I've got three books on hand that I'm committed to reviewing plus a few others I've started and in which I don't want to lose too much momentum.

But ED seems to be a decent place for people to talk about life, and I thought I might draw your attention to this book and might start reading it before long & posting thoughts on it. I'm already pretty much there with this author. I regret many years of reading a lot of stuff out of idle "political" and "cultural" interest. However, I learned some things worth knowing, I suppose. But it's kind of sickening to think of what I could have been reading when I was too busy turning over the pages of magazines and newspapers.... Well, onward!!


[www.dobelli.com]

I expect the gist of the book, which is probably padded, is here:

[www.theguardian.com]

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've got three books on hand that I'm committed to
> reviewing plus a few others I've started and in
> which I don't want to lose too much momentum.
>
> But ED seems to be a decent place for people to
> talk about life, and I thought I might draw your
> attention to this book and might start reading it
> before long & posting thoughts on it. I'm already
> pretty much there with this author. I regret many
> years of reading a lot of stuff out of idle
> "political" and "cultural" interest. However, I
> learned some things worth knowing, I suppose. But
> it's kind of sickening to think of what I could
> have been reading when I was too busy turning over
> the pages of magazines and newspapers.... Well,
> onward!!
>
>
> [www.dobelli.com]
>
> I expect the gist of the book, which is probably
> padded, is here:
>
> [www.theguardian.com]
> -is-bad-rolf-dobelli


Yes, I quit reguklr news a while back, in the sense that I turned on All Things Considered, McNiell/Lehrer, Cronkite, etc. I grew up thinking that the informed person had to keep up with the news.

I mean, that's what every person who wanrted to diffedfrentiate themselves from Okies and their ilk said, aloud.

Mom and apple pie stuff.

I first realized what it did simply innocuously, with no actual intent to shape or manipulate.

I can recall having a discussion with my then-wife over some remote tragic event--maybe a mining dsiaster. We both felt terrible about it, but in point of fact could not do a single damned thing to help.

It had caused us a sort of personal discomfort that we had no way to alleviate.

Then it dawned on me that for my grandparents, they would never have heard of this kind of remote tragedy--the means of communication were no available. So they blithely lived out their lives unaware and unaffected by this sort of angst.

And it made no real difference in the outcome, just as our awareness made no difference, *except that we felt bad*.

Then later I realized that reporting tragedies could mobilize political and financial support, ostensibly with the survivors and victims to benefit--but did they really? And how would we know, anyway?

But like with most things, it's a compromise: you are better off listen/watching a bit of news, but only so far as to have a general peon-like awareness.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

By the way -- I'm sincerely interested -- does anyone know if Howard, Lovecraft, or Smith were newspaper readers? My sense is they weren't. (Tolkien was -- at least he subscribed to, I think, more than one. C. S. Lewis was not. There's quite a nice quotation from him on the topic somewhere, which I hope I can find.)

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By the way -- I'm sincerely interested -- does
> anyone know if Howard, Lovecraft, or Smith were
> newspaper readers? My sense is they weren't.

My impression is that, yes, Lovecraft read newspapers. If his home provided it, or else at the library. Or else listened to radio. He was quite updated on society and politics.

Smith, I would guess, more hastily leafed through newspapers, and was content with the bare essentials of World events.

Howard, less so. I am sure his parents had a newspaper subscription, although I doubt Howard took much part of contemporary news. But for such a young man, he had remarkable insights of political intrigue, and historical sweep, God knows how he acquired it.

> C. S. Lewis was not.
> There's quite a nice quotation from him on the
> topic somewhere, which I hope I can find.)

I would be most interested in hearing his view of it. From his other insights about a ruling conspiracy, my guess is that he didn't fully trust the media.

Knygatin Wrote:

> I would be most interested in hearing [Lewis's] view of
> it. From his other insights about a ruling
> conspiracy, my guess is that he didn't fully trust
> the media.

No, he sure didn't!

In That Hideous Strength, one of the main characters is a sociologist who gets sucked into the conspiracy and put to work writing news accounts, including of things (e.g. riots that will "justify" military-style police intervention) that haven't happened yet. He gets right to work on "spin" when covering actual events, too.

The novel is a work of fiction, of course, but Lewis was only heightening the effect of what he already believed to be the case. Note: He had firsthand experience of the press. In the States, Time magazine even did a cover story on him and other pieces too, and, sure enough, mixed vulgarity of perception with error. But he regarded the press as turning out lies and debasing people's minds. And this was 80 years or so ago -- before TV.

I should be able to track down some of his comments and report them here eventually.

In the meantime, here's an essay by Lewis -- though as an online offering, it might be a questionable text. I haven't read it word for word but I think there is a small deletion at one point at least.

[liberty-tree.ca]

....OK, here's something I found online as a quotation from Lewis's autobiography:

---Even in peacetime I think those are very wrong who say that schoolboys should be encouraged to read the newspapers. Nearly all that a boy reads there in his teens will be seen before he is twenty to have been false in emphasis and interpretation, if not in fact as well, and most of it will have lost all importance. Most of what he remembers he will therefore have to unlearn; and he will probably have acquired an incurable taste for vulgarity and sensationalism and the fatal habit of fluttering from paragraph to paragraph to learn how an actress has been divorced in California, a train derailed in France, and quadruplets born in New Zealand.----



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 5 Aug 21 | 08:11PM by Dale Nelson.

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> ....OK, here's something I found online as a
> quotation from Lewis's autobiography:
>
> ---Even in peacetime I think those are very wrong
> who say that schoolboys should be encouraged to
> read the newspapers. Nearly all that a boy reads
> there in his teens will be seen before he is
> twenty to have been false in emphasis and
> interpretation, if not in fact as well, and most
> of it will have lost all importance. Most of what
> he remembers he will therefore have to unlearn;
> and he will probably have acquired an incurable
> taste for vulgarity and sensationalism and the
> fatal habit of fluttering from paragraph to
> paragraph to learn how an actress has been
> divorced in California, a train derailed in
> France, and quadruplets born in New Zealand.----


A wise man!

Here is a tiny media example of vulgar sensationalism I took part of the other day (and this was from the Public Service state news!). They have been making extensive reports on rising global temperatures, and petering water supplies that will cause serious problems, rising water prices, and that we must be careful about how we use water. The next day they have a cheery report about swimming pools becoming ever more popular, people buying swimming pools like never before, interviewing people about how fun it is with a swimming pool; without even making a reference of connection to what they said the day before. To me that is proof enough of their no good shallow and false approach.

(Not to worry Sawfish, this time I firmly stay ... merely amused and baffled. :I )



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 6 Aug 21 | 01:32AM by Knygatin.

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dale Nelson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > ....OK, here's something I found online as a
> > quotation from Lewis's autobiography:
> >
> > ---Even in peacetime I think those are very
> wrong
> > who say that schoolboys should be encouraged to
> > read the newspapers. Nearly all that a boy
> reads
> > there in his teens will be seen before he is
> > twenty to have been false in emphasis and
> > interpretation, if not in fact as well, and
> most
> > of it will have lost all importance. Most of
> what
> > he remembers he will therefore have to unlearn;
> > and he will probably have acquired an incurable
> > taste for vulgarity and sensationalism and the
> > fatal habit of fluttering from paragraph to
> > paragraph to learn how an actress has been
> > divorced in California, a train derailed in
> > France, and quadruplets born in New
> Zealand.----
>
>
> A wise man!
>
> Here is a tiny media example of vulgar
> sensationalism I took part of the other day (and
> this was from the Public Service state news!).
> They have been making extensive reports on rising
> global temperatures, and petering water supplies
> that will cause serious problems, rising water
> prices, and that we must be careful about how we
> use water. The next day they have a cheery report
> about swimming pools becoming ever more popular,
> people buying swimming pools like never before,
> interviewing people about how fun it is with a
> swimming pool; without even making a reference of
> connection to what they said the day before. To me
> that is proof enough of their no good shallow and
> false approach.
>
> (Not to worry Sawfish, this time I firmly stay ...
> merely amused and baffled. :I )


HAH!!!

Seriously, K, do you find simply sloppy reporting--of which there's an abundant amount (seems like editors on all on holiday)--as a major factor in this sort of writing?

If I bother to read by-lined reporting in most urban news sources--and these are often very young people since in the age of Facebook, they feel the need to include a headshot--I can easily find stories in which the writer editorially makes a snarky innuendo later in an article, but earlier in the same article the basis for this innuendo is clearly described as having no possible bearing on the reported outcome. In short, what the reporter hints at as the cause of an outrage cannot possibly be the cause, based on the earlier part of the story.

You'd think they'd be too ashamed to be this sloppy under their own by-line, but...

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Knygatin Wrote:

> Here is a tiny media example of vulgar
> sensationalism I took part of the other day (and
> this was from the Public Service state news!).
> They have been making extensive reports on rising
> global temperatures, and petering water supplies
> that will cause serious problems, rising water
> prices, and that we must be careful about how we
> use water. The next day they have a cheery report
> about swimming pools becoming ever more popular,
> people buying swimming pools like never before,
> interviewing people about how fun it is with a
> swimming pool; without even making a reference of
> connection to what they said the day before.

This reminds me of Orwell's 1984. One day the news media report the continuation of Oceania's long war with Eastasia. The next day, Oceanians participate in Hate Week against the foe with whom they have been locked in war -- Eurasia, and the media report the latest developments thereof.

But I think Lewis's That Hideous Strength is actually more prescient of the situation we're in than Orwell's great novel is.

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> HAH!!!
>
> Seriously, K, do you find simply sloppy
> reporting--of which there's an abundant amount
> (seems like editors on all on holiday)--as a major
> factor in this sort of writing?
>
>

Yes, it is a sign of who is controlling the news: the Freemasons/Satanists. Lacking all loyalty to the people, putting up false pretense, without serious depth or representation of responsibility, and pandering to shallow pleasures, while at the same time preparing us for NWO. You should understand what is deep down at heart of this.

It is not simply sloppy editing. It is a general decadence of attitude and opinion that seeps through it all.

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is not simply sloppy editing. It is a general
> decadence of attitude and opinion that seeps
> through it all.


I tend not to attribute to malice what can be more easily explained by incompetence, K.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have mentioned time and time again and given you several chances to study Rothschild and The Money Masters.

I seem to be the only one on this forum who sees a deeper conspiracy behind the ongoing destruction of Western Civilization. Dale is at least open to the possibility of hidden control behind media and government.

It is scary, I know, to think that democracy is a false façade, that we have been completely tricked, and that we are helpless to vote our way out of this mess because it doesn't matter if we vote for one side or the other. We don't want to let go of that last hope. So we blame it on the people instead, for having made bad choices for society. And hope it will turn out better next time.

Knygatin & all, I often remember that this site was created primarily for the discussion of the works of Clark Ashton Smith, and that it has a long tradition of welcoming discussion of other authors of weird fantasy too -- Lovecraft, Machen, Howard, Le Fanu, M. R. James, and so on. And so for me to write about other topics, not just literary ones but social ones and even theological ones, is only by the courtesy of the people here, who would have the right to admonish me to save those topics for some other forums. Also, I believe that explicitly Christian comments are apt, sooner or later, to revolt people who reject that faith. So I intend here to make a few explicitly Christian observations, while realizing that it may seem appropriate to discuss them further (if at all) elsewhere than here at ED -- and I respect that. My email is a gmail account and my handle is extollager, so you know where to find me if you wish.

I agree with Knygatin that there is a conspiracy afoot, but I see it as greater and older than Knygatin appears to. It's the conspiracy described in Gregory Boyd's book God at War. Perhaps I will transcribe my 2001 Logia review here, later today. It involves rebellious spirits and fallen mankind, who would set up an anti-God world kingdom. In fact, already "the whole world lieth in the evil one" (First Epistle of John 5:19). From Psalm 2, a poetic work from ancient Israel:

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed (=Christ), saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

--So there's conspiracy for you.

As a rule this deep conspiracy is hidden, but the prophet Daniel, for example, was vouchsafed to see something of what was happening behind the scenes (passage from Chapter 10 pasted below).

In postbiblical times there may have been other glimpses. Maybe Procopius was just relating court scuttlebutt:

[sacred-texts.com]

Maybe Ernest W. D. Tennant's Account (London: Max Parrish, 1957, pp. 175-183) is just hoaxing us with his firsthand account of a weird light emerging from Hitler at one of his speeches in 1934. I don't know. Tennant's book might be hard to get hold of, but historian Richard Overy gives the gist of the incident in The Dictators: Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Russia, pp. 13-14.

Have aristocrats and the wealthy participated in bizarre rituals? Perhaps, perhaps not. One might take a look at W. H. Lewis's The Sunset of the Splendid Century (1955), the chapter called "The Devil and Mme. de Montespan." Such things are discussed in Charles Williams's Witchcraft.

The postbiblical things just mentioned could all turn out to be false, but spiritual warfare would remain real. The necessity is rescue from the evil one into Christ's kingdom, to be delivered from the power of darkness and translated into the kingdom of the Son of God in Baptism (Colossians 1:13).

Suffice to say for the immediate discussion that Knygatin seems to think the great conspiracy is one of a cabal of secretive people against the rest of us, something that got going maybe three centuries ago and that involves basically just the West; but I see something more ancient and global. I'm almost inclined to grin and say about Knygatin's conspiracy, "If only that were all there is to it!"

Anyway, what I've written is just a bit of what I believe and think, but perhaps that will be enough and more than enough for some, except for a transcription of that review of God at War. [Later: No -- I'll scan it and send it to you as an email attachment if you email me and ask for it.]

From the Book of Daniel:

10 In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a message was revealed to Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar. The message was true, [a]but the appointed time was long; and he understood the message, and had understanding of the vision. 2 In those days I, Daniel, was mourning three full weeks. 3 I ate no [b]pleasant food, no meat or wine came into my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

4 Now on the twenty-fourth day of the first month, as I was by the side of the great river, that is, the [c]Tigris, 5 I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, a certain man clothed in linen, whose waist was girded with gold of Uphaz! 6 His body was like beryl, his face like the appearance of lightning, his eyes like torches of fire, his arms and feet like burnished bronze in color, and the sound of his words like the voice of a multitude.

7 And I, Daniel, alone saw the vision, for the men who were with me did not see the vision; but a great terror fell upon them, so that they fled to hide themselves. 8 Therefore I was left alone when I saw this great vision, and no strength remained in me; for my vigor was turned to frailty in me, and I retained no strength. 9 Yet I heard the sound of his words; and while I heard the sound of his words I was in a deep sleep on my face, with my face to the ground.

10 Suddenly, a hand touched me, which made me tremble on my knees and on the palms of my hands. 11 And he said to me, “O Daniel, man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak to you, and stand upright, for I have now been sent to you.” While he was speaking this word to me, I stood trembling.

12 Then he said to me, “Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard; and I have come because of your words. 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia. 14 Now I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision refers to many days yet to come.”

-----Yet I should emphasize that evil is, in general, "ordinary." It's not as a rule good to occupy oneself a lot with cosmic scale matters, I suppose, but rather to (I must sound evangelistic for the rest of this sentence) recognize that each of us, basically ordinary people neither outstandingly wicked or outstandingly good, needs the Savior who calls us, each one, to believe the Gospel.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 8 Aug 21 | 01:30PM by Dale Nelson.

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Knygatin & all, I often remember that this site
> was created primarily for the discussion of the
> works of Clark Ashton Smith, and that it has a
> long tradition of welcoming discussion of other
> authors of weird fantasy too -- Lovecraft, Machen,
> Howard, Le Fanu, M. R. James, and so on. And so
> for me to write about other topics, not just
> literary ones but social ones and even theological
> ones, is only by the courtesy of the people here,
> who would have the right to admonish me to save
> those topics for some other forums. Also, I
> believe that explicitly Christian comments are
> apt, sooner or later, to revolt people who reject
> that faith. So I intend here to make a few
> explicitly Christian observations, while realizing
> that it may seem appropriate to discuss them
> further (if at all) elsewhere than here at ED --
> and I respect that. My email is a gmail account
> and my handle is extollager, so you know where to
> find me if you wish.
>
> I agree with Knygatin that there is a conspiracy
> afoot, but I see it as greater and older than
> Knygatin appears to. It's the conspiracy
> described in Gregory Boyd's book God at War.
> Perhaps I will transcribe my 2001 Logia review
> here, later today. It involves rebellious spirits
> and fallen mankind, who would set up an anti-God
> world kingdom. In fact, already "the whole world
> lieth in the evil one" (First Epistle of John
> 5:19). From Psalm 2, a poetic work from ancient
> Israel:
>
> 1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine
> a vain thing?
>
> 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the
> rulers take counsel together, against the Lord,
> and against his anointed (=Christ), saying,
>
> 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away
> their cords from us.
>
> --So there's conspiracy for you.
>
> As a rule this deep conspiracy is hidden, but the
> prophet Daniel, for example, was vouchsafed to see
> something of what was happening behind the scenes
> (passage from Chapter 10 pasted below).
>
> In postbiblical times there may have been other
> glimpses. Maybe Procopius was just relating court
> scuttlebutt:
>
> [sacred-texts.com]
>
> Maybe Ernest W. D. Tennant's Account (London: Max
> Parrish, 1957, pp. 175-183) is just hoaxing us
> with his firsthand account of a weird light
> emerging from Hitler at one of his speeches in
> 1934. I don't know. Tennant's book might be hard
> to get hold of, but historian Richard Overy gives
> the gist of the incident in The Dictators:
> Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Russia, pp. 13-14.
>
> Have aristocrats and the wealthy participated in
> bizarre rituals? Perhaps, perhaps not. One might
> take a look at W. H. Lewis's The Sunset of the
> Splendid Century (1955), the chapter called "The
> Devil and Mme. de Montespan." Such things are
> discussed in Charles Williams's Witchcraft.
>
> The postbiblical things just mentioned could all
> turn out to be false, but spiritual warfare would
> remain real. The necessity is rescue from the
> evil one into Christ's kingdom, to be delivered
> from the power of darkness and translated into the
> kingdom of the Son of God in Baptism (Colossians
> 1:13).
>
> Suffice to say for the immediate discussion that
> Knygatin seems to think the great conspiracy is
> one of a cabal of secretive people against the
> rest of us, something that got going maybe three
> centuries ago and that involves basically just the
> West; but I see something more ancient and global.
> I'm almost inclined to grin and say about
> Knygatin's conspiracy, "If only that were all
> there is to it!"
>
> Anyway, what I've written is just a bit of what I
> believe and think, but perhaps that will be enough
> and more than enough for some, except for a
> transcription of that review of God at War.
>
> From the Book of Daniel:
>
> 10 In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a
> message was revealed to Daniel, whose name was
> called Belteshazzar. The message was true, but the
> appointed time was long; and he understood the
> message, and had understanding of the vision. 2 In
> those days I, Daniel, was mourning three full
> weeks. 3 I ate no pleasant food, no meat or wine
> came into my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at
> all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.
>
> 4 Now on the twenty-fourth day of the first month,
> as I was by the side of the great river, that is,
> the Tigris, 5 I lifted my eyes and looked, and
> behold, a certain man clothed in linen, whose
> waist was girded with gold of Uphaz! 6 His body
> was like beryl, his face like the appearance of
> lightning, his eyes like torches of fire, his arms
> and feet like burnished bronze in color, and the
> sound of his words like the voice of a multitude.
>
> 7 And I, Daniel, alone saw the vision, for the men
> who were with me did not see the vision; but a
> great terror fell upon them, so that they fled to
> hide themselves. 8 Therefore I was left alone when
> I saw this great vision, and no strength remained
> in me; for my vigor was turned to frailty in me,
> and I retained no strength. 9 Yet I heard the
> sound of his words; and while I heard the sound of
> his words I was in a deep sleep on my face, with
> my face to the ground.
>
> 10 Suddenly, a hand touched me, which made me
> tremble on my knees and on the palms of my hands.
> 11 And he said to me, “O Daniel, man greatly
> beloved, understand the words that I speak to you,
> and stand upright, for I have now been sent to
> you.” While he was speaking this word to me, I
> stood trembling.
>
> 12 Then he said to me, “Do not fear, Daniel, for
> from the first day that you set your heart to
> understand, and to humble yourself before your
> God, your words were heard; and I have come
> because of your words. 13 But the prince of the
> kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days;
> and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes,
> came to help me, for I had been left alone there
> with the kings of Persia. 14 Now I have come to
> make you understand what will happen to your
> people in the latter days, for the vision refers
> to many days yet to come.”
>
> -----Yet I should emphasize that evil is, in
> general, "ordinary." It's not as a rule good to
> occupy oneself a lot with cosmic scale matters, I
> suppose, but rather to (I must sound evangelistic
> for the rest of this sentence) recognize that each
> of us, basically ordinary people neither
> outstandingly wicked or outstandingly good, needs
> the Savior who calls us, each one, to believe the
> Gospel.


i've read yours, and Knygatin's recent comments and will start a new OT thread, if you are willing, titled "OT: When was it significantly different?"

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~