...or if not scare; at least affect you as intended--they seem to pose something close to a legitimate threat.

We were discussing Dracula and I broadened it by saying that I have trouble taking them seriously. E.g.; the witch in Hansel and Gretel has never posed a personal threat to me; and so she--and most other objects of terror--are; for me; removed beneath a thick glass plate. They'll never affect me; I'm a safe voyeur.

Pretty chicken if you ask me; but there it is... :^)

But there are other "threat" sub-genre films--some not supernatural but I'll leave those out for now--that do seem to break thru; sometimes enough to enter my psyche thru dreams.

E.g.; the Godzilla type pervasive existential threat has gotten in there quite a bit. Therefore "Cloverfield" worked very well on me. The original "Night of the Living Dead" worked well--although the zombie trope worked only that one time for me. The nature of the threat came out of left field--had no explanation; at all; until close to the end.

In spite of all the negative press "The Blair Witch Project" flirting with only partly revealed threat; worked very well for me. If handled well; the "found video" sub-genre has great potential mainly because we know from the on-set that there is no narrative necessity that any major character needs to survive to tell the tale.

What stuff has worked for you; EDers; and why?

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pretty much I don't watch horror movies, Sawfish. It's not so much that the horror images would bother me now, I think, but that these movies are also, often, characterized by nudity and sexual imagery, and I have old-fashioned notions about that; and that I'm aware I'm getting older and may have some years of dementia ahead of me, in which I will not have control over my mental processes and memories. Will I then be troubled by horror-imagery against my will? Better not set myself up for that. There are one or two other concerns too, but those come to mind immediately.

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pretty much I don't watch horror movies, Sawfish.
> It's not so much that the horror images would
> bother me now, I think, but that these movies are
> also, often, characterized by nudity and sexual
> imagery, and I have old-fashioned notions about
> that; and that I'm aware I'm getting older and may
> have some years of dementia ahead of me, in which
> I will not have control over my mental processes
> and memories. Will I then be troubled by
> horror-imagery against my will? Better not set
> myself up for that. There are one or two other
> concerns too, but those come to mind immediately.

FWIW; sounds understandable to me.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Film scenes that impressed me are largely those I remember from my youth.

The eerie child vampire from Tobe Hooper's SALEM's LOT.

(On a vaguely similar note, I remember from much earlier in childhood a scene where a spooky green space siren - I somehow remember her as green tho I think the episode was in black & white - tries to lure Dr. Smith out of the spaceship on an early episode of LOST IN SPACE; of course I was very young then, and it took me a long time to get over my fear of the Robot after it ran amok in the initial episode -- I kept thinking, why don't they de-activate that menace?).

A recall a single scene from THE HOWLING where a bipedal werewolf menaces a terrified victim who IIRC was the friend of the main protagonist (this is one of the few movie werewolf scenes, if not the only one, that captured some of the horror of my werewolf nightmares). I don't recall much about the movie overall, so I would guess that on the whole it was rather less effective. I'm not even sure I'm recalling the scene accurately.

I thought THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT worked well. It was hugely successful for its tiny budget, so I guess the terrible press must have been good enough as well. It spawned a tiny "found footage" subgenre which included bigger-budget imitators such as CLOVERFIELD, which was less effective for me because I had more trouble identifying with the characters; but I won't say the "found footage" gimmick did not still work to some extent.

I like the idea of a GODZILLA type movie, with the giant monster as an existential threat. It has always seemed remarkable to me how few GODZILLA movies are willing to pursue this theme. It always annoys me when Godzilla has to be the hero of the story, rather than the absolute menace that he was originally.

For horror to work, the viewer must identify with the victim. I've never liked the budget-saving "monster's eye view" technique, for this reasons. I don't want to be on the monster's side.

The first time I saw the scene, in the television film of Susan Hill's The Woman in Black, when the ghost swoops upon the delirious Arthur as he lies in bed, was pretty scary even though I had some idea, from something I'd read, of what was coming. Whew.

Thanks for the response, Platypus. Some responses interleaved, below:


Platypus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Film scenes that impressed me are largely those I
> remember from my youth.
>
> The eerie child vampire from Tobe Hooper's SALEM's
> LOT.


YES!

The little kid floating outside the window, tapping.

I was completely and fully a self-satisfied, smug young adult, and that really scared me, almost instantaneously.

I didn't know Hooper did this. He sometimes had a knack for instinctive, creepy horror. I have a guilty favorite of his: Funhouse. Standard teen slasher plot but some very strange small touches that were subtly more effective in setting mood than many more overt effects might have been.

The female lead went on to play Mozart's wife in Amadeus, FWIW. But Funhouse will tell you why she probably got the role.

>
> (On a vaguely similar note, I remember from much
> earlier in childhood a scene where a spooky green
> space siren - I somehow remember her as green tho
> I think the episode was in black & white - tries
> to lure Dr. Smith out of the spaceship on an early
> episode of LOST IN SPACE; of course I was very
> young then, and it took me a long time to get over
> my fear of the Robot after it ran amok in the
> initial episode -- I kept thinking, why don't they
> de-activate that menace?).

Hah!

This dredges up memories from when I was *really* little.

I went with my parents to see some movie, and the preview for Invaders From Mars (1953--this makes me 6 or 7 at the time) had this image:

[scifist.files.wordpress.com]

It scared me for a long time afterward.

>
> A recall a single scene from THE HOWLING where a
> bipedal werewolf menaces a terrified victim who
> IIRC was the friend of the main protagonist (this
> is one of the few movie werewolf scenes, if not
> the only one, that captured some of the horror of
> my werewolf nightmares). I don't recall much
> about the movie overall, so I would guess that on
> the whole it was rather less effective. I'm not
> even sure I'm recalling the scene accurately.
>
> I thought THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT worked well. It
> was hugely successful for its tiny budget, so I
> guess the terrible press must have been good
> enough as well. It spawned a tiny "found footage"
> subgenre which included bigger-budget imitators
> such as CLOVERFIELD, which was less effective for
> me because I had more trouble identifying with the
> characters; but I won't say the "found footage"
> gimmick did not still work to some extent.
>
> I like the idea of a GODZILLA type movie, with the
> giant monster as an existential threat. It has
> always seemed remarkable to me how few GODZILLA
> movies are willing to pursue this theme. It
> always annoys me when Godzilla has to be the hero
> of the story, rather than the absolute menace that
> he was originally.

The first Godzilla essentially had it right: Godzilla was an uncontrolled force of nature.

The Japanese have--or at least my wife's relatives have--a sort of idea related to kharma--they refer to it as something that sounds like "bah-CHEE". It covers getting your butt kicked for being a sort of smart alec, among other shortcomings often related to hubris.

Given this it's possible to see Godzilla as ba chi for screwing around with the atom. Granted the Japanese hadn't screwed around with it at the time the film was made, but they were *friends* of those who did, so...

>
> For horror to work, the viewer must identify with
> the victim. I've never liked the budget-saving
> "monster's eye view" technique, for this reasons.
> I don't want to be on the monster's side.

No.

I like human villains (sometimes they have a sense of humor that's lacking in the protagonists) often, but not monsters. They represent a personal threat that cannot be avoided or placated.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Two things in particular stick out in my mind. The original B&W Godzilla. The scene when the Elevated is causing along with commuters oblivious to the emminat danger and the motorman suddenly sees the monster walk through the track. The look of terror on his face is terrifying. And then Godzilla picks up a car in his mother and shakes a pasenger off it. The type of scene you rarely see in future Godzila films. Plus at 4 years of age and in Black and White I had no trouble suspending my disbelief.

The other is the recent UK mini Series of Dracula. Mostly honest to the original story but with come contempatty dialog was very well done. The gratuitous and unexpected violence made him a truly terming creature.

Lunatic murder slasher films foremost. Insane psychopaths. I avoid such.
Next, evil spirit films. The Exorcist. The Omen was also extremely unpleasant.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28 Aug 21 | 11:00PM by Knygatin.

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> The first Godzilla essentially had it right:
> Godzilla was an uncontrolled force of nature.
>

Godzilla eventually brought supernatural terror to a level that we've never seen the likes of before.

Regarding Godzilla, there was a semi-recent film called Shin Gojira (Shin Godzilla, or New/God/Devil Godzilla) which went out of its way to avoid the anthropomorphic heroism and return him to his roots. This Godzilla is shown as a twisted, horrific monster, with malformed limbs, too many bones, and a life-cycle with several stages, evolving like a tadpole does. I haven't seen this film myself, but I might want to after this discussion.

One thing's for certain, you will never find the Godzilla of this movie defending humanity! It might as well join the fun with Megalon and Mechagodzilla.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 29 Aug 21 | 11:22AM by Hespire.

Knygatin Wrote:

> Godzilla eventually brought supernatural terror to
> a level that we've never seen the likes of before.

Oooo noooo! I can't un-see that!

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Knygatin Wrote:
>
> > Godzilla eventually brought supernatural terror
> to
> > a level that we've never seen the likes of
> before.
>
> Oooo noooo! I can't un-see that!

;D

SpHespire Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Regarding Godzilla, there was a semi-recent film
> called Shin Gojira (Shin Godzilla, or
> New/God/Devil Godzilla) which went out of its way
> to avoid the anthropomorphic heroism and return
> him to his roots. This Godzilla is shown as a
> twisted, horrific monster, with malformed limbs,
> too many bones, and a life-cycle with several
> stages, evolving like a tadpole does. I haven't
> seen this film myself, but I might want to after
> this discussion.
>
> One thing's for certain, you will never find the
> Godzilla of this movie defending humanity! It
> might as well join the fun with Megalon and
> Mechagodzilla.

Gosh, Hespire, this brings to mind an old Japanese B&W film I saw maybe 35-40 years ago, and whose name I can't remember. It *seems* like an expanded folktale--and maybe it derives from one. It's like this:

There's a remote village probably in feudal Japan. There is a huge stone simalacrum of a warrior in full armor who, at times, comes alive and wreaks havoc.

I remember nothing of the plot, but can recall that on coming alive, he swept his gauntleted hand across his face, which changed from a stern stone visage to a snarling demon face. It was like vengeance, personified.

I am sure that this was not developed for US audiences, but probably after the success of Godzilla in the 1950s, a lot of Japanese domestic market "monster" films were bought up in hopes of appealing to the expanding US market.

Do you know of it, H? I would like to know its name and look it up.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Knygatin Wrote:
>
> > Godzilla eventually brought supernatural terror
> to
> > a level that we've never seen the likes of
> before.
>
> Oooo noooo! I can't un-see that!

Hah, hah!

OT, there is a pre-op drug in use now called propofol that anesthesiologists jokingly refer to as "milk of amnesia". It's used in place of sodium pentothal, which has quite a hangover.

I've had several procedures and had experience of both. Propofol is uncanny in that you can go under in what seems a fraction of a second, perhaps speaking, and wake up later, fully alert, and likely will try to complete the sentence, with no knowledge that time has passed.

It is a very weird experience, but not threatening or alarming or depressing in any way, as sodium pentothal can be.

So, if a way can be figure to have you watch it under propofol, maybe you *could* un-see it. :^)

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gosh, Hespire, this brings to mind an old Japanese
> B&W film I saw maybe 35-40 years ago, and whose
> name I can't remember. It *seems* like an expanded
> folktale--and maybe it derives from one. It's like
> this:
>
> There's a remote village probably in feudal Japan.
> There is a huge stone simalacrum of a warrior in
> full armor who, at times, comes alive and wreaks
> havoc.
>
> I remember nothing of the plot, but can recall
> that on coming alive, he swept his gauntleted hand
> across his face, which changed from a stern stone
> visage to a snarling demon face. It was like
> vengeance, personified.
>
> I am sure that this was not developed for US
> audiences, but probably after the success of
> Godzilla in the 1950s, a lot of Japanese domestic
> market "monster" films were bought up in hopes of
> appealing to the expanding US market.
>
> Do you know of it, H? I would like to know its
> name and look it up.


It sounds like a terrifying story, exactly the thing a Japanese village would have. Living statues and vengeful samurai spirits are common elements of rural folklore. My friend in Japan shared some fascinating stories, like the flying, flaming head of a decapitated samurai, or the statues of mischievous foxes that come to life at a temple of Inari (the god of rice, who is also a lord of foxes).

Is Daimajin the film you're describing? I've seen it long ago, but I can't remember much besides a huge samurai statue terrorizing a village. I also remember thinking it scared me more than Godzilla! Maybe I'll watch Shin Gojira and Daimajin back-to-back next weekend, for a monster romp.

Regarding Japanese monster movies, I remember many of them were dubbed in English since the 70s, but they seem to have gotten more attention in recent years. Obscure movies such as Atragon, Dogora, and Matango have had successful blu-ray releases, and they've been releasing huge collections of the twenty-something Godzilla movies.

I guess very few of those films would count as horror, but for this thread's purpose I remember Matango giving me real chills at night! It was when the last surviving man on an island was surrounded by humans who had been heavily mutated by mushrooms. All the fungus-infested beings were giggling and tittering maddeningly, while the heroine was calling to him for help as they were trying to mutate her. He was too scared however, and abandoned her to flee the island alone. When he returned to civilization, he realized he was already infected by the mushrooms, and regretted leaving the island, where at least he would have been accepted by the strange beings, rather than caged up and studied like a freak.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 29 Aug 21 | 01:28PM by Hespire.