I really enjoyed Hawthorne's The House of the Seven Gables, although it only has subtle supernatural components. I suppose it is a Gothic, but doesn't feel dusty to me. It is so damned well written, and engaging. Has marvelous insights.

Knygatin, how pleasant it is to hear from another admirer of The House of the Seven Gables!

Here's Charles Williams's War in Heaven, quite a good thriller.

[gutenberg.net.au]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 7 Jun 21 | 05:41PM by Dale Nelson.

Knygatin Wrote:
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> I really enjoyed Hawthorne's The House of the
> Seven Gables, although it only has subtle
> supernatural components. I suppose it is a Gothic,
> but doesn't feel dusty to me. It is so damned well
> written, and engaging. Has marvelous insights.

By that standard, I can't see any reason why you would not enjoy UNCLE SILAS. Not that they are the same or anything, so no guarantees of course.

I've read Uncle Silas a couple of times, and maybe enjoyed it more the second time.

I love nearly all of Jack Vance! The most distinctive prose stylist in sf and f.

Do you like The Book of Jade by David Park Barnitz? I have not read it. I believe his dark poetry has been compared to that of Thomas Lovell Beddoes, Charles Baudelaire, and Clark Ashton Smith.

There have been several discussions recently about the creeping socialist madness, multicultural confusion, and gender insanity, gradually overtaking modern US and Europe. Although I think it is neither madness (except in those who have been fooled and misled by it) nor an accidental slip of direction, but instead a devilishly well calculated and intentional attack on Western Civilization, or more specifically, on white Europeans. It is a slowly ongoing methodic genocide, right before our eyes, and we are drawn into it whether we choose to or not. People tend to laugh these matters off or shake their heads, because the patterns are so absurd. But it is deadly serious. (Please put any further comments to this in a more appropriate thread.)

Related to this I would like to mention a little known science fiction book by the great L. P. Hartley. It is called Facial Justice (1960) (I believe it influenced Vonnegut to write "Harrison Bergeron" a year later.) It is about a future socialist society of extreme equality, where everybody must think the same thoughts, and no one is allowed to look better or be more successful than anyone else. Has anyone here read it?

"Hartley is the master of the double entendre and sinister talk at cross purposes." - Bleiler, The Guide to Supernatural Fiction

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> a little known science fiction book by the great L. P.
> Hartley. It is called Facial Justice (1960) (I
> believe it influenced Vonnegut to write "Harrison
> Bergeron" a year later.) It is about a future
> socialist society of extreme equality, where
> everybody must think the same thoughts, and no one
> is allowed to look better or be more successful
> than anyone else.
>
>

There is a line of similar stories breaching this topic, that likely inspired each other. (Or came about independently, from the authors's intelligent observations of their times.) :

Nineteen Eighty-Four (1949) by George Orwell
Fahrenheit 451 (1953) by Ray Bradbury
Facial Justice (1960) by L. P. Hartley
"Harrison Bergeron" (1961) by Kurt Vonnegut
...

Do you know of more?

Respectfully, there is nothing socialist or Marxist about today’s divisive identity-politics bullsh*t. It is absolutely not about equality; it is about resentment, and I can assure you there is nothing orchestrated, calculated, systematic or genuinely purpose-driven about it either. It is centred on a bunch of opportunists who have managed to channel resentment in such a way that it makes them good money and gets them book signings and well-remunerated speaking opportunities.

It got started in the 1970s, when humanities professors began to realise they had nothing to say anymore, and started spouting unadulterated nonsense, which they chose to call “theory”. This more or less coincided with the publication of Edward Said’s book Orientalism, which suddenly made whining about colonialism fashionable and marketable.

The gates of Hell truly opened with the publication of Spivak’s essay (I’m using the word very loosely here) ‘Can the Subaltern Speak’. Try to read it, if you dare (hint: that’s actually impossible, which is the whole point):

[abahlali.org]

And just to hammer home the fundamentally unprincipled nature of these demagogues, notice how our postmodernist friends immediately close ranks when one of their little club is accused of sexual violence (female-on-male this time):

[en.m.wikipedia.org]

These people are garbage, with garbage ‘ideas’, and they’ve taken over what used to be called the political ‘left wing’ (which once concerned itself with looking after the rights and well-being of people who have to work for a living, but which was shamelessly hijacked and emptied of any meaning or purpose), but they are not some massive conspiracy. They just want their slice of the pie, and if using young people’s minds for a toilet to get there, or cause a second civil war in the US, that’s fine with them.

“I’m a tenured professor, who lives in a huge house, has a sinecure for a job and regularly gets interviewed on TV and in the New York Times, but I’m soooooo oppressed. Pass the champagne, darling.”

Dissent has been commodified. You really cannot get more capitalist than that.

(Oops, I went a bit political there despite my earlier promise. Won’t happen again! Until the next time…)

Good reading list, by the way. I’d add the 1986 Twilight Zone episode ‘To See the Invisible Man’. It’s basically about cancel culture.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18 Jul 21 | 07:44AM by Avoosl Wuthoqquan.

Well-said, Avoosl. I tend toward your view that it is not centrally orchestrated, but it is instead an organic, evolutionary phenomenon nurtured on an excess of empathy and guilt--one of which, like fine Scotch whisky, is somewhat beneficial in moderation.

Can you guess which one it is? :^)

Here's a section of an article by a social commentator, David Cole, who is often marginal--vain, self-aggrandizing, pompous--but at least he's thinking, and he sometimes stumbles upon decent analyses.

Here, he creates the literary conceit that the current decline of the West is much like the elephant that the three blind men cop a feel on. He then s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-s the analogy to make the elephant the subject (rather than the object) of the anology.

Quote:

David Cole:
If you really want to understand the debasement and destruction of Western civilization, you gotta learn to see the entire elephant. Yes, antiwhiteness is one limb. Marxism/socialism is another. The leftists who exploited Covid to pay people to stay home, for example. That wasn’t race-based. But CRT? That is. Some folks want to destroy the West by disenfranchising whites. Others want to do it by enacting race-neutral economic policies that cripple the incentive to work.
Like an elephant, all these parts function in tandem. The elephant acts as one beast, the trunk doing its part, the legs doing theirs, the tail swatting flies, the ears flapping in the wind. Conspiracy-minded rightists have long clung to the “octopus” meme: a central brain calculatedly extending its tentacles in service of its devious plan. The elephant analogy is far more accurate. A number of moving parts working in concert. Sure, an elephant has a brain, but it doesn’t have self-awareness. An elephant is essentially on autopilot. Obviously, someone or something created the elephant. Depending on your personal beliefs, you can ascribe that to God or evolution. But putting the creator aside, the elephant is now self-sustaining. It needs no puppet master to feed, defend itself, and grow.

I can't prove a negative like "it's NOT a global conspiracy." I can, however, conceive of, and begin to understand, the present rotten mess as a confluence of historical events/trends, evolving as it goes along.

--Sawfish

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"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*SIGH*

Knygatin Wrote:
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> *SIGH*


It's a lot like a snake, don't you agree? ;^)

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Platypus, apropos werewolf stories, have you (or anyone else here) read, and enjoyed, Jack Williamson's novel Darker Than You Think? I read it as a kid, found it atmospheric, but didn't really take it to heart.

I’ve known of that tale for years but never had a copy or read it.

Or perhaps Jack Williamson's "With Folded Hands" and The Humanoids, his famous works about robots (not as famous as Asimov, ... but anyway.)?