave sensibilities. The plot is vague and absurd, but the film is somehow is very watchable.

In fact, I recalled that I had enjoyed it the first time, but wondered why, and watched it the second time to see if I still liked it, and why. I certainly did, and yet there were no further internal nuances I picked up--although I could much more clearly see well-employed influences.

Now add in a sort of Lynchian influence, for sure, and the film is what you come up with. Much less looming threat than one feels in a Lynch film, but uses the same forms.

It's as if Lynch had re-made Altman's The Long Goodbye immediately after he had finished Mulholland Drive.

If you see it, I'd be very interested in your reactions.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thank you much, Sawfish! Yes, your interpretation of the first stanza makes sense. I feel enlightened. The "backwards" order of the words in the third line completely lost me. "Which burned on lost altars to Alilat", or something like that instead, would have clicked for me. But the way it stands, sounds as if the altars themselves were burned up; and the sudden switch from presence tense to past tense makes it sound even more odd and unconnected, like the sentence is broken in half. I think CAS is much clearer in his prose. :/

I am still interested in unconventional films, of course. I have not heard of Under the Silver Lake, and neither do I actively seek out post-1980s films. I simply don't like the energy of the times we live in. But I may check this one out.

Last night I re-watched The Wicker Man (1973). A great film, ... in many ways.

Quote:

K.
Last night I re-watched The Wicker Man (1973). A great film, ... in many ways.

To me, I associate this with the strong, scary aspects of paganism.

There are also lots of positive, uplifting elements, too.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~