Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > See this:
> >
> >
> [www.cbc.ca]
>
> >
> et-the-b-c-man-who-uses-body-modifying-technology-
>
> > to-enhance-physical-capabilities-1.4825085
> >
> > I've seen this, and more--much,much more--at
> the
> > HPL Film Festival in Portland, OR. 5 inch blued
> > steel needles that come thru the cheeks,
> emulating
> > cat whiskers.
> >
> > ...or something...
> >
> > In PDX I've seen people with their tongues
> > tattooed, the whites of the eyes, apparently.
> Wait
> > service people.
> >
>
> Modern version of punk rock. Rebels who want to
> chock and are desperate to acquire a unique
> identity, more than an attempt at beauty. And not
> really the rich, but investing most of what
> they've got, and letting the rest deteriorate.
> Parallel to this, collective society is being
> moved in an even more extreme direction, and I
> wouldn't be surprised if genus manipulations will
> eventually become mandatory, and calling oneself
> "normal" will be outlawed.

Well, yes. But I wasn't so much referring to these examples to see *who* would resort to extreme fashion statements so much as illustrating the extremes of fashion currently available.

But si far as the "tasteful" wealthy, have you even taken a close look at Nancy Pelosi or Cher?

>
> In Ballard's "Prima Belladonna" the insect eyes is
> perhaps something that truly means beauty among
> the rich and privileged, transcended deep into the
> culture, and enhances social status. It would mean
> that everything else in the culture is adapted
> along with it, making it perfectly normal and
> integrated. I would like to have a looking glass
> into a future like that.

The real point is that these people will spend any amount of money for anything that relieves their boredom--and there are those who make their livings catering to this.

Nor is it necessarily the height of fashion! It is even better to be marginally avant-garde--a trend-setter.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> But si far as the "tasteful" wealthy, have you
> even taken a close look at Nancy Pelosi or Cher?
>

I have seen Rachael Levine, the new minister of Health and Human Services.



> The real point is that these people will spend any
> amount of money for anything that relieves their
> boredom--and there are those who make their
> livings catering to this.
>
> Nor is it necessarily the height of fashion! It is
> even better to be marginally avant-garde--a
> trend-setter.

Yes, verily! You are right. There are many points of entrance to this. The avant-garde eccentrics have always liked to yell and rebel and make a scene. Personally, from my science fiction point of interest in this, and my main way of intellectually connecting, I am mostly fascinated with the idea if such eccentricities may transform our culture, and perspective on beauty, more fundamentally. Such a world would be much more bizarre than a few avant-gardes shouting in society.

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > But si far as the "tasteful" wealthy, have you
> > even taken a close look at Nancy Pelosi or
> Cher?
> >
>
> I have seen Rachael Levine, the new minister of
> Health and Human Services.

Sweet Jesus!!!

I wish you hadn't shown me this, Knygatin!

>
>
>
> > The real point is that these people will spend
> any
> > amount of money for anything that relieves
> their
> > boredom--and there are those who make their
> > livings catering to this.
> >
> > Nor is it necessarily the height of fashion! It
> is
> > even better to be marginally avant-garde--a
> > trend-setter.
>
> Yes, verily! You are right. There are many points
> of entrance to this. The avant-garde eccentrics
> have always liked to yell and rebel and make a
> scene. Personally, from my science fiction point
> of interest in this, and my main way of
> intellectually connecting, I am mostly fascinated
> with the idea if such eccentricities may transform
> our culture, and perspective on beauty, more
> fundamentally. Such a world would be much more
> bizarre than a few avant-gardes shouting in
> society.

Hear! Hear!

;^)

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > But si far as the "tasteful" wealthy, have you
> > even taken a close look at Nancy Pelosi or
> Cher?
> >
>
> I have seen Rachael Levine, the new minister of
> Health and Human Services.
>
>
>
> > The real point is that these people will spend
> any
> > amount of money for anything that relieves
> their
> > boredom--and there are those who make their
> > livings catering to this.
> >
> > Nor is it necessarily the height of fashion! It
> is
> > even better to be marginally avant-garde--a
> > trend-setter.
>
> Yes, verily! You are right. There are many points
> of entrance to this. The avant-garde eccentrics
> have always liked to yell and rebel and make a
> scene. Personally, from my science fiction point
> of interest in this, and my main way of
> intellectually connecting, I am mostly fascinated
> with the idea if such eccentricities may transform
> our culture, and perspective on beauty, more
> fundamentally. Such a world would be much more
> bizarre than a few avant-gardes shouting in
> society.


I believe that beauty is a real thing, a true category of reality, but that other factors are liable to be involved also with people's responses to how other people look. These include social status, the desire for attention, the appetite for short-lived novelty, and more.

Stalking Cat is an example.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Because S. C. so well represents so much foolishness characteristic of our time, I think his visage should appear on our $500 bills. (McKinley's already got a mountain named after him.) Mr. Cat's appeal is likely to be particularly strong among people who have too much money for their own good already, and, on the other hand, it's unlikely young children would see his hideous face and have their imaginations blighted forever.

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Knygatin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sawfish Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >
> > > But si far as the "tasteful" wealthy, have
> you
> > > even taken a close look at Nancy Pelosi or
> > Cher?
> > >
> >
> > I have seen Rachael Levine, the new minister of
> > Health and Human Services.
> >
> >
> >
> > > The real point is that these people will
> spend
> > any
> > > amount of money for anything that relieves
> > their
> > > boredom--and there are those who make their
> > > livings catering to this.
> > >
> > > Nor is it necessarily the height of fashion!
> It
> > is
> > > even better to be marginally avant-garde--a
> > > trend-setter.
> >
> > Yes, verily! You are right. There are many
> points
> > of entrance to this. The avant-garde eccentrics
> > have always liked to yell and rebel and make a
> > scene. Personally, from my science fiction
> point
> > of interest in this, and my main way of
> > intellectually connecting, I am mostly
> fascinated
> > with the idea if such eccentricities may
> transform
> > our culture, and perspective on beauty, more
> > fundamentally. Such a world would be much more
> > bizarre than a few avant-gardes shouting in
> > society.
>
>
> I believe that beauty is a real thing, a true
> category of reality, but that other factors are
> liable to be involved also with people's responses
> to how other people look. These include social
> status, the desire for attention, the appetite for
> short-lived novelty, and more.
>
> Stalking Cat is an example.
>
> [en.wikipedia.org]
>
> Because S. C. so well represents so much
> foolishness characteristic of our time, I think
> his visage should appear on our $500 bills.
> (McKinley's already got a mountain named after
> him.) Mr. Cat's appeal is likely to be
> particularly strong among people who have too much
> money for their own good already, and, on the
> other hand, it's unlikely young children would see
> his hideous face and have their imaginations
> blighted forever.

NOOO!

Take it away!

(See what I mean about insect eyes, K? Small bananas, huh?)

Extra points, boys and girls:

Describe in moderate detail the kind of society in which Stalking Cat could survive for longer than two weeks.

Special cosideration is given if you can make a plausible explanantion of why, given that he/she/it has indeed survived longer than two week, S.C. also has a Wikipeia page.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I was doing a further comment about our most recent discussion, but I just can't bring myself to post it. The subject is too painful and decadent.

Instead I'll shortly comment Frank Herbert's Dune. I tried reading it in my upper teens, but couldn't possibly get into it, too much abstract political intrigue for my young mind to get its head around. Also I only had the ugly New English Library edition that didn't inspire me at all. But I read Dune as adult some 10 years ago, and found it very good, with interesting weird elements, and quite epic. Definitely worthwhile. This time around I had a much nicer edition, and that helped me to take the plunge. The book perfectly complements David Lynch's masterful film.

It’s always delightful to come across somebody else who appreciates that much-maligned movie. I saw a 70 mm exhibition of it in Amsterdam a couple of years ago and it was aesthetic bliss. I appreciate the book largely because of the movie, which I learned to appreciate as a kid largely because of the comic book. Culture finds all sorts of vectors for infecting us.

The novel eventually became one of my favourite books. Stylistically, it is atrocious, but I love how imaginative and eclectic it is. The appendix entitled “Terminology of the Imperium” is one of my favourite weird reads. Combine Honnete Ober Advancer Mercantiles indeed.

The movie manages to improve on Herbert’s execrable prose a great deal. Compare the simple, elegant opening line of the movie,

“A beginning is a very delicate time”,

to the monstrosity that opens the book:

“A beginning is the time for taking the most delicate care that the balances are correct”.

Yikes!

The National Lampoon parody Doon (1984) by Ellis Weiner does a terrific job skewering Herbert’s style:

Quote:

In the week before their departure to Arruckus, amid the hurly and the burly of the moving and the grooving, did an old woman come to planet Cowboydan to visit the mother-adult of the boy-child, Pall.
Her journey, via Schlepping Guild ’Ighliner, had been a difficult one. There had been turbulence in the Nether Region -- the Guild navigators had found it necessary, not only to fold space, but to trim it and shove it as well. She entered Castle Agamemnides in foul humor.
She was escorted into living room Agamemnides, where waited the Lady Jazzica, wife to the boy-child’s man-father, Duke Lotto Agamemnides.
“I would see the boy, Jazzica,” the crone rasped.
“I’ll ... fetch him, Your Revved-Uppedness,” Jazzica replied.
Jazzica curtseyed and left. As befitted her Boni Maroni training, she made optimum use of the walk to the boy’s bedroom to think about what was happening that very instant in the times of her life.
She comes to administer the Test, she thought. He is capable, my son, and should perform admirably. Yet even the capable are capable -- of failure!
This stabbed a single question unbidden at her consciousness. Has Pall applied to a backup school?
Jazzica sought desperately to conceal her fear, lest her son perceive it and grow thus himself likewise afraid like her, too. She called upon her Boni Maroni training in body- and mind-control, the dual and complimentary disciplines known as yogi-bear and yogi-berra, to master her roiled emotions, reinstate the rationality of calm.
She arrived at his door, knocked, was admitted, entered.
Pall sat at his desk, a filmbook open before him. Jazzica noted his eyes, with their eyebrows and lids and accompanying nose, mouth, and ears.
He is like his father in that, she thought.

Avoosl, thanks!

The ideas of "the living room Agamemnides", and having a back-up school really tickle me. Lots of other stuff, too.

Have you read National Lampoon's Bored of the Rings?

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, I found Bored of the Rings very amusing as well. I think it has more jokes than Doon that have aged poorly since it was written, because they were based on advertising slogans and the like, and Tolkien’s style is so bland it’s impossible to do a good pastiche of it, but one truly great joke always stuck with me:

Quote:

“For Arrowroot,” she said, “crown jewels,” and handed the surprised king a diamond-shaped pear and a plover’s egg the size of an emerald.

This is soon followed by this mystical elven song:

Quote:

“Dago, Dago, Lassi Lima rintintin
Yanqui unicycle ramar rotoroot
Telstar aloha saarinen cloret
Stassen camaro impala desoto?
Gardol oleo telephon lumumba!
Chappaqua havatampa muriel
U canleada horsta wata, bwana,
Butyu canna makit drinque!

Comsat melba rubaiyat nirvana
Garcia y vega hiawatha aloo.
O mithra, mithra, I fain wud lie doon!
Valdaree valdera, que sera, sirrah,
Honi soit la vache qui rit.
Honi soit la vache qui rit.”

“Honi soit la vache qui rit” -- LOL!

Refers to the laughing cow cheese morsels, or at least the cow image with the ear-ring, but I'm unsure of "Honi" part.

Reading quickly thru the rest, it's like a sort of collage of terminology that was instantly recognizable for college age kids of the time.

E.g., "Stassen camaro impala desoto?" is a senator and three American cars.

So you liked the idea that in a Lower Middle Earth tavern you could order an Orca Cola?

That the Boggies refer to normally sized people derisively as "biggers"?

:^)

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Honi soit qui mal y pense is the motto of the Order of the Garter.

I guess the “biggers” joke wouldn’t fly anymore nowadays, but screw political correctness. In my view, any joke that makes you laugh is a good joke and satire should be transgressive. I grew up on MAD Magazine, and even though their humour was usually quite mild, they made fun of everything and everyone, which is as it ought to be.

Same here, Avoosl.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Avoosl Wuthoqquan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The movie manages to improve on Herbert’s
> execrable prose a great deal. Compare the simple,
> elegant opening line of the movie,
>
> “A beginning is a very delicate time”,
>

AAAAHH! God!! The most beautiful and evocative opening of all films ever made, both visually and verbally! GOD! And then follows the pan over the sand dunes, with music that cannot be surpassed. And it goes on and on.

Likewise, Salem's Lot (1979), The Fog (1980), and Alien (1979), are movies that never grow old on me. Soo much soul.

I agree with you Avoosl. I also found the book weaker in some aspects, not as effective as Lynch's genius. And visual language is perhaps not Herbert's strongest talent either. (He was a journalist from the start, and they are often wordy without much fine-tuning ability.) But all the same, it has a lot of greatness.

K, I will assume that you've seen Mulholland Drive.

The narrative structure of the film, including initial framing, multiple POVs from unreliable sources anda bit of traditional objective omniscient, creates the kind of mental exercise that I really enjoy.

At the end, after viewing a few times and *really* watching, you can see the story emerge. It is that directed artistic ambiguity that is so rarely found, and so rewarding when you do happen upon it.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Multiple points of view...

I expect to give this novel

[en.wikipedia.org].

Instance of the Fingerpost a try before long. Isn't than an intriguing title? The book will be an interlibrary loan copy and so protected from being thrown at the wall if the author should be guilty of anachronisms. I hope good things. I've been delving into 17th-century history and literature for several years now (in my opinion a much more interesting century than Lovecraft's beloved 18th century).

--Oh, I see I wasn't posting on the Super Thread, where a tangent such as this might better belong; but the remark about multiple points of view made me think of this book, which I hope will turn up this week.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2 May 21 | 01:50PM by Dale Nelson.