Re: The Super thread of literature, art, music, life, and the universe in general
Posted by:
Sawfish (IP Logged)
Date: 8 March, 2021 07:15PM
Platypus Wrote:
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> Cathbad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I do remember seeing people whipping themselves
> as
> > they climbed Croagh Patrick on the news. It
> stuck
> > in my mind because I was a kid and it seemed
> > pretty weird. My memory is that the people were
> > mostly elderly or maybe people with religious
> > manias - ie, not representative of the Catholic
> > faith per se. How accurate that memory might be
> is
> > a moot point, but just because it isn’t on
> the
> > internet doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
>
> I suspect your memory is playing tricks on you.
> 50 years is a long time. Maybe what you saw was
> that dourly-intoned 1970s clip where the hostile
> Irish announcer calls it "masochistic" among other
> things. Then, as the decades passed, your
> imagination filled in the blanks of your fading
> memory. Such things happen.
>
> But even if it did occur, it can hardly have been
> as routine as you suggested ("... there were
> always a few eejits ..."). Given the sheer number
> of video clips that exist of the Croagh Patrick
> tradition, there ought to be some video or
> documentary evidence of these ever-present
> eejits.
>
> > To put the scourges etc in context. I went to a
> > secondary school where beatings and canings
> were
> > pretty routine (corporal punishment wasn’t
> > banned by the EU until 1979).
>
> I attended some primary school in Ireland in the
> early 70s, first in a modest town, and then in a
> more rural area. The only corporal punishment I
> recall, from the rural school, was the old trusty
> ruler on the palm. I think I was a victim of
> this, but I cannot for the life of me recall what
> I was being punished for. I don't think I ever
> knew. Oddly enough, I have a far more vivid
> memory of being given a time-out style punishment
> in the town school, and there, I actually remember
> what I was being punished for, because it was
> explained to me. I don't know if that illustrates
> the ineffectiveness of corporal punishment, or
> merely the importance of telling kids what they
> are being punished for.
>
> > So the idea of a shop selling ecclesiastical
> > supplies also stocking scourges isn’t really
> > that unlikely. Or at least, it isn’t to me.
>
> Sorry, but this sounds to me like guesswork,
> inspired by hostility.
>
> In the early 70s, I had a number of vacations to a
> Cistercian Monastery, where my mother's brother
> was a monk and priest. Me and my brother got to
> stay in the monastery, while my mom and sisters
> had to stay in the guest house. Me and my brother
> loved it. The monastery was a beautiful place
> then, though it is now a shadow of what it was.
All Hallows?
Great story!!!
I've liked the experience of the narrative and the style with which it is related so well that I've read it maybe 5-10 times.
Memorable stuff...
> There was a guest shop where a large variety of
> souvenirs and trinkets and religious items were
> sold. Many of these items were made by the monks
> themselves. I cannot remember any scourges.
>
> Now, I can anticipate you saying "ROTFL, they
> would not sell it in the GUEST SHOP". But that
> only begs the question where they would sell it.
> 1970 is not so long ago, so no doubt if I am
> wrong, someone will shortly be able to produce
> some evidence of such items being sold in
> religious shops.
>
> Seems to me, that if you were desperate to abuse
> yourself and wanted such an item, you would buy a
> dog whip or a horse lash from an animal handler,
> not in an Ecclesiastical Supply Store.
>
> > Cruelty - more specifically fear - was a key
> > component of Irish Catholic culture (if not -
> > sadly - its defining feature); fear of exposure
> > and disgrace for some sort of misdemeanour,
> fear
> > of hell, fear of a beating etc. I have no
> > particular beef with the Catholic church
> (people
> > were complicit) but I have no illusions about
> it
> > either.
>
> Well ... if there was a false memory it is easy to
> see what inspired it.
--Sawfish
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"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
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