...and yet, and yet...

In the midst of this waking nightmare, and apparently in spite of it, Obexah, Zotulla's main squeeze, sees Namirrah for the first time and wonders what he's like in bed.

Friends, only CAS...

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...and yet, and yet...
>
> In the midst of this waking nightmare, and
> apparently in spite of it, Obexah, Zotulla's main
> squeeze, sees Namirrah for the first time and
> wonders what he's like in bed.
>
> Friends, only CAS...


Ha, even Zothique women want bad boys! And a bad boy in Zothique is no less than a murderous necromancer serving an anti-god of evil.

By the way, I remembered an interesting monster from CAS' "Abominations of Yondo." It reminds me of Namirrha's parade of kingly corpses and their inhuman occupants. Must have been the seed of the idea.

Quote:

But on its heels ere the sunset faded, there came a second apparition, striding with incredible strides and halting when it loomed almost upon me in the red twilight - the monstrous mummy of some ancient king still crowned with untarnished gold but turning to my gaze a visage that more than time or the worm had wasted. Broken swathings flapped about the skeleton legs, and above the crown that was set with sapphires and orange rubies, a black something swayed and nodded horribly; but, for an instant, I did not dream what it was. Then, in its middle, two oblique and scarlet eyes opened and glowed like hellish coals, and two ophidian fangs glittered in an ape-like mouth. A squat, furless, shapeless head on a neck of disproportionate extent leaned unspeakably down and whispered in the mummy 's ear. Then, with one stride, the titanic lich took half the distance between us, and from out the folds of the tattered sere-cloth a gaunt arm arose, and fleshless, taloned fingers laden with glowering gems, reached out and fumbled for my throat . . .

Makes you wonder how much control those rodent monsters have on the mummies...

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hespire Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------
> ------
> >
> > Coming to the open portals of Namirrha's house,
>
> > the emperor saw that they were guarded by great
>
> > crimson-wattled things, half dragon, half man,
> ...
>
> In rough outline I see something similar to the
> upright squat pink dragon thing on this book
> cover, although more evolved in details.


I always imagined something very similar to that. But reptilian green, and just slightly more avian in shape, likely inspired by the wattle description.

On the subject of animation, addressing both Knygatin and Avoosl (a gathering of Hyperboreans I see!), I figure Harryhausen wouldn't have the stomach for CAS. His work is generally more kind, clean, and positive, but I think the Harryhausen behind that chilling scene with Medusa might work. I'll have to check both of your animation suggestions. Certainly I think Japanese studios would eat up CAS' work, and I mentioned a while ago that CAS' monsters would fit right at home in that country. Can't think of any culture with a weirder, wider variety of creatures!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28 Jun 21 | 11:43AM by Hespire.

A heavenly body, like the sun, can also be a monster.

"On Zothique, the last continent on Earth, the sun no longer shone with the whiteness of its prime, but was dim and tarnished as if with a vapor of blood." ...

"Noon, with its sun of candent copper in a blackish-blue zenith, found them far amid the rusty sands and iron-toothed ridges ..."

I heard on the news that California and Oregon is now moving in direction towards the scorching age of Zothique.

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A heavenly body, like the sun, can also be a
> monster.
>
> "On Zothique, the last continent on Earth, the sun
> no longer shone with the whiteness of its prime,
> but was dim and tarnished as if with a vapor of
> blood." ...
>
> "Noon, with its sun of candent copper in a
> blackish-blue zenith, found them far amid the
> rusty sands and iron-toothed ridges ..."
>
> I heard on the news that California and Oregon is
> now moving in direction towards the scorching age
> of Zothique.

It was hellish. I can assure you.

Average summer temps are about 80 in PDX, and so few older houses have A/C.

The external sensor of our car registered 120 as we drove to an A/C'ed restaurant for dinner yesterday evening. Even driving the Mohave desert in CA, many times, I'd never felt anything like it because it was 86 at night the night before.

But, oh, well!...

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A heavenly body, like the sun, can also be a
> monster.
>
> "On Zothique, the last continent on Earth, the sun
> no longer shone with the whiteness of its prime,
> but was dim and tarnished as if with a vapor of
> blood." ...
>
> "Noon, with its sun of candent copper in a
> blackish-blue zenith, found them far amid the
> rusty sands and iron-toothed ridges ..."


"the day was near to its close, and the sun, which had fallen from sight behind the imperial palace, was barring the vast heavens with bloody rays."

It doesn't get more monstrous than that. Only in Zothique...


> I heard on the news that California and Oregon is
> now moving in direction towards the scorching age
> of Zothique.


There have been several scorching, unbearably sweaty days here in CA, but I'm sure these are only mild compared to the days to come. It's a common symbol for winter and ice to represent death or evil, but with this merciless sun I'd take the far north any day. Might explain my special interest in the Inuit and northern Europe.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 29 Jun 21 | 11:31PM by Hespire.

120 degrees ... Wooo ... I recall there was a movie, although I have not seen it, called The Incredible Melting Man.

But seriously, it sounds like a really bad situation. I remember the fires last summer.


About heavenly bodies as monsters, Fritz Leiber wrote a book called The Wanderer, about a planet passing into our solar system and causing great havoc on Earth by its gravitation. I have not read it yet, it is pretty far down in my to-read-pile.

Hespire Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Knygatin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A heavenly body, like the sun, can also be a
> > monster.
> >
> > "On Zothique, the last continent on Earth, the
> sun
> > no longer shone with the whiteness of its
> prime,
> > but was dim and tarnished as if with a vapor of
> > blood." ...
> >
> > "Noon, with its sun of candent copper in a
> > blackish-blue zenith, found them far amid the
> > rusty sands and iron-toothed ridges ..."
>
>
> "the day was near to its close, and the sun, which
> had fallen from sight behind the imperial palace,
> was barring the vast heavens with bloody rays."
>
> It doesn't get more monstrous than that. Only in
> Zothique...
>
>
> > I heard on the news that California and Oregon
> is
> > now moving in direction towards the scorching
> age
> > of Zothique.

It's paradoxical, CAS's vision of diurnal conditions in Zothique.

It would seem that with a sun greatly reduced in intensity, it would be cooler rather than hotter. Drier I can accept, but warmer?

Too, much of the action in some of the stories would be extremely difficult unless in some kind of full light, or at least aided by torches.

So it's a kind of colorful non-sequitur, to me. I simply ignore it and see Zothique as fully lit. I lack the imagination to construct a relatively concrete image of Fulbra, the king of devastated Yoros, on his sea voyage to Cyntrom, in The Isle of the Torturers. To me, all this happens in full, conventional sunlight. I see it in bright sunlight, a breezey day, full of both regret and guarded optimism, not in a sort of murky blue-black, with a reddish-copperish sun, can't see the horizon, nor the waves beyond a few yards.

"Heresy!"

:^)

>
>
> There have been several scorching, unbearably
> sweaty days here in CA, but I'm sure these are
> only mild compared to the days to come. It's a
> common symbol for winter and ice to represent
> death or evil, but with this merciless sun I'd
> take the far north any day. Might explain my
> special interest in the Inuit and northern Europe.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30 Jun 21 | 10:01AM by Sawfish.

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> It's paradoxical, CAS's vision of diurnal
> conditions in Zothique.
>
> It would seem that with a sun greatly reduced in
> intensity, it would be cooler rather than hotter.
> Drier I can accept, but warmer?
>
> Too, much of the action in some of the stories
> would be extremely difficult unless in some kind
> of full light, or at least aided by torches.
>
> So it's a kind of colorful non-sequitur, to me. I
> simply ignore it and see Zothique as fully lit. I
> lack the imagination to construct a relatively
> concrete image of Fulbra, the king of devastated
> Yoros, on his sea voyage to Cyntrom, in The Isle
> of the Torturers. To me, all this happens in full,
> conventional sunlight. I see it in bright
> sunlight, a breezey day, full of both regret and
> guarded optimism, not in a sort of murky
> blue-black, with a reddish-copperish sun, can't
> see the horizon, nor the waves beyond a few
> yards.
>

Look at the size of the sun in the wonderful Necronomicon Press edition of Zothique. (I don't own the Ballantine edition, only this.)

In their last phase, stars (i.e. suns) often swell up, before they sputter and go out. So on account of their size I think they may still shed heat, even if their light is a dim glowing red. But I would need to return to my astronomy books, to reaffirm my memory on that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30 Jun 21 | 10:56AM by Knygatin.

Astronomy is one thing, but the history of astronomy warrants some research as well. I'm not sure if knowledge of supernovae was widespread in the '30s, or if CAS was inclined to read about such things, but Zothique seems to follow a similar thread as W. H. Hodgson's The Night Land, in that stars dwindle and fade rather than swell and explode. I wonder how much of astronomy CAS had read, and how much of it aligns with recent knowledge.

I have a similar issue as Sawfish. I can't help but imagine Zothique as well-lit, with occasional visions of a red evening sky for the more ominous scenes. When I really focus I can form an impression of the black-blue heavens and the small white sun over the sails of King Euvoran, but when I stop trying my mind naturally snaps back to azure heavens and a normal-sized wistful sun. It highlights the bold recklessness of the king, and the deadly darkness of the nocturnal scenes. Next time I read something of Zothique, I'll try to focus on CAS' impression of the sky, and see how much it changes the story for me.

Regarding monstrous heavenly bodies, I recall a story by Ramsey Campbell mentioning something like a living malevolent planet, moving through ether space. I can't say much more, because Campbell's Cthulhu Mythos stories were quite forgettable, but it sounds like good material at least.

Hespire Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Astronomy is one thing, but the history of
> astronomy warrants some research as well. I'm not
> sure if knowledge of supernovae was widespread in
> the '30s, or if CAS was inclined to read about
> such things, but Zothique seems to follow a
> similar thread as W. H. Hodgson's The Night Land,
> in that stars dwindle and fade rather than swell
> and explode. I wonder how much of astronomy CAS
> had read, and how much of it aligns with recent
> knowledge.
>

CAS read "all" the books in his local library (according to Dr. Farmer). I'm confident he had at least some basic astronomy knowledge, from which he soared out into space on his integrated wide wisdom.

Anyway, I think the accepted theory has been for quite long that, depending on size and temperature, a star in its final phase after swelling either explodes into a supernova, or else gradually goes out, shrink and dwindle into a dwarf (and some quickly collapse upon themselves into a black hole). But whatever, from my standpoint mere speculation, crumbs from an advanced field of science. More simply, I imagine Zothique as an ongoing sunset (even when a candent copper disc, burning at zenith), everything always having the saturated dark colors that only sunsets bring.

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyway, I think the accepted theory has been for
> quite long that, depending on size and
> temperature, a star in its final phase after
> swelling either explodes into a supernova, or else
> gradually goes out, shrink and dwindle into a
> dwarf (and some quickly collapse upon themselves
> into a black hole). But whatever, from my
> standpoint mere speculation, crumbs from an
> advanced field of science. More simply, I imagine
> Zothique as an ongoing sunset (even when a candent
> copper disc, burning at zenith), everything always
> having the saturated dark colors that only sunsets
> bring.


This sounds more logical and consistently easy to imagine than a black-sapphire sky with a copper or red or white sun (he mentioned white sunlight in one story, without describing the sun itself, further confounding my imagination!). And to me an eternal evening sounds more profound as a backdrop for all the sorceries going on. If the sky was almost always black or black-sapphire, it would make the division between night and day (which is mentioned often throughout these stories) a little redundant, along with his mentions of dusk and dawn. And there are some stories which don't comment on the color of the sun or the sky, so the average, uninitiated reader would have to imagine either present conditions or a suitably dramatic twilight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30 Jun 21 | 08:10PM by Hespire.

I also think there is a particular celestial phenomena to take into account, that when the Sun is strong enough (like today), and there is lots of moisture in the atmosphere, the whole sky is lit up and becomes light blue (the way we know daylight).
The moon gives a limited glow at night that we can see by, but the sky is still black and we see the stars.
Similarly one can conceive that a fading sun, like of "candent copper in a blackish-blue zenith", would give a daylight with luminosity comparable to our sunsets, but without lighting up the sky much (especially so, and further enhanced, when the Earth has become much drier than today, and there is less moisture in the atmosphere to light up.) Therefore ..., no bright blue skies on Zothique. One might think that something similar would occur today in deserts along the equator (perhaps it really does?! with a blackish-blue zenith at mid-day?!), but on account of our Sun being brighter, and atmosphere having more moisture at high altitudes, even above deserts, I don't think so. Zothique is in a stage of late evolution and celestial phenomena we have not exactly experienced yet(except perhaps in the earliest stages of Earth, before the seas were formed).

Sawfish's perspective on Zothique is interesting too, that it would be dry, but not warmer because of the fading Sun. There are many considerations to take into effective account. Size of Sun, absolute heat of Sun, lack of a protective atmosphere against the Sun's rays, ... Then, if the heat was high, the seas would evaporate, and consequently there would be moist atmosphere and bright blue skies again?!

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I also think there is a particular celestial
> phenomena to take into account, that when the Sun
> is strong enough (like today), and there is lots
> of moisture in the atmosphere, the whole sky is
> lit up and becomes light blue (the way we know
> daylight).
> The moon gives a limited glow at night that we can
> see by, but the sky is still black and we see the
> stars.
> Similarly one can conceive that a fading sun, like
> of "candent copper in a blackish-blue zenith",
> would give a daylight with luminosity comparable
> to our sunsets, but without lighting up the sky
> much (especially so, and further enhanced, when
> the Earth has become much drier than today, and
> there is less moisture in the atmosphere to light
> up.) Therefore ..., no bright blue skies on
> Zothique. One might think that something similar
> would occur today in deserts along the equator
> (perhaps it really does?! with a blackish-blue
> zenith at mid-day?!), but on account of our Sun
> being brighter, and atmosphere having more
> moisture at high altitudes, even above deserts, I
> don't think so. Zothique is in a stage of late
> evolution and celestial phenomena we have not
> exactly experienced yet(except perhaps in the
> earliest stages of Earth, before the seas were
> formed).
>
> Sawfish's perspective on Zothique is interesting
> too, that it would be dry, but not warmer because
> of the fading Sun. There are many considerations
> to take into effective account. Size of Sun,
> absolute heat of Sun, lack of a protective
> atmosphere against the Sun's rays, ... Then, if
> the heat was high, the seas would evaporate, and
> consequently there would be moist atmosphere and
> bright blue skies again?!

Why don't we just admit that Zothique is on Mars? ;^)

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...and yet, and yet...
>
> In the midst of this waking nightmare, and
> apparently in spite of it, Obexah, Zotulla's main
> squeeze, sees Namirrah for the first time and
> wonders what he's like in bed.
>
> Friends, only CAS...


CAS and the Washington Post.

[www.washingtonpost.com]