MacDonald will be 200 years old in 2024. He had a fine weird imagination. Is there interest here in reading and discussing Lilith, his famous vampire novel, and selected other writings in 2024?

I'm certain that Lovecraft admired Lilith; in fact HPL knew two MacDonald versions thereof. David Lindsay, author of A Voyage to Arcturus, was also an admirer, I believe. I recommend the Johannesen volume Lilith: First and Final, which may still be in print. The Johannesen editions of MacDonald were made by a family enterprise in Whitethorn, California, giving readers the chance to read everything by MacDonald in sturdy hardcover editions with sewn signatures at a good price.

Other works by MacDonald that we might read include some Gothic short stories and the two Goblin books for children, etc.

I don't know if CAS read MacDonald, but I would think he would have. MacDonald is sometimes regarded as a successor to Coleridge and Poe. I have a book on de la Mare (not yet read -- I want to read more de la Mare!) that connects him with MacDonald too.

Let's see if there's ED interest in a MacDonald reading project.

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MacDonald will be 200 years old in 2024. He had a
> fine weird imagination. Is there interest here in
> reading and discussing Lilith, his famous vampire
> novel, and selected other writings in 2024?
> I'm certain that Lovecraft admired Lilith; in fact HPL knew two MacDonald versions thereof. David Lindsay, author of A Voyage to Arcturus, was also an admirer, I believe.
> I don't know if CAS read MacDonald, but I would think he would have.
> Let's see if there's ED interest in a MacDonald reading project.

In one of the Lovecraft criticism annuals Robert H. Waugh's essay

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MacDonald will be 200 years old in 2024. He had a
> fine weird imagination. Is there interest here in
> reading and discussing Lilith, his famous vampire
> novel, and selected other writings in 2024?
> I'm certain that Lovecraft admired Lilith; in fact HPL knew two MacDonald versions thereof. David Lindsay, author of A Voyage to Arcturus, was also an admirer, I believe.
> I don't know if CAS read MacDonald, but I would think he would have.
> Let's see if there's ED interest in a MacDonald reading project.

I wonder if Smith would have preferred PHANTASTES to LILITH. Also, in one of the Lovecraft criticism annuals Robert H. Waugh mentions another McDonald story, "The Princess and the Goblin". The upper story of a house where the grandmother of the Princess lives connects to "cosmic affinities" (218). McDonald then takes this in a whole new direction in LILITH, but "in both cases the narrow smallness of daily life is contrasted to a life that is more spacious and significant, binding together the present and the past..." (218). But this garret room terrifies the narrator. How do you interpret the mirror, which sets in motion a return to origins, would be my question.

jkh

Hard to say, but I would guess that Smith would prefer Lilith, which is a weird vampire story, a tale of multiple dimensions with a masterpiece of macabre humor in which skeletons of dead people who, in life, had been High Society types, are dancing and chaffing each other about the condition at which they have arrived. Phantastes is impressive too, but I'd say Lilith is about twice as good -- anyway that's approximately the ratio of my rereadings.

The opening chapters of Lilith give us a delightful haunted library as well as the attic with the mirror-doorway.

Yet, despite all the elements you've mentioned, it surprised me to find no mention of MacDonald in Clark Ashton Smith's letters. Smith's closest friends in his younger years, Samuel Loveman and George Sterling, may not have even particularly admired "Phantastes", which was published over 35 years before LILITH. Both novels were reprinted in one volume in 1964. My copy is the 1979 printing, which a friend gave me. Reading them back-to-back, sort of, I didn't come away with the sense that the earlier book was about half as good as you put it, but it certainly is less encumbered by the stylistic weaknesses C.S. Lewis described in his biographical intro. The first few chapters are tremendous; I should read them again! I like narratives that analyze philosophical resignation, such as Bryce Walton's novelette "Too Late for Eternity". Anyway, the fact that PHANTASTES was such an important influence on the young C.S. Lewis is proof of Macdonald's prowess.

jkh

Kipling Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dale Nelson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > MacDonald will be 200 years old in 2024. He had
> a
> > fine weird imagination. Is there interest here
> in
> > reading and discussing Lilith, his famous
> vampire
> > novel, and selected other writings in 2024?
> > I'm certain that Lovecraft admired Lilith; in
> fact HPL knew two MacDonald versions thereof.
> David Lindsay, author of A Voyage to Arcturus, was
> also an admirer, I believe.
> > I don't know if CAS read MacDonald, but I would
> think he would have.
> > Let's see if there's ED interest in a MacDonald
> reading project.
>
> I wonder if Smith would have preferred PHANTASTES
> to LILITH. Also, in one of the Lovecraft criticism
> annuals Robert H. Waugh mentions another McDonald
> story, "The Princess and the Goblin". The upper
> story of a house where the grandmother of the
> Princess lives connects to "cosmic affinities"
> (218).

>McDonald then takes this in a whole new
> direction in LILITH, but "in both cases the narrow
> smallness of daily life is contrasted to a life
> that is more spacious and significant, binding
> together the present and the past..." (218). But
> this garret room terrifies the narrator. How do
> you interpret the mirror, which sets in motion a
> return to origins, would be my question.

All this brings to mind the ultra-dimensional aspect in HPL's Dreams in The Witch House.

Is there any connection, either in narrative influence (one author's work directly inspires another's work with similar characteristics, as in the authors who are influenced by the mythos, but on a much smaller scale), or simply in planting an intellectual seed that grew in its own way.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 14 Jul 23 | 10:31AM by Sawfish.

Sawfish, as many times as I've read "The Dreams in the Witch-House" and Lilith, that possible connection never has occurred to me -- but it seems very plausible. I like it!

Kipling, to put my remark about rereadings of the two romances in perspective, I've read Phantastes three times -- perhaps with increasing appreciation. But I've read Lilith seven times (plus the first draft once). So these are both among my favorite works of fantasy over about 55 years of reading such books for adult readers.

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish, as many times as I've read "The Dreams in
> the Witch-House" and Lilith, that possible
> connection never has occurred to me -- but it
> seems very plausible. I like it!
>
> Kipling, to put my remark about rereadings of the
> two romances in perspective, I've read Phantastes
> three times -- perhaps with increasing
> appreciation. But I've read Lilith seven times
> (plus the first draft once). So these are both
> among my favorite works of fantasy over about 55
> years of reading such books for adult readers.
Okay, Dale, I see your point of comparison as partly subjective. The friend who gifted me the book has read Moby Dick 3 times, but at 8 readings you surely hold the record for rereadings of LILITH. If I read two novels by the same author twice, I'm unlikely to be rating one as significantly better than the other (At the Mountains of Madness and The Case of Charles Dexter Ward for example). Although the plot of the latter is given away by that misplaced prefacing quotation.
Sawfish, there's a bloated rat with human features in J. Sheridan Le Fanu's tale, "An Account of Some Strange Disturbances in Aungier Street", so Lovecraft borrowed from Le Fanu, yet failed to include any discussion of him in his otherwise excellent study "Supernatural Horror in Literature". Curious. An anti-Irish bias, perhaps, which is funny when you consider how Irish authors loom so large in the history of English literature-- maybe that was it. HPL also borrowed from Bierce, consciously or not, in his very minor story "He", but that was composed spontaneously in a New York park. Such tracing of influence led one commentator, I forget who, to describe his fiction as "too redolent of the Lamp". You can't say that about Smith!
Dale, regarding C.S.Lewis's introduction to the 1964 edition of the two MacDonald romances, I think Lewis talks out of both sides of his mouth here: "The texture of his writing as a whole is undistinguished, at times fumbling. Bad lulpit traditions cling to it; there is sometimes a nonconformist verbosity, sometimes an old Scotch weakness for florid ornament (it runs right through them from Dunbar to the Waverly novels), sometimes an over-sweetness picked up from Novalis" ("Introduction" pg.8). Lewis and Lovecraft had something in common as critics, methinks.

jkh



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 14 Jul 23 | 07:00PM by Kipling.

Kipling, I didn't intend any serious comparative critical comment with my remark about how many times I've read those two romances.

The negative Lewis remarks ("undistinguished, fumbling") apply to MacDonald's many novels in the mode of familiar Victorian realism. The introduction you're citing was drawn from George MacDonald: An Anthology.* Deprived by the publishers (of the 2 romances in 1 volume edition) of its context, it seems it can be misleading. As far as I know, Lewis had nothing to do with the one-volume edition of Phantastes and Lilith, which appeared after his death. He thought MacDonald generally wrote much better as a fantasist-romancer than as a novelist.

I've read several of the novels and think of Annals of a Quiet Neighbourhood with affection. It's perhaps a little like Trollope. The best of MacDonald's novels is, I believe, in the opinion of a few critics, the one called Sir Gibbie, which Twain liked. In fact, I've seen somewhere that the two authors considered doing a collaboration. I read Sir Gibbie about 35 years ago & mean to reread it sometime. The opening few chapters of Wilfrid Cumbermede are really appealing narrative.

*The anthology is a compilation of passages drawn from non-fantasy writings by MacDonald, selected for their insights. MacDonald frankly preached in his novels -- at least some of them. I haven't read all of them and don't expect to. Of the novels, the one that might appeal most to ED folk is the short novel The Portent, a pleasant exercise in the Gothic mode.

The fantasies, for the most part, do not preach. The exception that comes to mind is "The Wise Woman" aka "The Lost Princess," which I thought was rather unsatisfactory when I read it many years ago. I wrote a long criticism of it framed as an "open letter to C. S. Lewis," who had ranked it with the other fantasies. But in any event the anthology has no excerpts from the fantasies although Lewis regards them as MacDonald's best work.

Dale: Thanks for clearing that up for me.
I recently read Edith Birkhead's 1921 study THE TALE OF TERROR, which combined with Lovecraft's treatise fairly covers the field. So, if sufficiently gothic, I will give MacDonald's "The Portent" a try.

jkh

There's a reprint of The Portent from the late 1970s with a nice frontispiece by Maurice Sendak. It's not a great little novel, but I enjoyed it.

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's a reprint of The Portent from the late
> 1970s with a nice frontispiece by Maurice Sendak.
> It's not a great little novel, but I enjoyed it.

I want to read "The Flight of the Shadow" as well as an essay of MacDonald's accompanying THE PORTENT. Is it true that there is a 40-page autobiographical digression in "The Portent"? If so, and if it was not a part of the original 3-part serialization that MacDonald expanded for book publication, it would be a case of the shorter original being more unified, as with M.P. Shiel's THE PURPLE CLOUD. That original version was published along with Shiel's novel THE EMPRESS OF THE EARTH (which I mean to read sometime) and some stories, by the Reynolds Morse Foundation, also in 1979, coincidentally! Thanks for the information, Dale. I was just curious about that reviewer's comment.

jkh

Kipling, it's 19 years since my last (3rd) reading of The Portent, which I think I will save for a 4th reading during the "Year of MacDonald" coming up in 2024. I'm not familiar with a difference of editions thereof. What I have is a reprint with an introduction by Glenn Edward Sadler that does speak of autobiographical elements in the short novel. The Flight of the Shadow -- I don't have that one, nor have I read it, but I have a sense that it was a novel MacDonald published just before Lilith... Yes, I see it was published in 1891, so a few years before Lilith. An essay by GM accompanying The Portent? Can you provide more information?

Yes, GM's essays, "The Fantastic Imagination" and "The Imagination: Its Functions and Its Culture" appear in a book I've requested from my local library. Volume One of a series of paperbacks (2008) reprinting his best fantasy works. Includes "The Portent", "At the Back of the North Wind" and "The Flight of the Shadow". I should have been more specific. The series of 3 large paperbacks is entitled "The Fantastic Imagination of George MacDonald".

jkh



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17 Jul 23 | 02:15PM by Kipling.

Ah, I see, thanks. I have those two essays in one form or another, I'm sure.

In one of them he imagines someone asking what a fairy tales is, and he suggests that he or she just read Undine. As far as I can tell, that story has never been mentioned, let alone discussed, here. Of course it's not a horror story.

I don't think I'll wait till 2024 to take a look at The Flight of the Shadow.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17 Jul 23 | 02:35PM by Dale Nelson.