In the CAS poetry collection The Last Oblivion the editors, S. T. Joshi & David E. Schultz considerately included a glossary of archaic terms which often appear in Smith's poems. This is an excellent idea. The only drawback is that not every word or phrase could be included (I assume for reasons of space) and all too often, the word I was looking up was one that got left out.

When I need to look up an unknown word I go to my old Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, which is perfectly fine in most cases. CAS is not one of those cases, however. If I can't look up the definition of a word I try to glean the meaning of it from the context. Usually this works well enough. But not knowing the exact meaning is annoying, and one thing I've noticed about CAS is that he is a very precise writer who chooses the words he employs with great care.

My question, then, is: can anyone recommend a good dictionary of (or containing) archaic terms? (Preferably one which doesn't cost an arm & a leg).

Ken K. Wrote:
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> Man anyone recommend a good
> dictionary of (or containing) archaic terms?
The Oxford English Dictionary. You'll find 99% of Smith favorite terms there.

Phil

The OED is totally great, but not exactly cheap. Also, the full set almost needs its own bookcase! The compact edition is a bit hard to read even with the magnifying glass that is included with it, plus it is still three volumes each the size of a regular dictionary. I haven't looked at the concise version, but I would bet it leaves out a lot of archaic terms in favor of modern slang, words mostly used by English speakers in India, or whatever. The OED outfit is as PC as any other large venture.

I would recommend getting a used unabridged dictionary at a used book store. The older the better as they are more likely to use what space they have on archaic words instead of on the whole vat of new computer and technology related words. I have a Random House unabridged dictionary from the early 1960’s that I am pretty happy with, although I still have to go to my compact edition of the OED sometimes.

Does anyone have any experience with the OED on CD? It can’t really be considered cheap at $295, but I would consider getting it if it were easy to use. I really like my Merriam Webster CD, but for more obscure words it will tell you that they are only available through their online subscription service.


Chipougne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken K. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Man anyone recommend a good
> > dictionary of (or containing) archaic terms?
> The Oxford English Dictionary. You'll find 99% of
> Smith favorite terms there.
>
> Phil

weorcstan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I haven't looked at the
> concise version, but I would bet it leaves out a
> lot of archaic terms
It does, yes.

> Does anyone have any experience with the OED on
> CD?
I had access to the 1993 Macintosh edition back when I was finishing my lexicology PhD here at my local university and it had this wonderful tool: full text search, ie, search of one given word or expression even through the examples, quotations, etc. I guess it is even more interesting and user-friendly now.
The OED is also especially interesting regarding Smith because Smith used -- or so I understand, Calonlan will perhaps confirm -- the Oxford Unabridged Dictionary as his main source of inspiration as far as words are concerned.

>It can’t really be considered cheap at
> $295
I think some members here once said they used the online version, as subsribers or something. Anyone confirms?

I own the OED dictionary and the OED etymology dictionary - I bought these on ebay for less than $100 - it was then necessary to call the publishers who were happy to supply me with a patch to be able to use the older version on XP - It is quite adequate and lots of fun. However, if you have a problem with a particular word, write me. I am by training in my academic life, a philologist - (took a master class with both Robert Graves and JRR Tolkien a zillion years ago while a grad student at Syracuse Univ. Missed an opportunity to study with Lewis because he died that Oct. (61)

Many thanks to everyone for your help! This is the first site I've posted on and everyone has been tops in civility (even when disagreeing), helpfulness and wide-ranging knowledge.

Ken

Simplier solution...

www.dictionary.com

I have the CD version of the OED. While it is indeed costly, it is certainly easy to use and very comprehensive.

I've compiled a sort of dictionary of fantasy diction, the "fancy words" and so on, making dictionary-style entries with etymologies and definitions, and a generous helping of quotations from fantasy and other authors using the words. I have over 600,000 words worth of material all together. It includes many original scholarly discoveries.

I intend to extract material from this project to create a number of books; I could currently make at least two. One would be simply a sort of dictionary of fantasy diction, just giving the dictionary entries and only a small selection of quotations, to make a handy reference volume.

Another that I could create now would be titled _Weird Words: A Lovecraftian Lexicon_. It would be a large volume including many quotations, not just from Lovecraft but from other authors as well. In particular, I've gone over Clark Ashton Smith's work very thoroughly. Use of a word by CAS makes it "Lovecraftian" enough to justify inclusion.

While I do have a publisher willing to put out these volumes, they have taken on so many projects that it will be at least 2010 before they can put one out.

If there's any particular word that you're interested in, just ask and I'll post what I have on it.

Dan Clore

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"Tho-ag in Zhi-gyu slept seven Khorlo. Zodmanas zhiba. All Nyug bosom. Konch-hog not; Thyan-Kam not; Lha-Chohan not; Tenbrel Chugnyi not; Dharmakaya ceased; Tgenchang not become; Barnang and Ssa in Ngovonyidj; alone Tho-og Yinsin in night of Sun-chan and Yong-grub (Parinishpanna), &c., &c.,"
-- The Book of Dzyan.

Dear friends - The OED is available for download, can be often found used on EBAY - if it come with the original box it will have the phone number which gets you to OED tech help, and they will send you an installation patch for the newer windows like XP - Once loaded on your computer, updates are available inexpensively -

Well, coincidently, I just ordered the compact OED (2nd edition 1989); which is just one dense volume - essentially no English word which was used pre 1989 should have been omitted, and since CAS and his circle published their works well before this fairly recent date, even his most esoteric words (provided they weren't feigned on his part), should be present and correct. You could always get the earlier, '70s compact OED, which is two volumes, which is reasonably affordable on eBay. Also, the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary, which is effectively an abridgement than the full OED, and is 2 volumes long, would, I imagine, define most archaic words (I think if a word fell out of use pre 1700, then the likelihood of it being present is reduced).

Failing that (and my internal bibliphile cringes here), like a previous poster, dictionary.com is always a nice quick reference (so long as you can bear the guilt!).

Re the OED on CD -- I own an older version but it suffices well -- if you buy a used one on Ebay for example -- OED can be phoned and they will send you a link that will allow you to download it to a more advanced system -- this is precisely what I had to do, when I bought mine for about $20 on ebay auction.
However, if you can get an old library Webster's (the Hernia Edition as Clark and I called it), and the 1911 Brittanica (best ever for historians) and the 1895 Americana (likewise best for Historians of American minutiae - ie names of all city councilmen in Podunk circa whatever) --
These three references represent the Summa of Clark's earliest resources - this of course for a wider range of data than just vocabulary - (see items of local color in Arabian nights type tales around Constantinople)

clore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have the CD version of the OED. While it is
> indeed costly, it is certainly easy to use and
> very comprehensive.
>
> I've compiled a sort of dictionary of fantasy
> diction, the "fancy words" and so on, making
> dictionary-style entries with etymologies and
> definitions, and a generous helping of quotations
> from fantasy and other authors using the words. I
> have over 600,000 words worth of material all
> together. It includes many original scholarly
> discoveries.
>
> I intend to extract material from this project to
> create a number of books; I could currently make
> at least two. One would be simply a sort of
> dictionary of fantasy diction, just giving the
> dictionary entries and only a small selection of
> quotations, to make a handy reference volume.
>
> Another that I could create now would be titled
> _Weird Words: A Lovecraftian Lexicon_. It would be
> a large volume including many quotations, not just
> from Lovecraft but from other authors as well. In
> particular, I've gone over Clark Ashton Smith's
> work very thoroughly. Use of a word by CAS makes
> it "Lovecraftian" enough to justify inclusion.
>
> While I do have a publisher willing to put out
> these volumes, they have taken on so many projects
> that it will be at least 2010 before they can put
> one out.
>
> If there's any particular word that you're
> interested in, just ask and I'll post what I have
> on it.

If you do get around to publishing these, I would love to add them to my library.

It looks like the first volume from the project, Weird Words: A Lovecraftian Lexicon, may come out next year.

clore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It looks like the first volume from the project,
> Weird Words: A Lovecraftian Lexicon, may come out
> next year.

Wonderful news! I'll be looking forward to its release.

Excellent news, clore! Any specs yet on price, format, page count, etc? An introductory essay on the word choices of the weird tales writers would provide a nice context for this worthy project.

The publisher will be Hippocampus, but I don't have any other details to give, except that this book will be huge.

I'll be sure to post here when it's available.

I was cruising the Hippocampus Press website recently and was surprised and delighted to find a listing for Daniel Clore's long-awaited book Weird Words: a Lovecraftian Lexicon. In the words of Hippocampus:

The scholarly work of Daniel Clore is well known to Lovecraftians and weird fiction enthusiasts the world over. We are pleased to present the first gathering within covers of his philological endeavours. WEIRD WORDS is both a scholarly text with original discoveries, and, with its copious quotations, entertaining for the general reader.

This Cyclopean tome of recondite erudition contains dictionary-style entries giving eldritch etymologies and demoniac definitions of the outré words that pullulate in the teratologically fabulous diction of such fantaisistes as H.P. Lovecraft, Clark Ashton Smith, Robert E. Howard, and A. Merritt.

The price is $25.00 for a paperback of approx. 600 pages. It's scheduled for release this summer. I'm already salivating...

Awesome. I didn't know that they had finally announced the thing until I saw this message here.