Re: Red Death: Class Consciousness in Bram Stoker's "The Burial of the Rats"
Posted by:
Sawfish (IP Logged)
Date: 25 August, 2023 04:54PM
Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Then basically, for the sake of this thread and
> > previous ones dealing with yea-sayers and
> > nay-sayers, a "nay-sayer" is a post-modern
> > nihilist at some level?
>
>
> No, I wouldn't go along with that because I think
> there have been nay-sayers for many centuries
> before postmodernism. I mean, I'd probably see
> much in Eastern tradition as nay-saying -- "there
> are those who'd have said that mere existence is
> damnation, basically. Democritus may have been a
> nay-sayer. The Manichees were, if this passage
> quoted in Wikipedia is correct:
>
> "The pain suffered by the imprisoned
> Light-Particles in the whole of the visible
> universe, on the other hand, was real and
> immanent. This was symbolized by the mystic
> placing of the Cross whereby the wounds of the
> passion of our souls are set forth. ...This
> mystica crucifixio was present in every tree,
> herb, fruit, vegetable and even stones and the
> soil."
>
> And around Shakespeare's day I suppose Christopher
> Marlowe was a nay-sayer, and so on.
This is really quite a topic (yea-say/nay-say) when given some thought.
So at this point in western history we have modernism, followed closely by post-modernism, and in fact both lines of thought co-exist, with post-modernism superseding, but not entirely eradicating modernism.
Right here it would be good to define terms philosophically. Simply put, modernism was the positive reaction to the flowering of the enlightenment. Those subscribing to it were humanists, and they tended to regard mankind, and its positive accomplishments, as signal that everything was possible and the mankind would evolve ever "higher". In some sense they saw Mankind as a benevolent godhead.
Simplified, modernism is what you encountered at the 1950s Tomorrowland in the SCal version of Disneyland. The Jetsons was a cutesy cartoon version of the modernists' expectancy for mankind's future. Everything would be *better*.
Post-modernism was the recognition--doubtless by those who had earlier thought of themselves as modernists--that the always upward trajectory of humankind's development was not coming to pass, or at least not coming to pass without significant steps *backward* toward a newer and more efficient savagery. Probably the two world wars, as considered shortly after their conclusion, when the death camps, the ruins, and the victims of aerial bombing were still fresh on the pages of Life magazine and other photo-news sources, was responsible in part.
[A short observation here is in order. These same Life pictorial volumes were in my elementary school's library, and I can still remember paging thru them more than once. I was likely 7-10 years old. It was meaningless to me, but one thing for sure: it was the world that I occupied, along with my family and everyone else. The more puzzling part was that the camps were labeled as the results of evil, while the ruins of Hiroshima, or the piled, charred corpses of the Tokyo firebombing, were labeled as regrettable artifacts of our will to save the world from evil.
*That's* my introduction to post-modernism, in a nutshell.]
So given this, you can readily see what motivates today's nay-sayers. For today's yea-sayers, I'd think that they must necessarily be motivated by faith. And this dichotomy holds true for the modernism/post-modernism era.
But what motivated nay-sayers of the distant past, prior to the Enlightenment? Was it also belief, but in a less-than-good deity? Or was it lack of belief? It would be interesting to figure that out.
--Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~