jdworth wrote earlier, before taking up the cudgels:

Quote:

The only complaint I have with such books is when they are the only edition made available of a particular writer or work. That sort of thing does seem wrong to me, simply on a selfish level of being able to read a work for a reasonable price [...]

I have no idea why you are debating with me on this subject--force of habit, perhaps?

I intended the statements you find objectionable to fall entirely within the context of the statement you made earlier, and which I quote above. In other words, while it is true that I do not care for such limited edition "quality" presses, I couldn't care less whether they exist, or whether people are willing and able to spend hundreds of dollars on collectors' item books. I have a serious problem with them only when the titles are, as Jim says, not available from any other publisher in any other format.

Now, to supply the context of my original remarks that you omitted: I am objecting to such a publisher being the exclusive current publisher of CAS's prose poems.

And now, while we're at it, let's supply the context you omitted from my comments that are specifically critical of Centipede Press. I posted them after reviewing the site and not being able to find anything there priced less expensively than a $50 paperbound book. It was the fifty-or sixty-dollar paperbound books which prompted that particular post, and not the "art books". If you are now going to defend fifty-dollar paperbound books as "examples of the bookmaker's art", then, well, feel free, but don't expect to be taken seriously.

Jim:

Apologies, as I was editing my reply just as I saw your recent response, below.

Anyway, I understand your point, but I would say that the fault lies equally with the small presses. I can see no justification for fifty- or sixty-dollar paperbound books (and this applies to mainstream academic presses, as well, who are some of the worst offenders in this regard). I dearly love books, but, if times for print materials are really so hard that publishers can try to justify such prices even for paperbound works, then perhaps print does have to die.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 6 Sep 11 | 07:31AM by Absquatch.

Absquatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a serious problem with them only when the
> titles are, as Jim says, not available from any
> other publisher in any other format.

Which is a problem that needs to be laid at the door of other publishers. For the most part, the majors have failed to bring these works into print or back into print, leaving the small presses to take these risks.

When Bob Leman's and Jane Rice's books appeared from Midnight House some years ago, we had hoped that the welcome with which their announcement had been greeted would prompt someone to reissue them as readily accessible, affordable paperbacks within a few years. Instead, both books went out of print quickly and . . . stayed out of print. I have received queries about Bob Leman's book at least once a quarter for the last ten years, and all I can do is say "We are working on it", and point them towards the magazines and anthologies reprinting the tales individually. This is very frustrating.

We can all hope and pray that, as happened with Centipede's huge Kuttner/Moore collection, some other publisher will start reissuing less expensive trade editions of some of these books. I regret that Centipede's own trade paperback line did not seem to do well enough to be maintained, as I had hoped to see some of their smaller books printed in this format as well.


Jim

cathexis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Martinus,
>
> If you're willing I would like to know about this
> "Martinus version"
> as well as just what is being corrected. I have
> the current complete
> works from B&N as advertised here:
>
> HPL/B&N
>
>

The book you've got is riddled with errors -- in fact, it may be the worst-proofed book in Lovecraftian publishing. My errata list is available here: [www.hplovecraft.com]

All the errors on that list (except one that I discovered too late) will be corrected in the new printing, which should be distinguishable by some sort of acknowledgement of my input on the copyright page.

Jim:

I understand your point, but I would say that the fault lies equally with the small presses. I can see no justification for fifty- or sixty-dollar paperbound books (and this applies to mainstream academic presses, as well, who are some of the worst offenders in this regard). I dearly love books, but, if times for print materials are really so hard that publishers can try to justify such prices even for paperbound works, then perhaps print does have to die.

I did not address the paperback aspect because I have not seen them, save briefly, on the website itself. I don't recall whether or not they also included original artwork, were designed for longevity, etc., and until I do know the answer (which I could probably find out by looking at the site again, something I simply have lacked a moment to do properly) am not prepared to give an opinion on these. However, the latter part of your earlier statement was worded in such a way as to have a broader application, hence my addressing it as I did.

As for why I argue with you on this, I'm not at all sure it is an argument; it is a response of one perspective to another. You dislike such things intensely; I don't. I've had the advantage of seeing some of their books firsthand, and have been impressed; you aren't. I'm not attempting to change your (or anyone's) mind, but putting my own experiences and views out there for consideration; people will come to their own conclusions in their own fashion.

Jim: when I referred to such shoddy things, I was thinking in particular of books of an earlier era (of which I also have quite a few), things which can last a long time if handled gingerly, but which were designed as "reading matter" of the moment, for cheap consumption. These, too, have their place, in my view, same as the penny dreadfuls did, as they provided cheap entertainment for the majority. Literarily speaking, they may be pure (or nearly pure) garbage, but they do have their place in the spectrum and, again in my view, we (collectively) might be just a little poorer without even that bit of the variety. I would prefer it that they be produced better, and for modern publishing I don't see a reason to issue shoddy product costwise; but if it provides a pleasurable reading experience for some, then it has served its purpose, however much I personally would prefer they be of higher quality.

jdworth:

My point is simply that we don't have differing perspectives over the main issue at hand, which is whether it is a good thing when the high-priced collectors edition publishers essentially monopolize the market. It is the latter fact that I "intensely" dislike.

Martinus Wrote:
>
> The book you've got is riddled with errors -- in
> fact, it may be the worst-proofed book in
> Lovecraftian publishing. My errata list is
> available here:
> [www.hplovecraft.com]
> 0-%20Errata.PDF
>
> All the errors on that list (except one that I
> discovered too late) will be corrected in the new
> printing, which should be distinguishable by some
> sort of acknowledgement of my input on the
> copyright page.

Do we have a date for this new printing yet?

Absquatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jdworth:
>
> My point is simply that we don't have differing
> perspectives over the main issue at hand, which is
> whether it is a good thing when the high-priced
> collectors edition publishers essentially
> monopolize the market. It is the latter fact that
> I "intensely" dislike.

My apologies. The tone of some of the statements made above seemed (to me, at least) to have a broader scope, objecting to such houses, at least by implication, in general, rather than just in the area of their "monopolizing".

However, when it comes to the CAS prose-poems, I doubt this will be the case for any length of time either, even should they only be out in such an edition initially. Though Smith isn't garnering the sort of attention Howard or Lovecraft do (yet), there is a growing appreciation of his work among fans of the fantastic, and there are enough small presses out there which do produce affordable books, that someone is highly likely to fill that gap in reasonably short order....

I'm not sure what prose poem volume is being alluded to, but there is a very affordable paperback volume (I don't know about complete) of CAS's prose poems: "A Phantasy and Other Prose Poems," from Dodo Press, available on Amazon.

All I know is, if I buy it, "The Flower Devil" had better be in it, or someone will have to be sacrificed to the Voorqual....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 6 Sep 11 | 04:49PM by K_A_Opperman.

jdworth:

Quote:

My apologies. The tone of some of the statements made above seemed (to me, at least) to have a broader scope, objecting to such houses, at least by implication, in general, rather than just in the area of their "monopolizing".

No apologies needed. I did mention having a general dislike for such publishers, but I tried to make clear here--and could no doubt have done a better job--that what mainly concerned me was the prospect of seeing CAS's poems in prose relegated exclusively to such publishers.

As for the prose poems, themselves, I hope that you are right in your forecast.


K_A_Opperman:

If I am remembering correctly, Dodo is a print-on-demand outfit, and has come in for harsh words here. I recommend researching this forum and elsewhere before buying.

Absquatch--thanks for the advice. By the way--this is probably a stupid question--but are all the prose poems in the complete poetry volumes? And are they really complete in the strict sense?

No problem, K_A_.

As for CAS's prose poems, actually, none of them are in Hippocampus's so-called "complete poetry of" volumes, and this is a real sore point with me, and with others, as well, I imagine.

The primary edition of CAS's prose poems remains the Arkham House/Donald Sidney Fryer edition, but, to remain true to the theme of the thread, it is out of print and ridiculously over-priced in the used booksellers' market. I have a mildewed, stinky copy--for some reason, most used booksellers don't seem to think they need to report about odor as part of a book's condition--for which I paid far too much money on eBay, and which I ought to have returned.

The only other edition of the prose poems of which I am aware is the Necronomicon Press chapbook, which I have never seen. From the look of the photos I've viewed of it, however, the book appears to be as cheaply done as most of the others in that series (Aside: It seems hard to find a happy medium between the overly cheap and the overly elaborate in the world of fandom press, I think).

Finally, my understanding--and others here should correct me if I am wrong--is that anyone who owns the Arkham House volume and Strange Shadows (another over-priced book) owns all of CAS's prose poetry. I hope that a more recent edition, and an affordable one, will one day gather them all in one place.

No prose poems in the complete poetry? And I suppose they are probably left out of the complete fiction as well.... (could be wrong). These are unhappy facts, Absquatch.

One is included in the Complete Fantasies: "From the Crypts of Memory", as an appendix to vol. 1. I don't believe any others are, however. I don't recall what the proposed table of contents of India and Irony includes, but I don't recall them being there either....

Incidentally, the Necronomicon Press volume is also something which has become quite high secondhand. I would love to see a good, affordable edition of all these pieces made available, even though I have the volumes mentioned above, simply because I think some of these are among his best writing....

The English Assassin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Martinus Wrote:
> >
> > The book you've got is riddled with errors --
> in
> > fact, it may be the worst-proofed book in
> > Lovecraftian publishing. My errata list is
> > available here:
> >
> [www.hplovecraft.com]
>
> > 0-%20Errata.PDF
> >
> > All the errors on that list (except one that I
> > discovered too late) will be corrected in the
> new
> > printing, which should be distinguishable by
> some
> > sort of acknowledgement of my input on the
> > copyright page.
>
> Do we have a date for this new printing yet?

It's supposed to be in warehouses this week. Unfortunately, I don't know of any other way of distinguishing it from the error-riddled printings than that mention of my name on the copyright page. I suspect that since B&N apparently counts it as just a new printing, it'll have the same ISBN as the printing you don't want.