Dale Nelson Wrote:
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> Knygatin & all, I often remember that this site
> was created primarily for the discussion of the
> works of Clark Ashton Smith, and that it has a
> long tradition of welcoming discussion of other
> authors of weird fantasy too -- Lovecraft, Machen,
> Howard, Le Fanu, M. R. James, and so on. And so
> for me to write about other topics, not just
> literary ones but social ones and even theological
> ones, is only by the courtesy of the people here,
> who would have the right to admonish me to save
> those topics for some other forums. Also, I
> believe that explicitly Christian comments are
> apt, sooner or later, to revolt people who reject
> that faith. So I intend here to make a few
> explicitly Christian observations, while realizing
> that it may seem appropriate to discuss them
> further (if at all) elsewhere than here at ED --
> and I respect that. My email is a gmail account
> and my handle is extollager, so you know where to
> find me if you wish.
>
> I agree with Knygatin that there is a conspiracy
> afoot, but I see it as greater and older than
> Knygatin appears to. It's the conspiracy
> described in Gregory Boyd's book God at War.
> Perhaps I will transcribe my 2001 Logia review
> here, later today. It involves rebellious spirits
> and fallen mankind, who would set up an anti-God
> world kingdom. In fact, already "the whole world
> lieth in the evil one" (First Epistle of John
> 5:19). From Psalm 2, a poetic work from ancient
> Israel:
>
> 1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine
> a vain thing?
>
> 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the
> rulers take counsel together, against the Lord,
> and against his anointed (=Christ), saying,
>
> 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away
> their cords from us.
>
> --So there's conspiracy for you.
>
> As a rule this deep conspiracy is hidden, but the
> prophet Daniel, for example, was vouchsafed to see
> something of what was happening behind the scenes
> (passage from Chapter 10 pasted below).
>
> In postbiblical times there may have been other
> glimpses. Maybe Procopius was just relating court
> scuttlebutt:
>
> [
sacred-texts.com]
>
> Maybe Ernest W. D. Tennant's Account (London: Max
> Parrish, 1957, pp. 175-183) is just hoaxing us
> with his firsthand account of a weird light
> emerging from Hitler at one of his speeches in
> 1934. I don't know. Tennant's book might be hard
> to get hold of, but historian Richard Overy gives
> the gist of the incident in The Dictators:
> Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Russia, pp. 13-14.
>
> Have aristocrats and the wealthy participated in
> bizarre rituals? Perhaps, perhaps not. One might
> take a look at W. H. Lewis's The Sunset of the
> Splendid Century (1955), the chapter called "The
> Devil and Mme. de Montespan." Such things are
> discussed in Charles Williams's Witchcraft.
>
> The postbiblical things just mentioned could all
> turn out to be false, but spiritual warfare would
> remain real. The necessity is rescue from the
> evil one into Christ's kingdom, to be delivered
> from the power of darkness and translated into the
> kingdom of the Son of God in Baptism (Colossians
> 1:13).
>
> Suffice to say for the immediate discussion that
> Knygatin seems to think the great conspiracy is
> one of a cabal of secretive people against the
> rest of us, something that got going maybe three
> centuries ago and that involves basically just the
> West; but I see something more ancient and global.
> I'm almost inclined to grin and say about
> Knygatin's conspiracy, "If only that were all
> there is to it!"
>
> Anyway, what I've written is just a bit of what I
> believe and think, but perhaps that will be enough
> and more than enough for some, except for a
> transcription of that review of God at War.
>
> From the Book of Daniel:
>
> 10 In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a
> message was revealed to Daniel, whose name was
> called Belteshazzar. The message was true, but the
> appointed time was long; and he understood the
> message, and had understanding of the vision. 2 In
> those days I, Daniel, was mourning three full
> weeks. 3 I ate no pleasant food, no meat or wine
> came into my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at
> all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.
>
> 4 Now on the twenty-fourth day of the first month,
> as I was by the side of the great river, that is,
> the Tigris, 5 I lifted my eyes and looked, and
> behold, a certain man clothed in linen, whose
> waist was girded with gold of Uphaz! 6 His body
> was like beryl, his face like the appearance of
> lightning, his eyes like torches of fire, his arms
> and feet like burnished bronze in color, and the
> sound of his words like the voice of a multitude.
>
> 7 And I, Daniel, alone saw the vision, for the men
> who were with me did not see the vision; but a
> great terror fell upon them, so that they fled to
> hide themselves. 8 Therefore I was left alone when
> I saw this great vision, and no strength remained
> in me; for my vigor was turned to frailty in me,
> and I retained no strength. 9 Yet I heard the
> sound of his words; and while I heard the sound of
> his words I was in a deep sleep on my face, with
> my face to the ground.
>
> 10 Suddenly, a hand touched me, which made me
> tremble on my knees and on the palms of my hands.
> 11 And he said to me, “O Daniel, man greatly
> beloved, understand the words that I speak to you,
> and stand upright, for I have now been sent to
> you.†While he was speaking this word to me, I
> stood trembling.
>
> 12 Then he said to me, “Do not fear, Daniel, for
> from the first day that you set your heart to
> understand, and to humble yourself before your
> God, your words were heard; and I have come
> because of your words. 13 But the prince of the
> kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days;
> and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes,
> came to help me, for I had been left alone there
> with the kings of Persia. 14 Now I have come to
> make you understand what will happen to your
> people in the latter days, for the vision refers
> to many days yet to come.â€
>
> -----Yet I should emphasize that evil is, in
> general, "ordinary." It's not as a rule good to
> occupy oneself a lot with cosmic scale matters, I
> suppose, but rather to (I must sound evangelistic
> for the rest of this sentence) recognize that each
> of us, basically ordinary people neither
> outstandingly wicked or outstandingly good, needs
> the Savior who calls us, each one, to believe the
> Gospel.
i've read yours, and Knygatin's recent comments and will start a new OT thread, if you are willing, titled "OT: When was it significantly different?"
--Sawfish
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"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
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