Knygatin and anyone, have you ever been surprised, during the dream (not in reflection on it after you woke), by something in the dream?

Dale Nelson Wrote:
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> Knygatin and anyone, have you ever been surprised,
> during the dream (not in reflection on it after
> you woke), by something in the dream?


For the better part of my life I have had dreams that I can recall, with greater or lesser vividness and precision, every night. Now that I wake up at least twice a night, I often have multiple dreams that I can think about either better sleeping sessions, at night, or in the morning when I awake.

Last night, my last dream, involved me being at an old fashioned amusement park, holding a bunch of my daughter's childhood playthings--as if she was about 5 and was on one of the rides. Suddenly I saw a girl I had an early crush on. She was super smart and had an odd mystique in those days--not for everyone. She was obviously older.

I was old in the dream, like now.

I was trying to figure out how to approach her, what to say.

I don't believe I'm surprised by anything within the context of a dream, although fairly frequently I am aware that this must be a dream. After I awake, I can be surprised by some of the elements, that's for sure.

It is a red letter day when I do not have a dream to hash over the next morning. It's routine: like brushing my teeth.

--Sawfish

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"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
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Sawfish Wrote:

> I don't believe I'm surprised by anything within
> the context of a dream, although fairly
> frequently I am aware that this must be a dream.

OK -- thank you for responding to my question. Please, anyone else?

I don't remember that I have ever felt surprised while dreaming by something in a dream. And that great Victorian fantasist George MacDonald says something like that in one of his stories -- a character experiences something that would be astonishing in waking life but, in his dream, he is not astonished. I could probably find the reference.

A. Roger Ekirch wrote a whole book, At Day’s Close: Night in Times Past, that could be worth reading. I’m perusing his article “Sleep We Have Lost: Pre-Industrial Slumber in the British Isles,” in American Historical Review for April 2001.

He presents evidence that prior to electrification, people often slept in a segmented rather than consolidated way, first sleep giving way sometime after midnight to perhaps an hour of mild wakefulness followed by a second period of sleep. The wakeful interval might include time for reflecting on a dream one had just had, or quiet conversation or lovemaking with one’s spouse, prayer, etc. He mentions Hawthorne’s piece “ The Haunted Mind.”

This segmented sleep might favor poetic consciousness better than our more characteristic consolidated sleep.

More from & on Dobelli's Stop Reading the News:

"The news is incapable of explaining anything. Its brief reports are like tiny, shimmering soap bubbles on the surface of a complex world" (p. 51).

That familiar worry -- "missing 'something important'" -- I think there's even an abbreviation, FOMO, Fear Of Missing Out.

(Well, you are missing out if your mind is absorbed by irrelevancies, trivialities, etc. Sue went for a walk under branches on Sunday. All of her senses were involved in some degree, even the sense of taste. Brad was in his apartment internet surfing. When Sue came back, she asked him what he'd learned, and he couldn't even remember what he had looked at. Too bad Sue missed out on so much!)

Information is no longer a "scarce resource" but attention is in short supply (p. 49).

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More from & on Dobelli's Stop Reading the News:
>
> "The news is incapable of explaining anything.
> Its brief reports are like tiny, shimmering soap
> bubbles on the surface of a complex world" (p.
> 51).
>
> That familiar worry -- "missing 'something
> important'" -- I think there's even an
> abbreviation, FOMO, Fear Of Missing Out.
>
> (Well, you are missing out if your mind is
> absorbed by irrelevancies, trivialities, etc. Sue
> went for a walk under branches on Sunday. All of
> her senses were involved in some degree, even the
> sense of taste. Brad was in his apartment
> internet surfing. When Sue came back, she asked
> him what he'd learned, and he couldn't even
> remember what he had looked at. Too bad Sue
> missed out on so much!)
>
> Information is no longer a "scarce resource" but
> attention is in short supply (p. 49).


This is why I first conceived of the triage I've mentioned.

Everyone here at ED has been around--no fresh lambs here, I think. By now you really should have a very good idea of what is important to you, and what is of peripheral interest--non-essential. If you don't know by now, you may as well throw in the towel and lay down on your back seeking mercy, puppy fashion..

The media are using the shotgun approach to gain your attention, and hence fatten their wallets. They peddle both personally important items mixed in with those of peripheral interest. Nor can I blame them, since stuff that's important to me may not be to you, and vice-versa.

But honest-to-god, if you're above 40 and cannot tell the difference between things that interest you and things that are important to you, good luck and God bless you.

--Sawfish

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"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
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This thread isn't the ideal place for this quotation, but never mind, I'll probably print it in other threads too. I have looked for this without finding it, & just now stumbled across it. It does relate to this thread, which is, so largely, about reading.

It's C. S. Lewis writing in 1941 to a teenager about to begin studies at Oxford. The young man asked Lewis for advice about what to read. Lewis gave that advice, and concluded his reply thus:

"The great thing is to be always reading but not to get bored -- treat it not like work, more like a vice! Your book bill ought to be your biggest extravagance."

How often that second sentence has come to my mind. Probably it has helped me over some misgivings about purchases that, after all, I might better have not made, but how glad I am now for many books I have bought, have read and reread, or likely will read, much to my profit, including the one that letter is printed in, C. S. Lewis at the Breakfast Table and Other Reminiscences, bought 3 August 1979, and perhaps taken into hand at least once or twice every year since then.

Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?

-Edgar Allan Poe


Yes, I think so. Since our thoughts are rarely focused on the essence of what is going on around us, we are not truly present, it is correct to say we walk through a waking dream.

Only a few rare individuals hit a homerun every day of their lives. Living life to the full. They are legends.

Knygatin Wrote:
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>
> ... Since our thoughts are rarely
> focused on the essence of what is going on around us, ...
>

And inside us ... Most actions are zombie flings of the limbs.

Do people in North America, Europe, East Asia daydream much any more? Has daydreaming or reverie gone the way of walking down the street with your hands in your pockets as you whistle a tune? A thought prompted by de la Mare.

Dale Nelson Wrote:
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> Do people in North America, Europe, East Asia
> daydream much any more? Has daydreaming or
> reverie gone the way of walking down the street
> with your hands in your pockets as you whistle a
> tune? A thought prompted by de la Mare.

An interesting departure; Dale.

I used to day dream constantly--got into trouble in class at school because of it.

Now I don't think so.

--Sawfish

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"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
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It seems quaint, to think of old-fashioned schoolmarms reproaching little boys for whistling. Maybe kids still daydream in class, but my guess is they are texting and so on instead.

A third change I notice -- it seems you almost never see adolescent boys and girls, or young men and women, walking hand in hand or with arms around each other.

They used to do that, didn't they?

I know I did.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22 Aug 21 | 03:16PM by Dale Nelson.

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems quaint, to think of old-fashioned
> schoolmarms reproaching little boys for whistling.
> Maybe kids still daydream in class, but my guess
> is they are texting and so on instead.
>
> A third change I notice -- it seems you almost
> never see adolescent boys and girls, or young men
> and women, walking hand in hand or with arms
> around each other.
>
> They used to do that, didn't they?
>
> I know I did.


A while back I noticed that in popular music; especially the alternative sub genre; there are very few love songs; or romantically based songs.

There are lust songs--there have always been some of these--but few songs even like from the 70s--Mas & Papas; Fleetwood Mac; Eagles; etc. I followed popular music thru grunge and it really started to go away then.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do people in North America, Europe, East Asia
> daydream much any more? Has daydreaming or
> reverie gone the way of walking down the street
> with your hands in your pockets as you whistle a
> tune? A thought prompted by de la Mare.

Akin, only vaguely perhaps, to daydreaming is inner flashes of visions. When going to bed, before drifting off into sleep, there sometimes comes visions of strange and distant landscapes. And these get clearer and continue developing, if we tell ourselves that we believe in them. I never can keep up that belief for long, for it seems too fantastic, and so the visions disappear.

I am convinced we have enormous untapped depths inside us, that are there for our taking if we decide to. Possibly spiritual visions connecting to other worlds. But even if not so, we still have vast potential inside that lies dormant, the accumulations of a lifetime of visual impressions (and, of course, of the other sensory organs as well) that have passed through our retinas, and which our brains can use to build marvelous inner visions. And when we decide to believe in it, it takes care of itself, and monstrous vistas come rolling.

Your comment reminded me a little of the novel Tolkien started, wrote much of, but didn't finish, The Notion Club Papers, in the Sauron Defeated volume of the History of Middle-earth.