Platypus mentioned RLS’s “ The Merry Men,” which I don’t think I’ve read before. Let’s read it. There are at least four more RLSs to read after that one, too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10 Aug 21 | 09:32PM by Dale Nelson.

Sawfish Wrote:
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> Here's something I'm trying to recall and
> evaluate...
>
> While there is no direct reference, or even
> strong, clear implication, do you think that
> Gray's power over MacFarlane is a) Gray is a
> sometime supplier of corpses to MacFarlane, like
> the two Irish "ghouls"; b) is not a supplier, but
> knows how MacFarlane obtains some of the corpses,
> and is using it as a point of blackmail; or c)
> both?

I would say (d). None of the above. Gray is a stranger, and knows Macfarlane by another name, "Toddy". My guess therefore, is that he knows him by other, unconnected, sins, from another place and time. He is blackmailing Macfarlane about something (never mind what) and Gray's only connection to the body snatch murders are that he is about to become a victim.

I would guess that, for all Macfarlane's brave talk about being a "lion", he has never directly committed murder before. Gray is his first. His only guilt in the Burke-and-Hare killings was to look the other way.

So I guess it makes psychological sense that Macfarlane, like Fettes, is now haunted. Whether he is literally haunted, or whether there is a rational explanation, is I guess up to the reader.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10 Aug 21 | 10:28PM by Platypus.

Sawfish Wrote:
> E.g., we have Gray appear in the place of the old
> lady to terrorize the two.
>
> Why not Jane Galbraith?

I guess because she was murdered (directly) by the 2 Irishmen (who are evidently the infamous Burke and Hare) and not by Fettes or Macfarlane.

> Also, this causes Fettes to slovenly drinking, but
> MacFarlane hardly misses a beat.

Seems to me they were both engaged in slovenly drinking, at least on that climactic night.

> Really, it makes much more sense as a guy being
> driven to drink by his inescapably guilty
> conscience. We already know that MacFarlane has no
> conscience, so that fact that none of these
> killings causes him a negative turn in his life is
> very plausible.

It's not clear to me that Macfarlane has no conscience. He talks big at times, but then again, so does Fettes.

> But if it is indeed Fettes trying to forget seeing
> Gray, all messed up, in lieu of the old lady, to
> my mind MacFarlane should be affe4cted every bit
> as much as Fettes. There is no indication that
> MacFarlane, callous as he is, would be unaffected
> by an unarguably tangible supernatural horror.

Initially, Macfarlane does seem to be far less affected than Fettes is. But Macfarlane's reaction to Fette's final question suggests that Macfarlane is indeed deeply affected, if maybe in a different way.

> Yes. Not a compelling tale, so far as I'm
> concerned.

The climax, taken by itself, is a bit weak. But I have this image in my head, inspired by Macfarlane's reaction to Fette's last question, that Macfarlane is still to this day haunted by that Thing, still driving around in the seat of that horse and cart.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10 Aug 21 | 11:04PM by Platypus.

I've started The Merry Men. The title, itself, is a grim irony, we come to find out.

The first chapter does a remarkable and compelling job of establishing the physical setting. In a way, it feels otherworldly, in the sense that while it conforms to known physical and geographical properties, putting them all together in combination makes for a place like I've never seen. It is isolated physical, and also temporally.

I've gotten as far as the anomalous objects and materials on Aros, possibly artifacts from the Espiritu Santo.

Very intriguing thus far.

--Sawfish

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"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
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Platypus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish Wrote:
> > E.g., we have Gray appear in the place of the
> old
> > lady to terrorize the two.
> >
> > Why not Jane Galbraith?
>
> I guess because she was murdered (directly) by the
> 2 Irishmen (who are evidently the infamous Burke
> and Hare) and not by Fettes or Macfarlane.
>
> > Also, this causes Fettes to slovenly drinking,
> but
> > MacFarlane hardly misses a beat.
>
> Seems to me they were both engaged in slovenly
> drinking, at least on that climactic night.
>
> > Really, it makes much more sense as a guy being
> > driven to drink by his inescapably guilty
> > conscience. We already know that MacFarlane has
> no
> > conscience, so that fact that none of these
> > killings causes him a negative turn in his life
> is
> > very plausible.
>
> It's not clear to me that Macfarlane has no
> conscience. He talks big at times, but then
> again, so does Fettes.
>
> > But if it is indeed Fettes trying to forget
> seeing
> > Gray, all messed up, in lieu of the old lady,
> to
> > my mind MacFarlane should be affe4cted every
> bit
> > as much as Fettes. There is no indication that
> > MacFarlane, callous as he is, would be
> unaffected
> > by an unarguably tangible supernatural horror.
>
> Initially, Macfarlane does seem to be far less
> affected than Fettes is. But Macfarlane's
> reaction to Fette's final question suggests that
> Macfarlane is indeed deeply affected, if maybe in
> a different way.
>
> > Yes. Not a compelling tale, so far as I'm
> > concerned.
>
> The climax, taken by itself, is a bit weak. But I
> have this image in my head, inspired by
> Macfarlane's reaction to Fette's last question,
> that Macfarlane is still to this day haunted by
> that Thing, still driving around in the seat of
> that horse and cart.

You know, maybe the most economical explanation for my interpretation is that I'm an overly enthusiastic fan of unreliable POV, which probably was not a common narrative mode of the era.

So what I'm doing is a lot like what happens in liberal arts colleges nowadays when evaluating historical figures: not using the standards of their day, but using today's standards.

...but that's OK, because *I'm* the one doing it... ;^)

--Sawfish

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"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
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Whoa!

About to go out on a speculative limb, here...

I'm only as far as the first conversation between the narrator and Mary, but there are hints that maybe this story has as its central impetus the distasteful practice of the inhabitants of isolated parts of the Scottish/Irish coasts who lured ships into lethal waters using false lights, etc., then robbed the wrecks, killing the survivors, if any.

So this situation takes ordinary, ostensibly God-fearin', rural fisherfolk, and makes them into cold-blooded killers for personal gain.

I'm eager to see if that's where this story goes.

--Sawfish

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"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
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I'll start reading this story this afternoon!

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Platypus mentioned RLS’s “ The Merry Men,”
> which I don’t think I’ve read before. Let’s
> read it. There are at least four more RLSs to
> read after that one, too.

I had read the tale before, and I just read it again. I found I really enjoyed the spooky atmosphere of the tale, much as I did before. On the other hand, the ending felt just as disappointing as I remembered, if not moreso. Stevenson seems to feel himself duty bound, as a proper 19th century man of letters, to make sure his weird stories have rational explanations. Here, the "rational explanation" seems to take over almost completely near the end -- it can barely be said that he allows the situation to remain ambiguous.

Looking forward to Stevenson moving to the South Seas and dispensing with such tricks.

Merry Men...

I think he did a superb job of creating setting and mood, and established a lot of thematic tensions (familial duty; self-restraint versus s sort of Dionysian lust for personal gain; etc), and resolved the story very, very laboriously, and a very pedestrian manner.

Inspired first half; laborious and unfocused second half, with the possibility that he was being paid by the word, which is what ultimately motivated him to complete a very interesting, but ill-focused idea for a story.

I'm going to take a bit of a break from Stevenson now.

--Sawfish

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"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
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Sawfish Wrote:
> I'm going to take a bit of a break from Stevenson
> now.

... but you'll miss out on "The Isle of Voices". It's a hoot.

Platypus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish Wrote:
> > I'm going to take a bit of a break from
> Stevenson
> > now.
>
> ... but you'll miss out on "The Isle of Voices".
> It's a hoot.


Intended, or otherwise? :^)

--Sawfish

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"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
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This was my first reading of "The Merry Men." That attention to weather, location, and imaginative atmosphere engages my interest, and it's integral to the theme of contrast between the remote inner Hebrides location, with a tradition of scavenging shipwrecks, and the "alien" culture of the university-educated, urban narrator. (The young woman he wants to marry has also been educated away from her father's western fastness.) The story occurs, I take it, fairly late in the 18th century, just before the extinction of Jacobitism.

The story qualifies a Gothic fiction, in that seeming supernaturalism occurs that is eventually resolved naturalistically, and yet the atmosphere of folklore and all will linger in one's imagination, having been so well developed and because the ending is weird enough on its own terms, a case of fate overtaking the person who'd kept secret his crime, as he fled in terror from a black man.

Why "The Merry Men"? These rock formations are kept in view or in the background of our thoughts as we read, representing that wild locale and the sense of nature as perhaps sentient. I think Stevenson manages to convey both a sense of human smallness in the landscape without actually diminishing, depreciating the human as weird tale writers sometimes try to do.

What further thoughts on "The Merry Men" before we proceed to "The Isle of Voices"?

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This was my first reading of "The Merry Men."
> That attention to weather, location, and
> imaginative atmosphere engages my interest, and
> it's integral to the theme of contrast between the
> remote inner Hebrides location, with a tradition
> of scavenging shipwrecks, and the "alien" culture
> of the university-educated, urban narrator. (The
> young woman he wants to marry has also been
> educated away from her father's western fastness.)
> The story occurs, I take it, fairly late in the
> 18th century, just before the extinction of
> Jacobitism.
>
> The story qualifies a Gothic fiction, in that
> seeming supernaturalism occurs that is eventually
> resolved naturalistically, and yet the atmosphere
> of folklore and all will linger in one's
> imagination, having been so well developed and
> because the ending is weird enough on its own
> terms, a case of fate overtaking the person who'd
> kept secret his crime, as he fled in terror from a
> black man.
>
> Why "The Merry Men"? These rock formations are
> kept in view or in the background of our thoughts
> as we read, representing that wild locale and the
> sense of nature as perhaps sentient. I think
> Stevenson manages to convey both a sense of human
> smallness in the landscape without actually
> diminishing, depreciating the human as weird tale
> writers sometimes try to do.
>
> What further thoughts on "The Merry Men" before we
> proceed to "The Isle of Voices"?

I'm having a strange subjective response to the Stevenson works I've read for this thread.

I think he is a very talented at descriptive sections, but much less so with establishing a relatively complex character--at least at short story length.

His idea of resolution to me seems fairly labored, in that he works hard at manipulating plot elements to come to what is often, in my mind, an anti-climactic resolution that seems drawn out and forced.

He seems to possess the tools to write exception prose, but not the sensibilities. So in a way, he writes like a talented commercial hack.

Compare him to Arthur Conan Doyle or Kipling. Kipling was a tremendous talent who probably did not exercise sufficient control over the volume of his output--wrote too much sentimental and forced material.

Doyle seems like a very competent writer within certain bounds of talent. He seemed aware of those bounds and stuck within them pretty much. Colorful characters with consistent personality attributes.

What Stevenson seems to me to do well is to create a sort of moral tension between the superego and the id. This is what we saw with Uncle Gordon, and it's present as Jekyll and Hyde. He explored the same tension in Body Snatcher.

It is potentially a very powerful theme, if handled well.

--Sawfish

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"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
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I’m not prepared to say a lot about RLS’s achievement as far as literary analysis. I’ve read several of his books and liked them a lot.

(I think I hear coyotes!)

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’m not prepared to say a lot about RLS’s
> achievement as far as literary analysis. I’ve
> read several of his books and liked them a lot.
>
> (I think I hear coyotes!)


Are you sure it's not The Merry Men? ;^)

--Sawfish

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"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
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