Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> No countries -- no patria, but rather a single
> World State (sounds Masonic, Knygatin??)
>

Yes. You would not imagine how deep and widespread this morass lies spread over Western society. How many of the world leaders and famous people do the sign of the horns.

>
> No private property -- No longer will a man's home
> be his castle, a refuge from intrusive government;
> perhaps the idea is that the State will be all in
> all
>
> Lennon does away with a huge amount of what has
> given most people's lives interest. Where is
> there room for poetic consciousness when there is
> no religion, no attachment to one's place, no
> family (?), no room for artists to work with their
> own materials (?) -- as seems implied by Lennon.
>

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> One of the chief areas in which poetic
> consciousness is manifest is with regard to the
> two sexes. I refer not only to paintings, dramas,
> poetry, law, etc. but to "small" details of daily
> life -- little courtesies, appreciative but
> respectful glances, etc.
>

That is beautiful.


Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> K, did you ever entertain the impulse to
> figuratively cut yourself free of the sluggish and
> corrupt flow of modern western culture?
>

Yes, to live on a boat. But THEY are working to get you, block and shut you off, even from far distant harbors - through the Global tool of the long and well planned corona narrative (uncovered EU documents reveal the restrictions now being implemented, were planned at least as early as 2018; in other words it is one big conspiracy).

It is still a good thing to learn some independence prepping.

"You would not imagine how deep and widespread this morass lies spread over Western society." Deduct one of the spreads. ;/ After all, grammar and proper speech is important.

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "You would not imagine how deep and widespread
> this morass lies spread over Western society."
> Deduct one of the spreads. ;/ After all, grammar
> and proper speech is important.


All friends here, no one cares... :^)

To that point, I recently resumed posting to other forums, and I'm immediately struck by the fact that very many posters out there are basically intellectually and/or argumentively dishonest.

There's also the daunting possibility that they don't understand the need to logically or factually back up claims that are presented not as anecdotal evidence, but as uncontested truths. So in other words, they need to acknowledge that the material they've presented is simply their opinion, presented as fact, or make at least some effort to provide credible support.

I don't find that here, which is great.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> There's also the daunting possibility that they
> don't understand the need to logically or
> factually back up claims that are presented not as
> anecdotal evidence, but as uncontested truths. So
> in other words, they need to acknowledge that the
> material they've presented is simply their
> opinion, presented as fact, or make at least some
> effort to provide credible support.
>

I am guilty of that as well. But if someone asks me for more details, I will do my best to provide it.

> Dale Nelson Wrote:

> > One of the chief areas in which poetic
> > consciousness is manifest is with regard to the
> > two sexes. I refer not only to paintings,
> dramas,
> > poetry, law, etc. but to "small" details of
> daily
> > life -- little courtesies, appreciative but
> > respectful glances, etc.
> >

Knygatin commented:

> That is beautiful.

The simple but complementary beauty of the sexes comprises one of the chief sources of creativity and vitality in social relations. These things constantly refresh our interest in life, our sense that the order of things is basically good. I'm not thinking of crass flirtation, exhibitionism, etc., but of an ordinary pervasive quality that people might not even be consciously aware of some of the time. I'm not thinking narrowly of the beauty of particularly good-looking males and females only. A good way to sense what I'm getting at might be to look at one of Bruegel's bustling canvases, such as his Peasant Dance:

[www.pieterbruegel.org]

This kind of complementarity helped people feel refreshed on a daily basis.

Now, by contrast, messing around with this wholesome relationship demoralizes people. It diminishes the good flavor of life. That is what our sociological consciousness-driven culture is doing. Life loses color, zest.

This is only one aspect of our situation.

In a sense, those who actively engage in sociological consciousness without compensatory periodic relief from poetic sensibilities chose voluntarily to wallow in self-induced misery.

How crazy is that, huh?

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I am guilty of that as well. But if someone asks
> me for more details, I will do my best to provide
> it.

That part, extending an opinion, is just fine. It's simple speculation among peers--stimulating.

But if asked for more, you don't try to shuck'n'jive your way around it, like the problem I'm describing.

It's a BIG difference, K.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Dale Nelson Wrote:
>
> > > One of the chief areas in which poetic
> > > consciousness is manifest is with regard to
> the
> > > two sexes. I refer not only to paintings,
> > dramas,
> > > poetry, law, etc. but to "small" details of
> > daily
> > > life -- little courtesies, appreciative but
> > > respectful glances, etc.
> > >
>
> Knygatin commented:
>
> > That is beautiful.
>
> The simple but complementary beauty of the sexes
> comprises one of the chief sources of creativity
> and vitality in social relations. These things
> constantly refresh our interest in life, our sense
> that the order of things is basically good. I'm
> not thinking of crass flirtation, exhibitionism,
> etc., but of an ordinary pervasive quality that
> people might not even be consciously aware of some of the time.

Well said, Kyngatin. Thinking of an everyday experience that bears this out, I was visiting a sister in New Hampshire a few years ago, and she took us to an old town library that had been converted into an art gallery. After viewing the many fine paintings there (at no charge), we were just leaving in my sister's car. At the last possible moment I looked out and saw a young woman seated behind the library, reading. She instinctively waved back at me. My sister, Virginia, was driving and noticed since I was riding shotgun. My wife was in the back seat, and probably noticed. The fleeting smile of that young lady was an acknowledgement of Poetic Consciousness, which all 4 felt and were feeling in those surroundings.

jkh

In supporting Dale's initial statement, I see that I attributed his further explanation to Kyngatin, sorry.

jkh

Your anecdote, Kipling, reminds me of a similar experience. There was probably nothing unusual about it except that I noticed it. Several years ago I was leaving the campus library (another library!). I didn't check out any books on that occasion but the young lady at the checkout counter and I exchanged a good-bye or something like that. And this very simple exchange across the divide of the sexes stood for me, as I reflected on it, for something very good.

To move to a different aspect of the poetic consciousness vs. sociological consciousness topic and the matter of sexuality -- I was thinking about the way happiness and unhappiness connected with man-woman relations is (obviously) such a great theme of literature, e.g. Anna Karenina. But my sense is that under the present sway of sociological consciousness, literature may have moved, not to accounts of men and women, their joys and sufferings, but to a focus on the solitary protagonist as this person "struggles" with this person's "gender identity" and so on. In other words, what has been, for literature, an endlessly fruitful matter for the imagination (including romantic triangles and so on as well as couples like Jane Eyre and Rochester), is becoming a matter of the individual in isolation, with the "supporting characters" relevant primarily as complications in someone's inner conflict (psychomachia) till gender identity issues are resolved for the time being at least. What a falling away from literary value. I imagine these dramas of the solitary person are largely propagandistic and sometimes autobiographical and "therapeutic" for the author. Fooey.

I'm relating just an impression here, by the way. Offhand I wouldn't be able to cite titles or authors. I see a lot of material about books as I look at things ranging from the Times Literary Supplement to Mike Glyer's File 770 on science fiction and fantasy fandom.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 3 Sep 21 | 05:57PM by Dale Nelson.

Dale Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your anecdote, Kipling, reminds me of a similar
> experience. There was probably nothing unusual
> about it except that I noticed it. Several years
> ago I was leaving the campus library (another
> library!). I didn't check out any books on that
> occasion but the young lady at the checkout
> counter and I exchanged a good-bye or something
> like that. And this very simple exchange across
> the divide of the sexes stood for me, as I
> reflected on it, for something very good.
>
> To move to a different aspect of the poetic
> consciousness vs. sociological consciousness topic
> and the matter of sexuality -- I was thinking
> about the way happiness and unhappiness connected
> with man-woman relations is (obviously) such a
> great theme of literature, e.g. Anna Karenina.
> But my sense is that under the present sway of
> sociological consciousness, literature may have
> moved, not to accounts of men and women, their
> joys and sufferings, but to a focus on the
> solitary protagonist as this person "struggles"
> with this person's "gender identity" and so on.
> In other words, what has been, for literature, an
> endlessly fruitful matter for the imagination
> (including romantic triangles and so on as well as
> couples like Jane Eyre and Rochester), is becoming
> a matter of the individual in isolation, with the
> "supporting characters" relevant primarily as
> complications in someone's inner conflict
> (psychomachia) till gender identity issues are
> resolved for the time being at least. What a
> falling away from literary value. I imagine these
> dramas of the solitary person are largely
> propagandistic and sometimes autobiographical and
> "therapeutic" for the author. Fooey.
>
> I'm relating just an impression here, by the way.
> Offhand I wouldn't be able to cite titles or
> authors. I see a lot of material about books as I
> look at things ranging from the Times Literary
> Supplement to Mike Glyer's File 770 on science
> fiction and fantasy fandom.


To this point, as I've mentioned before, consider how male/female realtionships are handled in recent pop or alternative music genres, if addressed at all.

Try to find a song like Bacharat's The Look of Love.

Good luck with that...

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Knygatin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I am guilty of that as well. But if someone asks
> > me for more details, I will do my best to provide it.
>
> That part, extending an opinion, is just fine.
> It's simple speculation among peers--stimulating.
>
> But if asked for more, you don't try to
> shuck'n'jive your way around it, like the problem
> I'm describing.
>
> It's a BIG difference, K.

The brains of the "social consciousness"-minded are seriously messed up. They lack the sensitivity of the poetic to see how ill they are behaving.

Dale, you enhanced the description of the subtle 'electricity' between man and woman, the male and female principles, and made it even more beautiful. I will simply savor it.

That painting by Bruegel has been one of my favorites for many years. The simple peasants' lively country dance, relieving and exalting their nerves from the daily chores in the fields and forge, man and woman in wholly unity, ... the musicians stepping in to do their work. The full painting also portrays several different characters from the complexity of life. Painted by one of the great Masters.

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dale, you enhanced the description of the subtle
> 'electricity' between man and woman, the male and
> female principles, and made it even more
> beautiful. I will simply savor it.
>
> That painting by Bruegel has been one of my
> favorites for many years. The simple peasants'
> lively country dance, relieving and exalting their
> nerves from the daily chores in the fields and
> forge, man and woman in wholly unity, ... the
> musicians stepping in to do their work. The full
> painting also portrays several different
> characters from the complexity of life. Painted by
> one of the great Masters.

Hah! Let's play a game...

If you were to characterize your taste in *all* of the arts by selecting a single painter, whose works tend to utilize the techniques that most consistently appeal to your poetic consciousness, who would that painter be?

I'll start.

Caravaggio

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I like the miscellany best.