Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 10050 Ceilo Drive. ... it's easy to study Google maps and
> old property records back to the first owner.
>

> This is just as mind-bending as the midnight
> corral in Mulholland Drive.

Wasn't that a horse track? Surely there are people in LA who enjoy horse back riding in close quarters.

>
> I do residential real estate as a sideline, and
> have for years. I like individual pieces of real
> estate in the same way that some posters here like
> certain editions of books. So looking at photos
> taken from the old the candid photos from the
> front of the house gave a sense of floating over
> the Sunset/Santa Monica corridor above Beverly
> Hills.
>
> It was like a piece of personal paradise in the
> sky, isolated, private. The house was not
> sumptuous by any means--it was a simple
> ranch-style, maybe 2500 sq ft., but done by an
> architect so it was at least not a cookie-cutter.
>

It was a beautiful estate. A sumptuous version of "The Strange High House in the Mist".

Some of Smith's stories may also have attraction for architectural reasons. "The Double Shadow" for instance, an excellent example of prehistory California, in an outpost from Atlantis.

Perhaps you've had subscriptions to Architectural Digest and other magazines? Perhaps you can even help me locate a particular issue I saw in the 1980s but can't find again. It had a photo article about the private house of an interior decorator (who also designed Johnny Carson's home). The house was in Spanish style, the interior furnishing mostly done in different shades of browns and sands, with orchids in wicker pots on the tables, and big pots with palms in the courtyard. The most easily recognizable feature were two huge pieces of amethyst stones, one standing in the hall and the other in a back room.

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 10050 Ceilo Drive. ... it's easy to study Google
> maps and
> > old property records back to the first owner.
> >
>
> > This is just as mind-bending as the midnight
> > corral in Mulholland Drive.
>
> Wasn't that a horse track? Surely there are people
> in LA who enjoy horse back riding in close
> quarters.

Plausibly, but it doesn't change the fact that you can ride horses in a semi-wild setting within .5 miles Rodeo Dr.

This is one of the things that's really interesting about LA. I've *felt* it ever since I was a little kid visiting it, saw Randy's Donuts, and had my mind blown forever. The sheer excessiveness of it, and the unexpected juxtapositions.

The huge stacks of bulldozed orange trees you could see from the Disneyland parking lot back when it first opened. I mean, I *grew up* on an orange grove! To see them uprooted en masse was very strange--not disturbing, but disorienting. something REALLY BIG was happening, you could tell...

Then, if you're read Nathanial West's Day of the Locust, and there is a stage extra cowboy and a Mexcan who have a "camp" not far up the hill behind the var/Glower area, and this has been whammo, right near Grauman's Chinese since forever.

Very strange juxtaposition. Perhaps it does not affect most people the way it does me.

>
> >
> > I do residential real estate as a sideline, and
> > have for years. I like individual pieces of
> real
> > estate in the same way that some posters here
> like
> > certain editions of books. So looking at photos
> > taken from the old the candid photos from the
> > front of the house gave a sense of floating
> over
> > the Sunset/Santa Monica corridor above Beverly
> > Hills.
> >
> > It was like a piece of personal paradise in the
> > sky, isolated, private. The house was not
> > sumptuous by any means--it was a simple
> > ranch-style, maybe 2500 sq ft., but done by an
> > architect so it was at least not a
> cookie-cutter.
> >
>
> It was a beautiful estate. A sumptuous version of
> "The Strange High House in the Mist".

Yes. In a sense this captures a part of it, for sure.

>
> Some of Smith's stories may also have attraction
> for architectural reasons. "The Double Shadow" for
> instance, an excellent example of prehistory
> California, in an outpost from Atlantis.
>
> Perhaps you've had subscriptions to Architectural
> Digest and other magazines? Perhaps you can even
> help me locate a particular issue I saw in the
> 1980s but can't find again. It had a photo article
> about the private house of an interior decorator
> (who also designed Johnny Carson's home). The
> house was in Spanish style, the interior
> furnishing mostly done in different shades of
> browns and sands, with orchids in wicker pots on
> the tables, and big pots with palms in the
> courtyard. The most easily recognizable feature
> were two huge pieces of amethyst stones, one
> standing in the hall and the other in a back room.

Mostly I'm a "location man". It is a gut reaction to a location and how it's utilized. When you actually stand on a site it conveys a feeling, then combine it with how the dwelling was adapted to the lot, or vice-versa.

This can be a wooded hillside, or a corner lot in downtown.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Knygatin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Sawfish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > > 10050 Ceilo Drive. ... it's easy to study Google
> > > maps and old property records back to the first owner.
> > >
> > > It was like a piece of personal paradise in the
> > > sky, isolated, private. The house was not
> > > sumptuous by any means--it was a simple
> > > ranch-style, maybe 2500 sq ft., but done by an
> > > architect so it was at least not a cookie-cutter.
> > >
> >
> > It was a beautiful estate. A sumptuous version of
> > "The Strange High House in the Mist".
>
> Yes. In a sense this captures a part of it, for
> sure.
>

It also reminds me of a cozy house (personal living quarters, combined with operative inn for space travelers) in Jack Vance's great novel Star King, built along a natural shelf between the sea and a ridge, on an otherwise vacant planet. Jack Vance was also a competent engineer, who built his own house to fit his fancy, from a combination of fine woods and cemented natural rocks, on a hill in Oakland.

I think it is the story in Mulholland Drive that bowl people over. They are generally impressed by the film because they can't grasp it. But compared to Dune it is cinematically inferior. Some of the shots are really slipshod. Much of it is filmed like soap opera or regular TV drama. It doesn't exactly have the photographic refinement of an Ingmar Bergman or Sven Nykvist, to put it drastically.

Speaking of Bergman, I am curious to know what CAS's impression was of The Seventh Seal. I assume he saw it. He should have been impressed by it poetically, although its Scandinavian ascetic artistic tone may be far removed from his own preference of perspective.

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it is the story in Mulholland Drive that
> bowl people over. They are generally impressed by
> the film because they can't grasp it.

That's right: it's intellectually challenging not so much in content, but in narrative structure and expository.

> But compared
> to Dune it is cinematically inferior. Some of the
> shots are really slipshod. Much of it is filmed
> like soap opera or regular TV drama. It doesn't
> exactly have the photographic refinement of an
> Ingmar Bergman or Sven Nykvist, to put it
> drastically.

There is nothing special about the camera work in Mulholland Drive. It's good to keep in mind that the material from which it was composed was shot for TV release, without the visual scope available to a theatrical release.

>
> Speaking of Bergman, I am curious to know what
> CAS's impression was of The Seventh Seal. I assume
> he saw it. He should have been impressed by it
> poetically, although its Scandinavian ascetic
> artistic tone may be far removed from his own
> preference of perspective.

Conveniently, the thread has to do with a failure to connect with an artist, and Bergman is one for me.

I've been trying to watch his films since the mid/late 60s, in film classes, as well as causally, always with the underlying idea that I was *supposed* to like his work. But he is as fully dry and barren as Fellini is vibrant and playful.

To me, anyway.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Knygatin Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > > Sawfish Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > > > 10050 Ceilo Drive. ... it's easy to study
> Google
> > > > maps and old property records back to the
> first owner.
> > > >
> > > > It was like a piece of personal paradise in
> the
> > > > sky, isolated, private. The house was not
> > > > sumptuous by any means--it was a simple
> > > > ranch-style, maybe 2500 sq ft., but done by
> an
> > > > architect so it was at least not a
> cookie-cutter.
> > > >
> > >
> > > It was a beautiful estate. A sumptuous version
> of
> > > "The Strange High House in the Mist".
> >
> > Yes. In a sense this captures a part of it, for
> > sure.
> >
>
> It also reminds me of a cozy house (personal
> living quarters, combined with operative inn for
> space travelers) in Jack Vance's great novel Star
> King, built along a natural shelf between the sea
> and a ridge, on an otherwise vacant planet. Jack
> Vance was also a competent engineer, who built his
> own house to fit his fancy, from a combination of
> fine woods and cemented natural rocks, on a hill
> in Oakland.

You've had a good look at 10050 Cielo?

Just in case, here's a sort of walkthru video taken in 1993. It really gives a good idea of how it was located on the hillside, and also the nature of the construction. The color, landscaping, etc., was pretty much the same as in 1969.

You'll note that it had a guesthouse, but as near as I can tell from building permits, it was fairly crudely put-together expansion of a sort of BBQ gazebo maybe in the 50s. Also, I think the pool was not original, but may have been added in the late 40s/early 50s.

It's really messy on the inside. It was at that time rented to a musician, the 9 Inch Nails guy.

The kitchen, bathrooms, etc., were certainly nothing special, and the best you can say for the general level of construction quality is that a lot of natural materials were used, which helped to make a fairly mundane ranch-style house into something a bit better.

And of course there were large windows, to take advantage of the view.

[www.youtube.com]

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14 May 21 | 10:01AM by Sawfish.

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> You've had a good look at 10050 Cielo?
>

Yes, I have seen some old photos of it on duckduckgo or google. I like its overall rustic look. The pool was also very nice. Lovely spot. Cary Grant and wife had their honeymoon there, and other stars also used it.

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > You've had a good look at 10050 Cielo?
> >
>
> Yes, I have seen some old photos of it on
> duckduckgo or google. I like its overall rustic
> look. The pool was also very nice. Lovely spot.
> Cary Grant and wife had their honeymoon there, and
> other stars also used it.

I don't know much about it before Altobelli owned it (it was built for a French film star who was big in France, but never clicked here), but it looks to me like Altobelli ran it as a sort of vacation rental--just like you'd do a nice beach house--but it was for longer durations. He lived on and off in the guesthouse.

This is *exactly* the formula for how an investor in RE first gets started--buy a multi-tenant property and try to rent out the best parts for cashflow. Then lever up at any solid opportunity. Soon, the income properties are entirely independent--you live elsewhere and rent out all of it for cashflow. Then multiple such income properties...

Many of the furnishings were about what you'd expect in a vacation rental. Comfortable, but nothing special.

Quite isolated on the hillside.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Quite isolated on the hillside.


Yes, a really really lovely place for living in seclusion. ... Except for Manson. But I guess nothing is perfect. =/

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sawfish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Quite isolated on the hillside.
>
>
> Yes, a really really lovely place for living in
> seclusion. ... Except for Manson. But I guess
> nothing is perfect. =/

Yep.

He didn't even know them. He had a grudge against the previous tenant, he had been up there at least twice before, when the previous tenant was there.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sawfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Conveniently, the thread has to do with a failure
> to connect with an artist, and Bergman is one for
> me.
>
> I've been trying to watch his films since the
> mid/late 60s, in film classes, as well as
> causally, always with the underlying idea that I
> was *supposed* to like his work. But he is as
> fully dry and barren as Fellini is vibrant and
> playful.
>
> To me, anyway.


I especially like The Seventh Seal, The Magician, Hour of the Wolf, Wild Strawberries, and also Fanny & Alexander (although having fine moments, I find this last brassy family odyssey a bit too overwhelming and grand, being emotionally a sprawling and demanding watch).

I have tried to watch Fellini, likewise with the idea that I *should* like his films. But they leave me even more confused than Mulholland Drive. I don't understand what's going on. People with inscrutable, perplexed faces (either joyful or sad, I can't tell which), looking like they had some important purpose, but behaving erratically, walking in purposeless directions leading nowhere, connecting and following seemingly impulsive incomprehensible social community streams and sudden appearing spectacles, children running shouting in and out of courtyards, waving laundry. I have not been able to memorize any titles.

My impressions only.

Knygatin, I think that the earlier one abandons the idea that certain works of art should be liked, the better. In my view, you should always try to engage with a work of art with as open a mind as possible, and not be dismissive beforehand, but if it doesn’t speak to you -- so be it.

(I say this as a Dutchman who is completely indifferent to Vincent van Gogh’s work.)

If I were to take a bunch of young kids to a museum, I would say to them: “Boys and girls, today we are going to spend a few hours looking at pictures. And the fun thing is that you are allowed to think and feel and say anything you want about them. Anything! On one condition: you have to take a good long close look at them first.”

As for Fellini, I love the second half of his oeuvre, when he gets really weird. Satyricon to me is one of the great science-fiction (yes, really) movies, which as someone who appreciates the Dune movie and Jack Vance you may want to give another chance.

As for Bergman, I have seen quite a few of his films, an even though they are always exceptionally well made (his sound design alone is worth a monograph), I rarely if ever connect with what they have to say. The religious doubt that many of his characters experience is irrelevant to someone with my background and philosophy, and too often the moral of his work (especially Fanny & Alexander and The Magic Flute) seems to be along the lines of: get drunk, stay drunk, and make as many babies as possible. As an alcoholic who feels there are too many people in the world, I find it difficult to identify with that perspective.

That being said, I think one of the hallmarks of great art (like Van Gogh’s, perhaps) is that it is worth engaging with even if it doesn’t appeal to you. Knowing what you don’t like is as meaningful (and useful!) as knowing what you do like.

Quote:

AW:
As for Fellini, I love the second half of his oeuvre, when he gets really weird. Satyricon to me is one of the great science-fiction (yes, really) movies, which as someone who appreciates the Dune movie and Jack Vance you may want to give another chance.

I was first attracted to the 2nd half, starting at Juliette of the Spirits and the one that speaks to me most clearly is Amarcord, one of his more accessible films. There's a lot about how I tend to see life in that one.

The earlier stuff I came to later, and can recommend La Strada and Nights of Cabiria. These are great humanist works in the post war neorealism style.

Sentimentalism is always present in these--he's an Italian, after all!--but mixed with pathos and earthy humor.

I think I've seen most of his major stuff, but there's still quite a bit I haven't seen--probably never will.

I really liked Wurtmueller, too, when she was on that roll: Love and Anarchy, The Seduction of Mimi, Swept Away, 7 Beauties.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for your thoughts on this, Avoosl. I believe a combination of genetics and social background, very much shapes our taste in art; and that it pretty much is fixed. We can have an open mind, be curious, and learn from, ... but our intrinsic taste will be difficult to change.

Do you like Dario Argento too? I think Mario Bava is terrific (Black Sunday (1960), Black Sabbath (1963)). Moving a little further up north, how about French director François Truffaut? His Fahrenheit 451 (1966) is very interesting, although not as good as Bradbury's book.

Perhaps someone can help me identify a European film from the 1940's or 50's, in black and white. I saw it at a film festival when young, but have not been able to identify it since then. It is not a fantasy film, but one poetic moment a unicorn briefly appears from behind a hillock. I think it may be a French, Spanish, or possibly Italian film. For a while I thought it was by Jean Renoir, but having checked his films I think not.

Knygatin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for your thoughts on this, Avoosl. I
> believe a combination of genetics and social
> background, very much shapes our taste in art; and
> that it pretty much is fixed. We can have an open
> mind, be curious, and learn from, ... but our
> intrinsic taste will be difficult to change.
>
> Do you like Dario Argento too? I think Mario Bava
> is terrific (Black Sunday (1960), Black Sabbath
> (1963)).

They are sorta the Hammer Films/American International of Italy, as see them. Good cheap entertainment, though Suspira was something more.

> Moving a little further up north, how
> about French director François Truffaut? His
> Fahrenheit 451 (1966) is very interesting,
> although not as good as Bradbury's book.

With Oscar Werner in the lead, you can be sure it'll be mopey. It's like Truffaut dragged him over from Jules and Jim.

Someone like Rutger Hauer, however, would be different.

>
> Perhaps someone can help me identify a European
> film from the 1940's or 50's, in black and white.
> I saw it at a film festival when young, but have
> not been able to identify it since then. It is not
> a fantasy film, but one poetic moment a unicorn
> briefly appears from behind a hillock. I think it
> may be a French, Spanish, or possibly Italian
> film. For a while I thought it was by Jean Renoir,
> but having checked his films I think not.

--Sawfish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The food at the new restaurant is awful, but at least the portions are large."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~