im just wondering if anyone knows whether or not mr. smith read some of jack vance's dying earth stories? if im right he died in 1961 and vance's first dying earth tales were published in 1950, though it seems like smith never acknowledged their existence as far as im aware.. anyone know otherwise?

Clark had read Vance, and I believe Leiber sent him a copy of something I think was a paraphrastic of "America" ( amorica, amoricca, amorriicoh? reminding him of his use of "hummurquania" in CAS tale) - it arrived in a brown rapper while I was visiting as I recall.

You may also want to read Don Herron's fine essay, "The Double Shadow: The Influence of Clark Ashton Smith" in Tim Underwood and Chuck Miller, eds.) JACK VANCE (Writers of the 21st Century Series). TAplinger, 1980.

Jim

calonlan Wrote:
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> Clark had read Vance, and I believe Leiber sent
> him a copy of something I think was a paraphrastic
> of "America" ( amorica, amoricca, amorriicoh?
> reminding him of his use of "hummurquania" in CAS
> tale) - it arrived in a brown rapper while I was
> visiting as I recall.

Abercrombie Station? Or has anyone any ideas?

I have often wondered if Smith might have read and how he would have reacted to Vance's The Dying Earth. With its vivid imagery. I used to think that these two writers are so closely connected, with Smith's obvious influence on this book and all. But I don't know anymore... They also have the same sardonic sense of loss. But still. They are very different. I think Smith would have found Vance very gifted, but I am not so sure he would have appreciated Vance's frivolously humorous screwball disposition in story events. In fact, I don't think he would have liked it at all. Smith is deeply spiritual, while Vance is much more materialistic in outlook. Although I am not with this saying that Vance is a shallow person; he has the cosmic perspective, great wisdom, and artistic passion. But somehow seems to want to hide this in the background, so as not to appear an unpractical dreamer.

Knygatin,

You are onto something. Is there anyone that CAS could be seen as closer to (then or now) than Jack Vance?

That CAS connection with The Dying Earth struck me when reading the Zothique and Hyperborea collections recently.

Although I have to admit that reading The Dying Earth ranks as one of the two most memorable reads of this old gentlemen's 45 years (the most memorable was being stuck at a drugstore during a snowstorm and picking up and reading "The King in Yellow" from cover to cover at the soda counter).

Steve

PS...that's 45 years of reading...not 45 years old. LOL

sverba Wrote:
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> Knygatin,
>
> You are onto something.


This is old, and pops up regularly like mushrooms, the two opposing sides exchanging a few simple sentences of passive denial and the Zothique argument, and then it disintegrates. It's almost like a politically incorrect subject where everyone freezes when it comes to the surface.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 1 Nov 08 | 07:00AM by Knygatin.

Didn't mean it as controversial - just if you like one you will probably like the other. Not sure why it comes off as PI? But I believe you.

steve

Knygatin Wrote:
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> Smith
> is deeply spiritual

Call me an idiot, but how is Smith "spiritual"? In my 35 or so years of studying Smith the idea has never once occurred to me. (I should mention that I consider it an insult to an author to accuse him of being "spiritual"---it is like saying he is a superstitious fool who writes nonsense about nonexistent things, or perhaps a con man who seeks to prey on weaker minds.)

Smith was an important influence on Vance. Not only has Vance said so himself; it is obvious from reading his work. The influence goes far beyond THE DYING EARTH. Smith at his best is a wry observer of human folly, a writer of comedies about social customs. So is Vance, although his humor is perhaps not quite as subtle as Smith's.

sverba Wrote:
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> Didn't mean it as controversial - just if you like
> one you will probably like the other. Not sure why
> it comes off as PI?
>
> steve

I'm sorry, as you can see I edited my post, and added that. I was too hasty, and PI isn't a good comparison. PI came from my frustration with there not being more discussion and treatises on the subject, and the deniers simply being silent and refusing to put forth rational arguments for their cause. Depending on which side they are on, they simply say, "No, I don't like Vance." or "Naw, I don't like horror." But I realize that to make an argument about similarities between the writers, you have to read them both. And if you're not attracted to a writer, you don't read him, and therefore can't make a thought out argument. For example, I never reflect over the connection between Poe and Smith/Lovecraft, because I don't read Poe.



Jojo Lapin X Wrote:
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> but how is Smith "spiritual"? In
> my 35 or so years of studying Smith the idea has
> never once occurred to me.


Not even once in 35 years?! That's strange. Well, I have read him for 20 years, and have had this impression all the time. It's good that we can have different opinions. That makes the discussion all the more interesting!

Here are my ideas. It's difficult to capture in words:

"Spiritual" may have different meanings I guess. I don't mean "religious", or one who "preaches". I mean spiritual in a more ingrained natural way. I mean a person who is not scientific in his approach and rationally analyses everything he sees and from that makes conscious self-aware calculated decisions. I mean a person who has a highly elevated mind of great sensitivty, who acts instinctively on deeper subconscious sources of wisdom. A person who is very fine-tuned to life's highest composition values and ecstatically appreciates the subtlest shades. Sees how everything connects. Who understands what the birds sing, and what the mystic patterns in the lichens actually mean in essence. A highly cultivated soul. Whose values are non-materialistic. In touch with his deepest creative core, instead of being hampered blind by layers upon layers of irrational emotional dross. A person, when you meet him, does not rush on in an awkward way, or is judgmental, moralizes, or jokes insensitively, but sees you in full and is well-mannered and balanced, and therefore makes you feel calm in his company rather than ill at ease. These are not qualities you get by a going to a university. It is something you are either born with, taught in very early years, or else will have to spend your entire life trying to attain.

That is a more general description of a possible way of being "spiritual", which I at least partly associate with Smith. Further, and specifically for Smith, his interest subject matter reveal his nature. Smith is the Star Treader. His soul jumps from star to star, from world to world. There is ethereal or astral travel in his tales. Incarnation is a frequent subject. Ghosts. Vampires. All part of the spiritual realm.

Compare to Lovecraft, who has a very scientific materialistic approach. Well aware of what, and why, he is doing. A true intellectual mind, as shown in his letters. While Smith is more of an artist's artist, who best expresses himself and his mind directly through creativity and art. (Lovecraft naturally also has a deeper instinctive, "spiritual", side, even if it was not in the forefront of his personality. Otherwise there would be no life to his tales.)

Life can't be simplified like this either. Of course there is more to it. And all persons are complex compositions of many parts. So I also fully agree about Smith as the intellectually sharp wry observer.

(Sorry I drifted away from Vance here. Too much to handle at once.)

Well said, Knygatin.