Quote:

“Let’s deny this off-key band of […] anti-live-and-let live people. Let them die.”

The irony (or lack of it) is ab-so-lute-ly staggering. This is Hitler-level malice and craziness.

Here’s something else to make your blood boil:

[www.nytimes.com]

And now consider this:

[www.standard.co.uk]

Once upon a time, a liberal arts education was intended to enable students to tell bad poetry from good poetry. Now, it’s all about whether they agree with it. If they’d read Sidney’s seminal poetics (boo! rich white man! boo!), they would realise what nonsense they are being fed by their very well-paid, tenured, quoted-in-the-NYT and neither oppressed nor exploited elite teachers.

Quote:

the poet, he nothing affirmeth, and therefore never lieth

Reading these, Avoosl, it seems to me if we substitute "class" for "race" we are right back to the Marxist interpretation of history.

This is not to say that Marx was wrong in his analysis of the dynamics of class struggle, but ultimately the irony is "so what?". What can you find to replace it with that's stable and does not require external coercion?

Much the same, here, I suspect. Yep, white Europeans colonized and exploited as much as they could ever since those troublesome Norse, and probably further back, unrecorded. And Central Asians did the same, but less for colonization and more for rapine.

So what? Are you unhappy with the obvious benefits that accrued as natural consequences? Yes?

Then comes chaos and anarchy, I'm afraid, and if indeed you can foresee this (a big "if") and you think it fitting and proper, I wish you luck.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Avoosl Wuthoqquan Wrote:

> [www.standard.co.uk]
> ersity-students-remove-rudyard-kipling-poem-over-r
> acism-a3890901.html


These students -- most of whom probably know almost nothing about India, let alone Kipling -- would no doubt be quick to dismiss Nirad Chaudhuri's remark about Kim as being the "finest novel in the English language with an Indian theme," a work "great by any standards." But then they won't have heard of Nirad Chaudhuri, let alone have read his Autobiography of an Unknown Indian, which would complicate their notions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17 Jul 21 | 07:22PM by Dale Nelson.

Sawfish Wrote:

>white
> Europeans colonized and exploited as much as they
> could

I'm actually not prepared to assume that is true to that degree, particularly when Darwinian notions of racial evolutionary inferiority were not at hand, though inexcusable exploitation was done, without doubt. Rapaciousness was a key factor but the story is complicated by less reprehensible factors too (see Chaudhuri).

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Avoosl Wuthoqquan Wrote:
>
> >
> [www.standard.co.uk]
>
> >
> ersity-students-remove-rudyard-kipling-poem-over-r
>
> > acism-a3890901.html
>
>
> These students -- most of whom probably know
> almost nothing about India, let alone Kipling --
> would no doubt be quick to dismiss Nirad
> Chaudhuri's remark about Kim as being the "finest
> novel in the English language with an Indian
> theme," a work "great by any standards." But then
> they won't have heard of Nirad Chaudhuri, let
> alone have read his Autobiography of an Unknown
> Indian, which would complicate their notions.

"Don't complicate a perfectly clear issue by bringing in facts."

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The attitudes of such students reflect those of their professors and the things they were required to read (or, perhaps as likely, view).

Now, the thing about human psychology is that, if we start to realize that we were swindled, we may try to make out to ourselves that the product we bought is actually pretty good, and we haven't simply wasted our money and time........

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish Wrote:
>
> >white
> > Europeans colonized and exploited as much as
> they
> > could
>
> I'm actually not prepared to assume that is true
> to that degree, particularly when Darwinian
> notions of racial evolutionary inferiority were
> not at hand, though inexcusable exploitation was
> done, without doubt. Rapaciousness was a key
> factor but the story is complicated by less
> reprehensible factors too (see Chaudhuri).

I don't feel the need to ascribe an absolute and independent moral judgement to any of these historical trends/events.

It is pretty much the same as castigating an invasive species.

This view is not for everyone, however.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dale Nelson Wrote:
----------------------------------------------------
> These students -- most of whom probably know
> almost nothing about India, let alone Kipling --
> would no doubt be quick to dismiss Nirad
> Chaudhuri's remark about Kim as being the "finest
> novel in the English language with an Indian
> theme," a work "great by any standards." But then
> they won't have heard of Nirad Chaudhuri, let
> alone have read his Autobiography of an Unknown
> Indian, which would complicate their notions.

Literature students read? What quaint notions you have! :P

Around the turn of the century, some fellow students and I visited an American university, where we put on a performance of -- of all things -- Hamlet. The kind professor who hosted us there was eager to point out that our audience would be “drama students”, not “theater students” (which would have been actors, singers, dancers and the like).

I am not exaggerating when I tell you that this man had tears in his eyes when he told me: “The problem is, my students don’t read.”

This was some twenty years ago, when postmodernism was still largely limited (contained? quarantined?) to the academic world. “O, drama students? They don’t read.”

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The attitudes of such students reflect those of
> their professors and the things they were required
> to read (or, perhaps as likely, view).
>
> Now, the thing about human psychology is that, if
> we start to realize that we were swindled, we may
> try to make out to ourselves that the product we
> bought is actually pretty good, and we haven't
> simply wasted our money and time........

Yes, and this is why surveys are next to worthless. Better than nothing, perhaps, but not something to stake one's personal reputation on.

See "The Bradley Effect".

[en.wikipedia.org]

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[www.congress.gov]

If this bill doesn't eventually become law, some other bill of the same type might. Names that might suggest associations at odd with sociological consciousness can be replaced and names more aligned with the notions of the elite substituted.

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [www.congress.gov]
> 7hr4454ih.pdf
>
> If this bill doesn't eventually become law, some
> other bill of the same type might. Names that
> might suggest associations at odd with
> sociological consciousness can be replaced and
> names more aligned with the notions of the elite
> substituted.


The Self-Eradication of Cultural References Act of 2021

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There are quite a few people moving towards, or at least groping for, poetic consciousness and turning from sociological consciousness. That some are silly or naive and that some will fail doesn't invalidate the whole phenomenon. There are some genuine gleams of light here, for example:

[paulkingsnorth.substack.com]

Here's something from Colin Wilson's The Philosopher's Stone, written, I suppose, in the late 1960s or so. I liked this on page 128, where a character goes for a walk on a grey Christmas morning in the English countryside: "Even the greyness of the sky seemed inexpressibly beautiful, as if it were a benediction. I saw cottages across the fields with smoke rising from their chimneys, and heard the distant hoot of a train. Then I was suddenly aware that all over England, at this moment, kitchens were full of the smell of baked potatoes and stuffing and turkey, and pubs were full of men drinking unaccustomed spirits and feeling glad that life occasionally declares a truce. Then there was the thought that this world is probably one of the most beautiful in the solar system. Mercury is all white-hot rock; Venus is all heavy cloud, and the surface is too hot to support organic life. (Oddly enough, I had a clear intuition that there is life on Venus, but that it somehow floats in the atmosphere.) Mars is an icy desert with almost no atmosphere, and Jupiter is little more than a strange ball of gas. All barren – metallic, meteor-pitted rocks, revolving around the blank sun. And here we have trees and grass and rivers, and frost on cold mornings and dew on hot ones. And meanwhile, we live in a dirty, narrow claustrophobic life-world, arguing about politics and sexual freedom and the race problem."

Avoosl Wuthoqquan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > “Let’s deny this off-key band of […]
> anti-live-and-let live people. Let them die.”
>
>
> The irony (or lack of it) is ab-so-lute-ly
> staggering. This is Hitler-level malice and
> craziness.
>
> Here’s something else to make your blood boil:
>
> [www.nytimes.com]
> cs-greece-rome-whiteness.html
>

News from the progressive state of Oregon as the debauching of children and young people continues -- here with regard to graduation requirements.

[www.oregonlive.com]
> And now consider this:
>
> [www.standard.co.uk]
> ersity-students-remove-rudyard-kipling-poem-over-r
> acism-a3890901.html
>
> Once upon a time, a liberal arts education was
> intended to enable students to tell bad poetry
> from good poetry. Now, it’s all about whether
> they agree with it. If they’d read Sidney’s
> seminal poetics (boo! rich white man! boo!), they
> would realise what nonsense they are being fed by
> their very well-paid, tenured, quoted-in-the-NYT
> and neither oppressed nor exploited elite
> teachers.
>
>
> the poet, he nothing affirmeth, and therefore
> never lieth
>

[www.theamericanconservative.com]

The woman discussed in the linked piece seems to be a good example of a person whose inner life is devoured by sociological consciousness. Poor soul... truly one feels pity for her.

Conversely, growing some of one's one food is likely to conduce to poetic consciousness. Maybe one can "only" have a few plants in a window, not for food but as living things for the eye and hand.

I suspect it would also conduce to poetic consciousness rather than sociological consciousness to go to some place where one can sing old hymns. One wouldn't have to believe what the words say -- I am referring to the experience of singing with other people, singing unpretentious verses that people have kept singing partly from social habit (which might sometimes be a good in itself) but also because the tunes have pleased people for generations. Some of the hymns might be sentimental and we won't like them. (The example of that sort of thing that comes to mind is "In the Garden." I don't like the "spirituality" of this hymn nor do I like the tune but I respect it as a favorite that people have liked to sing for many years. It's a funeral favorite. OK, then I may, as it were, lower my cap even if I don't like the hymn.) But there are better ones too. For example, "Be Still, My Soul" -- the tune is from the great Sibelius's "Finlandia." The main point here is to sing with other people, sing old songs with simple melodies. These are quite different from the more rhythmic, aggressive recordings that you hear pulsating from cars driving by.

[hymnary.org]

Just a thought for what it might be worth.

Another good thing is to learn some constellations if your night skies permit you to see them. I like to be able to identify the brighter planets. Yesterday evening my wife and I went for a walk, and Venus was off in the west, and then we noticed Jupiter in the southeast.

[skyandtelescope.org]

Time for a walk under branches.